Rick Santorum Thread

[oldcelt]

It’s a lot simpler than you make it . How much better would we all be if everyone abided by the three pronouncements on every US denominated coin :

1. Liberty - not equality , not egalite .
2. E Pluribus Unum - Out of ( or from ) many one , Not multiculturalism .
3. In God We Trust - not in secularism/materialism/positivism we trust .

You can embrace all three and still have lots of wiggle room to express yourself .

We certainly could…but whose vision of god would be all-uniting?

John

 

[Darryl1958]

We certainly could…but whose vision of god would be all-uniting?

John

The monotheistic vision.
God as creator of all, therefore partial to no one.
God who is outside of nature, the source and the ends of all that is good and excellent and worth striving for, from whence comes our unalienable rights.

 

[jwinch2]

The Bishop’s stance on illegal immigration is not part of the deposit of faith. Thus, as a faithful Catholic, he is free to disagree with it.

 

[raaucoin]

Yes because they usually only wave those flags on St. Patty’s day and NOLA entire culture has been Cajun, also a lot of Puerto Ricans fly the flag during their special parades…that’s not the point…none of those flag waivers would ever put those flags over favor of the American flag

When one group of immigrants are waving and saluting another flag at disrespect to the American flag that’s a clear lack of willingness to participate in America.

Now before you change the subject to “well PRs speak Spanish, and Cajuns French have ya gotsa problem wit dat?” No I don’t have a problem I know Italians who speak Italian, but when people are demanding bi-lingual education and others to know Spanish because many refuse to learn then that’s a clear lack of willingness to participate in America…None of your forefathers demanded America cater to their demands or disrespected the flag, why give the new one’s a pass?

No, NOLA’s entire culture has not been and is not Cajun.
No, my forefather’s did not demand America cater to any demands. We were perfectly contented to be left alone. It was the English speaking Americans that came in and demanded we give up our language. When my father who was 10 yrs. old was LEARNING English, he and his school mates were beaten for not speaking english. As were the boys in my mother’s school. I’m not looking to give anyone a pass on learning English or respecting the flag and what it stands for. But I am also not willing to “give a pass” to anyone who would rather assume that because a group of people continue to speak their native tongue it’s because “many do not want to learn” the language.In our parish we have a huge population of people whose first language is Spanish. They are working hard to learn English. As a Christian I prefer they have the opportunity to learn in a bi-lingual environment than have the crud kicked out of them for not learning. Perhaps if this were done in my father’s school instead of demanding that suddenly they just speak english, we as a Cajun people wouldn’t be losing so much of our language. Big deal! if we lose our language right? Well it is.

Rick Santorum and the Bishops on immigration is the topic of this thread. For my part in diverting from that topic I apologize to the OP and others who have specifically addressed that. I’ll end my diversion here.

 

[Elizabeth502]

In our parish we have a huge population of people whose first language is Spanish. They are working hard to learn English.

Except that this is hardly universally true in this country, especially in largely immigrant locales in which the dominant language, or languages, is/are not English. And that phenomenon was also true in late 19th century America which characterized large waves of immigration and in many cases low levels of English fluency & literacy (like today). Here is the difference, however: For any earlier-era immigrant to contribute fully to the country, it was necessary for them to learn English, not to be taught in public schools in their native tongue, not to have every document translated to them in their native tongue (as many as 14 such languages in some locations), etc. None of the latter encourages learning English.

It was once true (earlier era) that First Generation raised in this country was remarkably unlike – in literacy, in education, in job skills – what characterized their immigrant parents. This phenomenon is increasingly vanishing.

And when the immigration is illegal rather than legal, the control of the flow vanishes. The combination of massive numbers of non-English-speaking immigrants of particular national & linguistic origins, combined with the modern era’s catering to that linguistic-status-quo by governmental regulation, combined with economic conditions, geographically, which allow a completely non-English-speaking commercial base, results in low motivation to learn English and low quality of any such learning.

Rick Santorum and the Bishops on immigration is the topic of this thread.

