Rick Santorum Thread

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When that politician does not then go on to say that the benefits accrued through the lower corporate taxes MUST redound to the benefit of society as a whole through adherence to the doctrines of solidarity and the common good; that the corporate owners and managers are stewards of the wealth created thereby, who bear an obligation in justice to be sure that wealth spreads to society as a whole; to the extent that politician does not say these things, he is speaking of not as an advocate of Catholic social doctrine, but rather as an Americanist, whereby individual liberty takes priority overall, often at the expense of society and the common good.
The problem is that these benefits always causes increases in wealth for all, in that capital investment makes labor much more valuable and secures higher wages and lower cost for consumer goods.

For greater elucidation of this concept, reference F.A. Harper’s essay “The Greatest Economic Charity”.

mises.org/daily/5706/The-Greatest-Economic-Charity
 
The problem is that these benefits always causes increases in wealth for all, in that capital investment makes labor much more valuable and secures higher wages and lower cost for consumer goods.

For greater elucidation of this concept, reference F.A. Harper’s essay “The Greatest Economic Charity”.

mises.org/daily/5706/The-Greatest-Economic-Charity
If you have to go into debt to pay for something, then it is not increasing “wealth for all”.

The ONLY way that borrowing money increases wealth is if the thing you buy with the borrowed money creates enough additional money to pay back the loan.

If you decide to open a machine shop in your garage to build temperature sensors because you have been designing, making and selling them from your spare bedroom and doing well, then borrowing money to buy some appropriate machinery for your garage may be a useful decision.

But borrowing money to give everyone “free” medical care, even though there are already more than adequate medical care facilities [and the free system has all kinds of gaps and holes in it and only duplicates (not very well) existing systems], then that borrowing does not increase “wealth for all”.
 
That’s dirty pool. You can’t say “I seriously doubt Jesus wants” in a debate where both sides have valid arguments for their claims.

The problem with forcing everyone to have insurance is the violation of free will. For instance, maybe the young man in his 20’s feels that his money would be better used investing and getting a good return such that he can secure for himself a comfortable life upon retirement. Maybe the father of a family of four needs the money to pay for food for his children instead of the not-as-pressing need to get insurance for his kids.

Furthermore, there is the issue of cost. Total coverage health insurance has a sinister component in that it makes prices skyrocket. Do you know the cost of a doctor visit? I only know the co-pay; I don’t know the actual cost. How much does surgery cost? Is it better to go to one hospital or another? Total coverage insurance used to be a very rare thing; it was usually had by those who were in high-risk professions. What people had instead were catastrophic coverage plans where if they had a serious medical issue, the insurance would cover it. This method is superior because it allows us to see the prices for services since we would have to pay them out of pocket and would make insurance cheaper because we would only pay for the rare occurrence rather than everything.

For further reading on the healthcare system and the free market alternative, I recommend Dale Steinreich’s essay 100 Years of Medical Fascism.

mises.org/daily/4276
👍 I agree that its not fair to say, as some posters do, “Jesus wants us to have socialized medicine”. Its not a simple matter of “free healthcare for all” as liberals falsely claim.

Ishii
 
I think I may have confused my post. I meant that capital accumulation is the best way to increase the general welfare. Direct consumption spending (aka welfare) is a horrible way to actually fight poverty as it actually decreases capital consumption from where it would have been and as such decreases future wealth such that future poverty would actually be greater than it would have been.

Hopefully that third, run-on sentence makes sense. 😃
 
👍 I agree that its not fair to say, as some posters do, “Jesus wants us to have socialized medicine”. Its not a simple matter of “free healthcare for all” as liberals falsely claim.

Ishii
I pretty much ignore posts where people claim they know want Jesus wants to do.
 
I think I may have confused my post. I meant that capital accumulation is the best way to increase the general welfare. Direct consumption spending (aka welfare) is a horrible way to actually fight poverty as it actually decreases capital consumption from where it would have been and as such decreases future wealth such that future poverty would actually be greater than it would have been.

Hopefully that third, run-on sentence makes sense. 😃
And capital accumulation in the hands of more people rather than fewer is the best way to increase the general welfare - a rising tide lifts all boats. I work hard and do alright, although I am not wealthy by any stretch. But I don’t resent that there are those with millions or even billions. The liberals hate that - they don’t want any rich people, but want to consfiscate and “spread the wealth around” to use the words of our president.

Ishii
 
And capital accumulation in the hands of more people rather than fewer is the best way to increase the general welfare - a rising tide lifts all boats. I work hard and do alright, although I am not wealthy by any stretch. But I don’t resent that there are those with millions or even billions. The liberals hate that - they don’t want any rich people, but want to consfiscate and “spread the wealth around” to use the words of our president.

Ishii
Could you elaborate? The first sentence and the last seem contradictory to me.
 
Actually, Colmes apologized which is more than most liberals would do.

And actually Rick “did not play with the baby”. He explained his wife is a nurse that works with babies and situations like these, and they took the baby home to introduce him to the rest of the children. That way they would be able to come to terms that it was an actual human being, and it had died.

This is supposed to help the families “let go better” after they actually see the baby.

Some people may not agree with this, but I think in the right way this can be very helpful dealing with grief.

