Rick Santorum Thread

[Cascadian]

Well, I know of only two moral issues that conservatives want permanently resolved at the federal level: ban abortion, define marriage as one man and one woman.

It’s a good intention, but unfortunately times have changed. There are increasing amounts of liberals in society and in the government even our own Church. The majority of Catholics voted for Obama last election. Even if a nationwide amendment passed, I doubt it would be a permanent solution. Even birth control used to be illegal, look how that turned out. Incidentally I don’t see as many campaigns for the criminalization of birth control as I see gay marriage. Maybe there will be a future where Catholics no longer really campaign for a ban of gay marriage either, because it’s just become so mainstream and apparently irreversible.

My point is leaving it up to the states would be better for the long term on these issues. At the state level, I think local norms will protect the issues longer than the people who control the federal government.

 

[irishpatrick]

It’s a good intention, but unfortunately times have changed. There are increasing amounts of liberals in society and in the government even our own Church. The majority of Catholics voted for Obama last election. Even if a nationwide amendment passed, I doubt it would be a permanent solution. Even birth control used to be illegal, look how that turned out. Incidentally I don’t see as many campaigns for the criminalization of birth control as I see gay marriage. Maybe there will be a future where Catholics no longer really campaign for a ban of gay marriage either, because it’s just become so mainstream and apparently irreversible.

My point is leaving it up to the states would be better for the long term on these issues. At the state level, I think local norms will protect the issues longer than the people who control the federal government.

I do not believe there are more liberals today. I am sure slavery looked permanent back in the day. We cannot ever stop trying.

Killing people (abortion), and killing the most important institution in any healthy society (marriage) are not things we should just watch happen.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

You mean Paul?

Sorry about that. Mind slip. Thanks.

 

[Cascadian]

I do not believe there are more liberals today. I am sure slavery looked permanent back in the day. We cannot ever stop trying.

Killing people (abortion), and killing the most important institution in any healthy society (marriage) are not things we should just watch happen.

I agree that slavery looked permanent at one time, but while were talking about the Federal Government stepping in to legislate morality, I don’t think slavery looked permanent by the time of the Civil War, the North, major European Powers, Mexico, and South American countries had already headed away from it. It’s time in the western world was ending. It’s like the opposite with social issues these days.

I just like yourself don’t think the abortion debate is going away anytime soon, there are even pro-life atheists out there, the immorality of it is rather blatant. That is one issue I think we can have more hope for than others.

Also I agree marriage (and the closely related sexual morality) is very important, yet we’ve sadly watched divorce become an accepted part of society, we’ve watched birth control and sodomy become legalized and likewise more accepted. It seems apparent what unfortunate direction the world is headed towards, and I think we simply ought to be pragmatic about it.

 

[irishpatrick]

I agree that slavery looked permanent at one time, but while were talking about the Federal Government stepping in to legislate morality, I don’t think slavery looked permanent by the time of the Civil War, the North, major European Powers, Mexico, and South American countries had already headed away from it. It’s time in the western world was ending. It’s like the opposite with social issues these days.

I just like yourself don’t think the abortion debate is going away anytime soon, there are even pro-life atheists out there, the immorality of it is rather blatant. That is one issue I think we can have more hope for than others.

Also I agree marriage (and the closely related sexual morality) is very important, yet we’ve sadly watched divorce become an accepted part of society, we’ve watched birth control and sodomy become legalized and likewise more accepted. It seems apparent what unfortunate direction the world is headed towards, and I think we simply ought to be pragmatic about it.

I agree, but we cannot stop trying.

 

[estesbob]

Looks like Santorum is starting to concern a lot of people. When the nonsense charges are filed you know he is considered a threat.

 

[pilots13]

jezebel.com/5873158/

Came across a link to this article on facebook. Maybe this has been discussed here before, my apologies if it has. I have no idea what all the facts and truths are surrounding this story. Honestly all i know is what this article says about it. But I felt it would be an interesting article for some banter here seeing how esteemed Santorum is around these parts. It does raise some questions about what is and what isn’t an abortion, how far would a ban go, and the age old politician’s addage “do what I say, not what I do”

 

[SamH]

Spam

 

[Cascadian]

I agree, but we cannot stop trying.

I absolutely agree but our attempts require prudence. For reasons I have noted, I believe aiming for leaving social issues to the states is more prudent than trying to get federal bans. Simply my best judgement.

 

[PJM]

=pilots13;8782361]jezebel.com/5873158/

Came across a link to this article on facebook. Maybe this has been discussed here before, my apologies if it has. I have no idea what all the facts and truths are surrounding this story. Honestly all i know is what this article says about it. But I felt it would be an interesting article for some banter here seeing how esteemed Santorum is around these parts. It does raise some questions about what is and what isn’t an abortion, how far would a ban go, and the age old politician’s addage “do what I say, not what I do”

BULL!

They Got Caine by lies; now that there is another contender they are affer Rick. Don’t BUY into this garbage. Mitt is another Obama trying to convience us he’s not!

God Bless,
Pat

 

[estesbob]

I absolutely agree but our attempts require prudence. For reasons I have noted, I believe aiming for leaving social issues to the states is more prudent than trying to get federal bans. Simply my best judgement.

Abortion is not a social issue. The right to life is the most basic human right, the right that all other rights, social or otherwise, flow from.

 

[DeniseNY]

I’m familiar with that site, and as such, I’m not clicking the link. I think they’ll write anything to make a conservative Republican look bad.

 

[lsbar]

Just thought I would jump in here… Rick Santorum is being supported by CatholicVote.com…

"*We’re proud to stand with Rick Santorum and we’re prepared to mobilize our grassroots movement to help secure him the GOP nomination, and ultimately win the White House.