Correct. (Not what happened to your grandfather.)

 

[chuckfrmvalyfrg]

We certainly could…but whose vision of god would be all-uniting?

John

I was going to respond , but then I saw Darryl 1958 's response . His response is fine with me . ( IOW , what he said ) .

Dennis Prager refers to those 3 pronouncements on every US coin as the " American Trinity " .

 

[austenbosten]

No, NOLA’s entire culture has not been and is not Cajun.
No, my forefather’s did not demand America cater to any demands. We were perfectly contented to be left alone. It was the English speaking Americans that came in and demanded we give up our language. When my father who was 10 yrs. old was LEARNING English, he and his school mates were beaten for not speaking english. As were the boys in my mother’s school. I’m not looking to give anyone a pass on learning English or respecting the flag and what it stands for. But I am also not willing to “give a pass” to anyone who would rather assume that because a group of people continue to speak their native tongue it’s because “many do not want to learn” the language.In our parish we have a huge population of people whose first language is Spanish. They are working hard to learn English. As a Christian I prefer they have the opportunity to learn in a bi-lingual environment than have the crud kicked out of them for not learning. Perhaps if this were done in my father’s school instead of demanding that suddenly they just speak english, we as a Cajun people wouldn’t be losing so much of our language. Big deal! if we lose our language right? Well it is.

Rick Santorum and the Bishops on immigration is the topic of this thread. For my part in diverting from that topic I apologize to the OP and others who have specifically addressed that. I’ll end my diversion here.

Except that this is hardly universally true in this country, especially in largely immigrant locales in which the dominant language, or languages, is/are not English. And that phenomenon was also true in late 19th century America which characterized large waves of immigration and in many cases low levels of English fluency & literacy (like today). Here is the difference, however: For any earlier-era immigrant to contribute fully to the country, it was necessary for them to learn English, not to be taught in public schools in their native tongue, not to have every document translated to them in their native tongue (as many as 14 such languages in some locations), etc. None of the latter encourages learning English.

It was once true (earlier era) that First Generation raised in this country was remarkably unlike – in literacy, in education, in job skills – what characterized their immigrant parents. This phenomenon is increasingly vanishing.

And when the immigration is illegal rather than legal, the control of the flow vanishes. The combination of massive numbers of non-English-speaking immigrants of particular national & linguistic origins, combined with the modern era’s catering to that linguistic-status-quo by governmental regulation, combined with economic conditions, geographically, which allow a completely non-English-speaking commercial base, results in low motivation to learn English and low quality of any such learning.

Correct. (Not what happened to your grandfather.)

I agree with Elizabeth502. I think many American’s who are pro-illegal immigration or anti-assimilation really need to research the term Balkanization and how failure to have people assimilate into one culture leads to internal struggles and eventually war and horrendous crimes against humanity. This isn’t some backwoods racist “Oh I donts want no dang emmigrunts in my dang der dum counntree!” This is basic knowledge, if in a matter of just say 10 years the US became flushed with devout Moslem immigrants from the Mid-East to the point where they made up 20% of the population, do you know how much political disruption that would cause when one wants Sharia law and the other wants English law? Just look at Matthew

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 12:25[/BIBLEDRB]

I’ve said my piece can’t go any further. This is my argument and any further responses will just return to Matthew 12:25. I agree to disagree with raaucoin and agree to agree with Elizabeth502.

 

[irishpatrick]

Nothing I wrote was based on stereo-types only(my) real experiences of real cultures (plural) in different parts of the U.S. If culture is still defined as it was when I was studying Cultural Anthropology- then defining that culture that we ask folks to accept is very difficult. The culture I grew up in in South east louisiana is very different than the culture a friend of mine grew up in as an African American in Chicago which was a very different culture by the way than another black friend of ours who grew up on the bayous of Louisiana.

The fact is that we are a land of many cultures. And it’s ridiculous to ask someone to leave his or hers behind. But if we do then I think it’s valid to ask - what are we asking them to accept in terms of culture.

