Richard Dawkins to Atheist Rally: 'Show Contempt' for Faith, the Eucharist

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qui_est_ce said:
Fair enough. 🙂

Mr. Bozek has turned the Polish heritage parish into a nonCatholic parish. They give the Sacraments to gay, lesbian, openly cohabitating couples, divorced and remarried. It’s so radically changed that even the original dissenters want to come back to the Archdiocese.

It’s a very sad situation, because many of our Polish population (including our pastor and his family) has their heart there.
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It rings a bell. Isn’t that the parish where a court ruled that they owned the buildings and land?

Bozek did more than turn the parish into a non-Catholic parish. I’d be more comfortable with it if he simply went schismatic. We can deal with that.

But, it looks as though a free-for-all took place. He accomodated them, but what the H was with the parishioners?!! Polish-Americans tend to be more traditional in their worship and beliefs. Where did these dissenters all come from?? 😦 😦
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
It rings a bell. Isn’t that the parish where a court ruled that they owned the buildings and land?

Bozek did more than turn the parish into a non-Catholic parish. I’d be more comfortable with it if he simply went schismatic. We can deal with that.

But, it looks as though a free-for-all took place. He accomodated them, but what the H was with the parishioners?!! Polish-Americans tend to be more traditional in their worship and beliefs. Where did these dissenters all come from?? 😦 😦
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Oh, most of the Poles have left. Then-Archbishop Burke set up another church as a Polish “personal” parish for them.

Mr. Bozek has, ahem, a following.

And yes, a court ruled the parish owned it’s own buildings. This is being appealed by Arbshp Carlson.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
No need to name the names of the individuals, of course, but of the seminaries where the problem has been pervasive.
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Let’s start here:
Vatican to Check U.S. Seminaries on Gay Presence

move on to here:
The Catholic Church’s Secret Gay Cabal

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2011/07/0728_mv_pq1.jpg

Gays and The Seminary
**The schools that train U.S. priests require students to be chaste, but most allow them to be gay. A Vatican probe may change all that

…** Though they constitute just over 5 percent of the population, gay men may make up half the student body at the 76 high-school, college and graduate-level seminaries across the country, according to broad estimates. For decades Roman Catholic Church leaders have quietly reckoned with this surprising truth about seminary life. There is no rule against celibate gays as seminarians, theologians say. But for a church where priests preach that homosexuality is an “intrinsic evil,” it is at the least incongruous that so many would-be priests are gay.

Vatican: Gay `behavior’ in seminaries declines

Gay Seminary Issue
 
qui_est_ce said:
Oh, most of the Poles have left. Then-Archbishop Burke set up another church as a Polish “personal” parish for them.

Mr. Bozek has, ahem, a following.

And yes, a court ruled the parish owned it’s own buildings. This is being appealed by Arbshp Carlson.
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Wishing the Abp the best in his appeal. What more is there to say or do but to shake one’s head and pray for the return of sense to those of the “following”?
 
buffalo said:
There is no rule against celibate gays as seminarians, theologians say.
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I agree, the key word being celebate.
But for a church where priests preach that homosexuality is an “intrinsic evil,” it is at the least incongruous that so many would-be priests are gay.
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Agree. This ought not to have become the “norm.”
 
buffalo said:
Pope Benedict XVI has given his approval to a new Vatican policy document indicating that men with homosexual tendencies should not be ordained as Catholic priests.
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That’s a value judgment and Benediict certainly can set that as a rule for ordination. I nevertheless believe that celibate men, either homosexual or heterosexual, can be good priests.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
That’s a value judgment and Benediict certainly can set that as a rule for ordination. I nevertheless believe that celibate men, either homosexual or heterosexual, can be good priests.
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One issue is that of vocations. An effeminate priest makes it difficult for a masculine male to relate to. Masculinity is important to vocations.
 
buffalo said:
One issue is that of vocations. An effeminate priest makes it difficult for a masculine male to relate to. Masculinity is important to vocations.
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Huh? That’s stereotyping and a really prejudiced statement! 😦

Who said that all or even most homosexual men are effeminate? My wife’s first cousin, a homosexual, as are a few of his friends that I’ve met, is as masculine looking and acting as any heterosexual. Not all are “swishes” or tranvestite drag queens (a heterosexual failing more than homosexual BTW) And, there are some heterosexual men who act somewhat effeminately - “sissy boys” who may have been raised in a family with all girls or a dominant mother.

