Richard Bennett?

[benedictus2]

And there was no pride at all with Pope Leo?

It seems you completely missed the point. It was because of Luther’s pride that he ended up with a whole knew doctrine. If he had simply remained proud, refused to bow to the authorities, that would have been that. But no, he had to come up with his own doctrines. And the whole mess followed.

It showed a lackof trust in God. A lack of faith that God built this Church and will keep His promise not to let the gates of hell prevail. For all his profession of Sola Fide, he lacked very much the Fide.

 

[benedictus2]

Not true at all. Catholics continue to make false sweeping statements which are not true. I know many former protestants now Catholics on these message boards who are brutaly anti Protestant and prove they did not know their former faith.

Quite the contrary, they really knew their faith. Their anger was probably directed at being lied to.

Now I am not saying that all protestants lie, because some of them are totally convinced of the truth of what they believe. But some are out there to propagate lies. It is evident in the way the cut and paste and completely misquote and misrepresent Catholic Doctrine. Lorraine Boettner and Jack Chick and his ilk comes to mind.

One wonders why they needed to resort to lies. Didn’t Jesus say the devil is the father of lies?

 

[Hisalone]

Mixing yes, converting no. In the same way that Christ became sin to save us from sin.

There is nothing in creation that cannot be sanctified for all of creation is from God. And God saw that it was good.

You said that what was pagan was Christianized. A pagan can convert a pagan practice cannot be Cristianized.

 

[Hisalone]

It seems you completely missed the point. It was because of Luther’s pride that he ended up with a whole knew doctrine. If he had simply remained proud, refused to bow to the authorities, that would have been that. But no, he had to come up with his own doctrines. And the whole mess followed.

It showed a lackof trust in God. A lack of faith that God built this Church and will keep His promise not to let the gates of hell prevail. For all his profession of Sola Fide, he lacked very much the Fide.

No you are the one who missed the point.
Luther showed that the some doctrines of the Catholic Church were unbiblical. Catholic pride would not allow them to admit their error.

Again you use that verse in error. God never said His Church would not err.

 

[Hisalone]

Quite the contrary, they really knew their faith. Their anger was probably directed at being lied to.

Now I am not saying that all protestants lie, because some of them are totally convinced of the truth of what they believe. But some are out there to propagate lies. It is evident in the way the cut and paste and completely misquote and misrepresent Catholic Doctrine. Lorraine Boettner and Jack Chick and his ilk comes to mind.

One wonders why they needed to resort to lies. Didn’t Jesus say the devil is the father of lies?

Your changing up again.
First you say they were not angry now you say they are angry.
What is it?

 

[benedictus2]

You said that what was pagan was Christianized. A pagan can convert a pagan practice cannot be Cristianized.

Animal sacrifices were common before the Jews became the people of God. God continued this practice and even told Jews how to do it. Are you now saying that offering of sacrifices remained pagan when the Jews did them?

 

[benedictus2]

No you are the one who missed the point.
Luther showed that the some doctrines of the Catholic Church were unbiblical. Catholic pride would not allow them to admit their error.

Again you use that verse in error. God never said His Church would not err.

Nope. Luther was never able to show that some doctrines of the Church was Biblical. The doctrines that Luther came with on the other hand were unbiblical.

What Luther saw the abusive practice behind the doctrine. In the same way that honoring Mary is part and parcel of Catholic doctrine. Worshipping Mary is an abuse of that doctrine and sadly some Catholics do verge on that. The doctrine itself is not in error.

God said He will not let the gates of hell to prevail against it and that He will send her the Holy Spirit to guide her into all truth.

Either you believe Jesus said that or you do not.

 

[benedictus2]

Your changing up again.
First you say they were not angry now you say they are angry.
What is it?

I did not say that they were not angry. However what I am saying here is that IF they were angry then the source of that anger would probably because they were lied to.

If you know you have been lied to for so many years, then you have cause to be angry.

 

[Hisalone]

Animal sacrifices were common before the Jews became the people of God. God continued this practice and even told Jews how to do it. Are you now saying that offering of sacrifices remained pagan when the Jews did them?

Animal sacrifices were commanded by God.
Statues, icons, praying with beads were not.

 

[Hisalone]

I did not say that they were not angry. However what I am saying here is that IF they were angry then the source of that anger would probably because they were lied to.

If you know you have been lied to for so many years, then you have cause to be angry.

Is it possible that ex Catholics belive they were lied to by Rome?

 

[Hisalone]

Nope. Luther was never able to show that some doctrines of the Church was Biblical. The doctrines that Luther came with on the other hand were unbiblical.

What Luther saw the abusive practice behind the doctrine. In the same way that honoring Mary is part and parcel of Catholic doctrine. Worshipping Mary is an abuse of that doctrine and sadly some Catholics do verge on that. The doctrine itself is not in error.

God said He will not let the gates of hell to prevail against it and that He will send her the Holy Spirit to guide her into all truth.

Either you believe Jesus said that or you do not.

A Catholic theologian teaching at a Catholic university did not know the doctrines of Catholicism. I dont buy that.

 

[benedictus2]

A Catholic theologian teaching at a Catholic university did not know the doctrines of Catholicism. I dont buy that.

That was not quite what the point was. Luther indeed knew Catholic doctrine but he disagreed with Catholic doctrine. In this he thought he knew better than all those theologians, Church Fathers and Doctors who have gone before him. That is the height of pride, to think that he (singularly) knew better than all those holy men and wise men.

And this kind of thinking is what pervades protestantism today. That is why denomation keep sprouting here there and every where as two bit pastors decide for themselves to interpret the Bible in the way they please and start a church.

 

[benedictus2]

Animal sacrifices were commanded by God.
Statues, icons, praying with beads were not.

You miss the point again. You were saying that you cannot sanctify something that is a pagan practice. I just proved to you that you can by giving you the example of animal sacrifices.

 

[benedictus2]

Is it possible that ex Catholics belive they were lied to by Rome?

That is more than possible. As a matter of fact I think a lot of them did. But the thing is, if they did a little investigation, they would actually find that they were being told the truth, it’s just that they never understood what the Catholic church taught.

This is the running theme in most ex-Catholics who came back to the church. Although I would hazard a guess that a lot of them left because of a moral teaching they did not want to follow.

The Catholic church holds her members to a greater accountability and higher standard of morality which in this day and age just goes against the “morals” of the world. It is not easy to be a true practicing Catholic. If one wants to be a commited Catholic, one cannot use the same justifications and rationalizations that other denominations use so that they can practice abortion, contraception, homosexuality.