The fact that so many Americans (and this seems to include you, no disrespect) do not know what our culture is, becomes quite troubling for our nation.

The phrase “our culture” is actually quite simple: We believe in Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, we speak english as a people, we practice a faith in God, we believe that this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian ethics and morals (but we do not have Christian government), we embrace the United States Constitution, and we believe that every person should be free to make their own path through life without being inhibited by the state. We have historically held that the smaller the government, the better it is for the people, and the larger the government, the worse it is for the people. It is that simple, and because it is that simple, our culture is open to all religions, all peoples, all races, etc…yet in the end those many different people should be assimilating into the culture that they have chosen. More than anything, we hold freedom as a huge gift, because without freedom we cannot choose our own path and we cannot worship (or not) as we see fit. Through this, we the many become one, and we even made that the seal of our nation:

E pluribus unum … which means “out of many one.”

We also feel God is so important that we made a national motto of, “in God we trust!”

Public schools were created to teach those easy to learn cultural foundations…yet that has been nearly wholly lost in today’s world!

 

[HailHolyQueen90]

I agree with Rick Santorum.

I also find it nice he goes to Latin Mass, never knew that.

I wish he had a chance in this election, I really do… But it doesn’t look like it at all.

 

[austenbosten]

I agree with Rick Santorum.

I also find it nice he goes to Latin Mass, never knew that.

I wish he had a chance in this election, I really do… But it doesn’t look like it at all.

Well not with that stinkin’ thinkin’

You know Herman Cain supporters and Gingrich supporters had the exact same feeling…yet Cain was in #3 when he dropped out (or was beaten and dragged out by the Liberal-Media-Mafia) and Gingrich is #1 right now.

 

[irishpatrick]

I agree with Rick Santorum.

I also find it nice he goes to Latin Mass, never knew that.

I wish he had a chance in this election, I really do… But it doesn’t look like it at all.

Santorum, by far and away, is better than any other GOP candidate–he just is not a flamboyant personality like Obama or Gingrich, so people don’t support him for that simple reason. The vast majority of Americans desire some form of “cult of personality,” and Santorum just does not lend himself to that level of adoration.

Santorum is a strong Catholic, a very strong family man, is incredibly sound on the life abd marriage issues, is incredibly stong on liberty, he smaller government and a safe nation. No other GOP candidate is close to him–yet as it looks now, he has no chance because Catholics won’t even choose one of their own. Sadly.

Most people care how a person looks, and the person speaks, and not so much about what they actually stand for. I feel that will be the case once again during the 2012 elections, and since Obama has those attributes in abundance, he will likely be re-elected.

When Catholics get a person they do not want next year, they have no-one to blame, but themselves.

 

[HailHolyQueen90]

Most people care how a person looks, and the person speaks, and not so much about what they actually stand for.

True! This drives me crazy… I could only imagine if Chris Christie joined in, the ‘haha your a fatty’ bashing began even before he made a decision and during the time people wouldn’t take no as an answer.

So much for the looks don’t matter speech.

 

[Yerusalyim]

. No other GOP candidate is close to him–yet as it looks now, he has no chance because Catholics won’t even choose one of their own. Sadly.

When Catholics get a person they do not want next year, they have no-one to blame, but themselves.

I would never support a candidate just because they were Catholic…that’s no better than an African American supporting Obama or Cain just because they share race.

I agree with Santorum’s statement. I’ve duly considered the Bishops’ position on the matter and reject it as misguided.

Having said that I prefer Cain to Santorum…Newt to Cain…and will whole heartedly support Romney if he wins the nomination. Santorum isn’t the worst in the field…and almost anyone would do a better job than Obama…except maybe Ron Paul.

 

[irishpatrick]

I would never support a candidate just because they were Catholic…that’s no better than an African American supporting Obama or Cain just because they share race.

I agree with Santorum’s statement. I’ve duly considered the Bishops’ position on the matter and reject it as misguided.