One can’t profile men that way. Is a tough-looking fellow with bulging muscles a heterosexual, for sure?
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
That’s a value judgment and Benediict certainly can set that as a rule for ordination. I nevertheless believe that celibate men, either homosexual or heterosexual, can be good priests.
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Well, technically, celibate, continent men are neither homosexual nor heterosexual. They are chaste, continent men. They aren’t “sexual” at all.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Well, technically, celibate, continent men are neither homosexual nor heterosexual. They are chaste, continent men. They aren’t “sexual” at all.
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Agreed. So, if seminarians are chaste and continent, then it ought not matter if they are homo- or heterosexual.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Agreed. So, if seminarians are chaste and continent, then it ought not matter if they are homo- or heterosexual.
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I agree. heterosexual men are subject to the same disordered lustful feelings as homosexual ones. Priests are called to be above it, to surrender that part of themselves to God.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
I agree. heterosexual men are subject to the same disordered lustful feelings as homosexual ones. Priests are called to be above it, to surrender that part of themselves to God.
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They are, but…There’s a Polish anti-clerical joke: A priest is a man whom everyone calls “Father,” except for his own children who call him “uncle.” 😃
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Huh? That’s stereotyping and a really prejudiced statement! 😦

Who said that all or even most homosexual men are effeminate? My wife’s first cousin, a homosexual, as are a few of his friends that I’ve met, is as masculine looking and acting as any heterosexual. Not all are “swishes” or tranvestite drag queens (a heterosexual failing more than homosexual BTW) And, there are some heterosexual men who act somewhat effeminately - “sissy boys” who may have been raised in a family with all girls or a dominant mother.

One can’t profile men that way. Is a tough-looking fellow with bulging muscles a heterosexual, for sure?
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**Priesthood and the Masculinity of Christ **

…The masculinity of Christ is crucial to his mission of remedying the effects of original sin.

Priestly Identity: Crisis and Renewal (Part 1)

WASHINGTON, D.C., MARCH 19, 2008 (Zenit.org).- A general crisis of authentic masculinity in society has also affected the priesthood as only “real men” can adequately fulfill the role of priest and pastor, says Father David Toups.

Father Toups, the associate director of the Secretariat of Clergy, Consecrated Life and Vocations of the U.S. episcopal conference, is the author of "Reclaiming Our Priestly Character."
 
buffalo said:
A general crisis of authentic masculinity in society has also affected the priesthood as only “real men” can adequately fulfill the role of priest and pastor, says Father David Toups.
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What is the definition of masculinity?

Looking and swearing like a lumberjack? Having the right sexual equipment? Having had sex with a woman or a number of women? Being tough? Toups is rather vague as to what a “Real man” is.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
What is the definition of masculinity?

Looking and swearing like a lumberjack? Having the right sexual equipment? Having had sex with a woman or a number of women? Being tough? Toups is rather vague as to what a “Real man” is.
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We can look to Christ.
 
Atheists bore me. If Catholicism is true, they’re the ones who should worry. If it’s not, who cares?
 
buffalo said:
Is your claim He is not a perfect example for men to aspire?
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Can not a homosexual man who is chaste and continent aspire to the same example as a heterosexual man? I believe such a man can. There’s nothing that makes a heterosexual man superior in that regard.

As it is now, a heterosexual man can be a lustful sinner, confess, be absolved, and aspire to the priesthood. No less should be the homosexual man’s lot if he so desires. I don’t want a heterosexual priest who can’t keep his eyes off women nor a homosexual doing the same towards another man.

Opposite sex attracted and same sex attracted men can both be good priests. I judge the individual without making a blanket condemnation.
 
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