Catholic voters – and all voters – are looking for a candidate who can successfully combine the principles of the dignity of life and the dignity of work. Rick Santorum understands better than any other candidate the profound link between the moral, cultural and economic principles foundational to the success of America.

After all, Rick Santorum is a man of honor, integrity, and authenticity. What you see is what you get. He has faithfully served the cause of life and marriage as an elected official and as a husband and father. And while no political candidate, or human being for that matter, is perfect, Rick Santorum’s baggage contains his clothes.

He is the kind of man we want as President.

And when men like this run for office, they need our help."
*
If you are interested in helping the people at Catholic Vote support Mr. Santorum, go to www.catholicvote.com

Abraham Lincoln spoke about responsibility…
“You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today.” Abraham Lincoln

 

[pilots13]

Here’s a link from the National Review Online about both their child that died at birth, and apparently some controversy Alan Colmes (who I think nothing of) has stirred up surrounding it.

nationalreview.com/articles/287095/santorum-s-pro-life-credibility-rich-lowry

I by no means posted that first link to bash Santorum or anything like that. I posted it more cause I was personally surprised by the article. I also know how important the abortion issue is to people here, and to Santorum. And it appears that he and his wife were put in one of those awful spots where pregnancy complications could cause the death of the child, the mother, or both, and the awful decision of how to handle it. I guess my question is, did they do what was right? Or don’t we know enough to make that call?

 

[Sonic]

jezebel.com/5873158/

Came across a link to this article on facebook. Maybe this has been discussed here before, my apologies if it has. I have no idea what all the facts and truths are surrounding this story. Honestly all i know is what this article says about it. But I felt it would be an interesting article for some banter here seeing how esteemed Santorum is around these parts. It does raise some questions about what is and what isn’t an abortion, how far would a ban go, and the age old politician’s addage “do what I say, not what I do”

Not a news article, and the source of this website is a blog that discusses a tabloid rumor. It’s gossip.

It is also one of the ugliest allegations I’ve seen lobbed at a presidential candidate, and crosses a line of acceptability. The loss of a child is hard on any mother, but to then turn such a grieved loss into a political weapon against Santorum is sickening. Shame shame shame to those who started the rumor!

 

[kubark]

A Rick Santorum nomination would all but gaurantee a win for Obama or the Democrat in 2012. He is a neoconservative interventionist (domestically and in terms of foreign policy) and regardless of how good his intentions are, he would destroy what little genuine constitutional, traditional conservatism is left in the Republican party.

The ironic thing is that Ron Paul, who is a Protestant, is actually more pro-life and more pro-constitution than Santorum, a Catholic. Santorum may be a smooth debater and may have found a way to pander to the Evangelical crowd, but Ron Paul has a voting record that speaks for itself and is actually the only Republican that is electable come the general election.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

What’s astonishing is how quickly this thread has morphed from Rick-Santorum-hates-the-Constitution to a cheerleading section for Ron Paul.

 

[Cascadian]

Abortion is not a social issue. The right to life is the most basic human right, the right that all other rights, social or otherwise, flow from.

You’re right. However within the context of US politics, it’s sadly become a political issue. Now in my participation as a citizen I’m going to look at what is more likely to save the most lives for the most amount of time, personally I think that means leaving it up to the states.

 

[Sonic]

Youtube.

Dislike!

The youtube link is not a news article and a possible violation of forum rules.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=630756

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=508814

On top of that, the video advertises an extremely biased website: SantorumExposed.com.

Santorum Exposed is a website run by The Lantern Project, which is run by openly gay millionaire Tim Gill.

Information on The Lantern Project at OpenSecrets.org:

opensecrets.org/outsidespending/detail.php?cmte=C00478420&cycle=2010

Complaint Filed Against The Lantern Project and Softer Voices:

http://www.democracy21.org/index.asp?Type=B_PR&SEC={98740A0D-BF8B-4C3E-82B5-7E50B46293AA}&DE={0AFD6532-C94A-46A8-9E7D-1C959CEB77EB}

The person running The Lantern Project:

Millionnaire Homosexual Tim Gill Commits More Than $200 Million to Pro-”Gay” Foundations, Political Campaigns

americansfortruth.com/2006/10/25/millionnaire-homosexual-tom-gill-commits-more-than-200-million-to-pro-gay-foundations-political-campaigns/

More on why Tim Gill is opposed to Rick Santorum…

Who is funding the coordinated attempt to subvert the Church’s teaching on homosexuality and marriage?

catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=15195

More on the controversy by homosexual activist Dan Savage to smear Rick Santorum’s image:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_for_%22santorum%22_neologism

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

A Rick Santorum nomination would all but gaurantee a win for Obama or the Democrat in 2012. He is a neoconservative interventionist (domestically and in terms of foreign policy) and regardless of how good his intentions are, he would destroy what little genuine constitutional, traditional conservatism is left in the Republican party.

The ironic thing is that Ron Paul, who is a Protestant, is actually more pro-life and more pro-constitution than Santorum, a Catholic. Santorum may be a smooth debater and may have found a way to pander to the Evangelical crowd, but Ron Paul has a voting record that speaks for itself and is actually the only Republican that is electable come the general election.

The thing is, Paul’s isolationist, non-interventionist policies are NOT in synch with a large portion of GOP voters-so much in fact, that it overrides any support he may have for his strong pro-life record. He is also considered too “anti-Israel” and “what Iran does is none of our business-including creating a nuclear bomb” for most GOP and even mainstream voters (Independent and Democrat alike).

As discussed upthread, also, Paul’s stance that Abortion should be left up to the States does not square well with ALL pro-life activists and voters.
Neither is his support of most drug legilization, as well. Among other things. Sorry to burst your bubble, but…NO.