Having said that I prefer Cain to Santorum…Newt to Cain…and will whole heartedly support Romney if he wins the nomination. Santorum isn’t the worst in the field…and almost anyone would do a better job than Obama…except maybe Ron Paul.

I never said that anyone should vote for Santorum just because he is Catholic, after all, Nancy Pelosi is also Catrholic, and so is Joe Biden and a host of others. My point is that Santorum is correct on the issues, AND he is a strong Catholic and strong family man. That combination makes him a no-brainer imo and I cannot understand why faithful Catholics cannot see that. My theory is it because most people want a “showy” celebrity type person in the office who also has an impressive speaking style and voice–they want the fluff stuff that means next to nothing in terms getting good things done for this nation.

In the end, Santorum is just too good a person for a nation that seems to place goodness about number 100 out of 100. Now, if Santorum had some mid-level scandals, or if he had a booming voice, etc., then people would take a look at him. Shallow choices lead to shallow results.

 

[QUEEN_MARY]

American culture is “e pluribus unum.” Our ancestors donated a part of themselves to make us what we are culturally. Our original ancestors were also illegal immigrants. Nobody showed a passport and visa to Massasoit or Squanto. However, times change. Yes, we need to change immigration law to be more reasonable and less bigoted. The bishops recognize that the furor about Latin American immigrants is not because they are illegal so much as they are Catholic (heaven help us) and have children (worse and worse). No we should not encourage or reward flouting the law. We should encourage our neighboring countries to help their own citizens. People do not generally immigrate unless things at home are pretty bad.

I have great respect for Rick Santorum. He is truly Catholic. He truly respects life. His beautiful Down Syndrome daughter is a big part of his family. He is not ashamed to be seen with her. His attendance at the Mass in Latin is one more proof that his faith comes before popularity. We need leadership like that. :tiphat:

 

[Leegal]

caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2011/12/12/santorum-in-iowa-catholic-bishops-are-wrong-on-immigration/

Thought I’d post this, I just found it too interesting not to. [He did not actually use the word wrong, as it turns out]

This is probably the most eye raising quote:

So, is it wise for Santorum to say something like this? I mean, I imagine this might lose some of the few voters he has. I’m sure some Catholics are supporting him, well doesn’t this lose some of that vote… openly criticizing the Bishops?

Anyways, the second most interesting part, is that the article confirms that Santorum and his family attend Latin Mass in Washington D.C. I mean, irregardless of his weak chances of winning the GOP nomination… you can’t say that about too many politicians I’d reckon. Probably even less on the national level.

The only other 2 I’d suspect of going to Latin Mass aren’t even politicians, they’re judges: Scalia and Alito. Anyways, we need him to be in government somewhere. I hope he gets appointed to some cabinet position. If that doesn’t happen, I hope he runs again for public office somewhere. We need good Catholics in government.

I’m sure it will lose him votes, and it should. There’s another thread, similar, about the Catholic Bishops and illegal immigration who are calling for just treatment for illegals – not an open border policy. It was posited that the Catholic Church uses illegal immigration for “recruitment” – not by Santorum, but by another. I suggest that Santorum read what the Bishops said before jumping to conclusions.

More Catholic bashing, and from one of our own. Should Catholics publicly oppose Catholic Bishops? I would not think this is an example of a Good Catholic to publicly critcize Bishops who are merely proposing fair treatment and a legal pathway to legal status, since the government doesn’t seem to take this issue seriously in any form. Is Santorum playing to the greater majority who may be non-Catholic, than to his faith?

By the way, Gingrich is Catholic having converted in 2009.

 

[Darryl1958]

…
In the end, Santorum is just too good a person for a nation that seems to place goodness about number 100 out of 100. Now, if Santorum had some mid-level scandals, or if he had a booming voice, etc., then people would take a look at him. Shallow choices lead to shallow results.

One could say he has been Savaged, with even Ron Paul joining into the choir of voices ready to skewer him over the issue of sexual morality.
It is not lack of looks or the voice that makes Santorum into an un-winnable candidate. One only needs to go to the number 1 google search of the name Santorum (and I would advise against it!!!) in order to see what has happened to Rick Santorum.

He is too good of a person for this world, which gains sustenance from the scum they lie in. He has principles for sure, but politics are the art of the possible, and he crossed that line.
The people of the United States of Sodom will never forget it. He has been politically crucified, and the mocking will go on as long as his name is remembered.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorum_controversy_regarding_homosexuality

 

[hsaw247]

It has been my thought for many years now that the bishops in Mexico need to become more active in bringing about reforms there. Most of these people would much rather fix the problems at home so they don’t need to emmigrate. They love their culture, their country has many natural resources and a natural beauty that has been allowed to become so much rubbish. The people are warm, loving and happy for the most part. If the Church began a real process of reform using philosophies of some of the reformers like Avila, Ignatius, John of the Cross…maybe real change could start. Until that country is improved, all citizens there suffer. And we can’t take them all. And most wish they could stay at home!
If you have not seen the older movie (Romero?) about the bishop who was murdered while saying Mass because he felt that the poor deserved care desperately but the elite had control over the Church, economy, government…it’s a real eye opener.
When we read in the paper that a drug king-pin who had just flown by private jet from the baptism of his godson, was killed upon arrival, it makes you realize just how the world has no clue what a Christian country looks like (actually it’s hard to find any at all any more).
Our Lady of Guadalupe needs to work a miracle and bring her beloved people back to real Christianity at work. Then the immigration issue here would improve for both sides and there would be less tension between the two cultures.
One can only pray…Shall we start a tsunami of prayer???

 

[Pork_Roll]

The catechetical tradition also recalls that there are “sins that cry to heaven”: the blood of Abel,139 the sin of the Sodomites,140 the cry of the people oppressed in Egypt,141 the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan,142 injustice to the wage earner.143

I really like Rick but the cry of the foreigner is a sin that cries to heaven. Catholics should be very sensitive to how society treats foreigners/immigrants. This also potentially touches on injustice to the wage earner considering that illegals are paid lower compensation frequently than natives. The welfare system to me is a bigger problem and isn’t something catholics are obligated to support, despite what bishops say.

 

[Dan_Daly]

A few thoughts:

1. The problem of illegal immigration is not a simple one. Simply ignoring our borders won’t work. Simply building a wall won’t work. I think the primary thing to do is work to encourage reform…in the nations the illegals are coming from. If we didn’t prop up corrupt and abusive regimes in Mexico and elsewhere, perhaps those countries would improve and people would stop breaking the law to come here. The GOP talks tough on this issue, but the party establishment really doesn’t want to change the status quo. The money they get from business donors who want cheap labor means more to them. Immigration is sadly a campaign talking point (much like abortion) to rev up the base more than it is an issue they intend to tackle seriously if put into power.
2. Santorum has other issues, that keep me from voting for him. By far the largest is the fact he endorsed and campaigned for Arlen Spectre. He put aside his professed convictions to work for a pro-abortion, pro-gun control, pro-socialism man simply because at the time there was an (R) next to his name and he was the incumbant. It was a clear case of putting party power politics above principles and saving lives. I and many others in Pennsylvania and elsewhere were greatly disappointed. Before I could consider voting for the man, I would have to hear a serious response from him on this issue- why he did what he did, is he sorry, would he do it again? I am happy to hear he is attending the TLM.
3. I have to strongly disagree with those saying immigrants must “accept the culture” when they come here. Accepting the culture is why the Catholic Church is in such disarray in this nation. What is the American culture today- materialism, promiscuity,rebelliousness. The exact opposite of poverty, chastity, obedience. This nation started off Protestant and over the past half century has transformed into a pagan one. It’s a culture that says a mother has a basic human right to murder her own child and that marriage is a temporary arrangment of convenience. Why in the world should Catholics accept a pagan culture? We must not accept the culture. We must transform it.

Pax.