Santorum is a wonderful man, whether he makes the nomination or not. If he does, the liberal left will have a field day attacking his right to life attitudes and others. They’re already attacking him on his stance of birth control pills although he assured people that he wouldn’t ban them, even though he as a Catholic felt they were wrong.

God bless him!
 
Was watching the joyful jump of a baby bunny the other day, to be reminded again , how much joy God intends to bring to our world , esp. through children ,their natures , still not affected by the weight of sorrow of the valley of tears - which , in turn helping to mitigate our own sorrows !

We have science that shows how the smallest particle in the universe is vibratory energy , thus supporting the truth of how The Word created all and to again supporting the tecahing of how we are in One Body - thus, possibly , the 'vibrations ’ that our actions and words set off , can affect us all , as in One Body , with even never ending effects , that radiate out onto the whole universe - ? unless taken up, unto Him !

Having heard that the media tends to think how Santorum is considered as a zealot when it comes to abortion , let us hope that those who make such accusations , like most of the rest of the nation , need to recognise what is involved - how setting off discordant notes of pain and terror all around , there is a way it affects all and that our genuine efforts , to prevent same , can draw down the music of heaven !

True , ardent efforts , to help prevent unchaste behaviors , in environements that promote same , in schools , colleges etc ; need to be strongly dealt with too - no less timidly than laws that protect from bullying etc ; - for , in many instances , the negligence in these matters is sort of bullying of coersion through unchecked expectaions /desires !

Laws of mandating visual images education , in what takes place in abortion, along with
what can be the long term consequences , for all - which , in turn could help in many other areas , since abortions have high link to other serious health issues - breast cancers, depression , eating disorders etc : .

Such all out efforts could help to bring many people , into the job market , while, still cutting down long term health expenditure .

A candidate like Santorum , with a Catholic mind ( meaning compassionate concern , for all ) , as opposed to another , whose background possibly can have more of a condescending , even subtly antagonistc mind and heart towards most in the nation , which inturn could affect policies as well , at many levels !

One has to even wonder if , in the case of Pres. Obama ,if it is such deep leanings of the heart , from his background , that set the country off , in its present path !

Still , one is to respect him as authority , thus , unsure whether the media / Republicans need to be shrill about wanting to get rid off him, as opposed to wishing some one who can be better !

There can also be suggestions to cut down the greed and overwork that many people these days are forced to , in jobs that are higher paying ; a family man like Santorum , who has not had the experience of overambitions from elders , in the mission filed and such may be more genuine , in suggesting to the country , to have more humane , reasonable expectations , in all fields - esp. the finanace sector , where job sharing etc being more just , for the overall sitaution !

May The Spirit carry the groanings of many hearts , to bless us with a good Godly leader !
 
Pope Benedict:

“While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment,” he said. “There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia,” he added.

lifesitenews.com/news/pope-benedict-xvi-on-what-should-be-the-principal-focus-for-catholic-voters/
The Pope is saying that there may be a “diversity of opinion among Catholics” regarding the waging of JUST wars. Unjust wars are mortally sinful. There can be NO “diversity of opinion” regarding the waging of unjust wars. The reason that there CAN**** be a diversity of opinion regarding the waging of JUST wars is that just because a war is just, does not mean that we have to support it. But unjust wars can NEVER be supported. The Iraq War was clearly an unjust war and Ron Paul has demonstrated it. It is ironic that it takes a Protestant like Ron Paul to tell the truth to Catholics who should know better.
 
Could you elaborate? The first sentence and the last seem contradictory to me.
Sure - I probably didn’t word it very well. I think that the more people with access to investing and opportunity the better. Rather than the middle class being merely wage earners, wouldn’t it be better if they are also investors, atleast on some level? Allowing the middle class to become investors and have more opportunity is better than the Obama/leftist way of confiscating the wealth of others and redistributing.

Ishii
 
The Pope is saying that there may be a “diversity of opinion among Catholics” regarding the waging of JUST wars. Unjust wars are mortally sinful. There can be NO “diversity of opinion” regarding the waging of unjust wars. The reason that there CAN**** be a diversity of opinion regarding the waging of JUST wars is that just because a war is just, does not mean that we have to support it. But unjust wars can NEVER be supported. The Iraq War was clearly an unjust war and Ron Paul has demonstrated it. It is ironic that it takes a Protestant like Ron Paul to tell the truth to Catholics who should know better.
I respectfully disagree, I myself thought the pope meant that we can disagree on what constitutes a just war.
 
I respectfully disagree, I myself thought the pope meant that we can disagree on what constitutes a just war.
You are absolutely incorrect. There can be no disagreement on what constitutes a just war. The Catechism of the Catholic Church spells out the unchangeable criteria that must be met for a war to be considered “just.” Those criteria are black and white and are a matter of faith and morals. There can be no disagreement among Catholics over the Just War criteria that are clearly defined in the Catechism.

While there can be** no disagreement **“on what constitutes a just war,” there can be disagreement among Catholics over whether a just war must be waged.
 
Pope Benedict:

“While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment,” he said.
(emphasis mine)

He also said, as reported in the Life Site News article, that among the issues that take priority
is the
“protection of life in all its stages, from the first moment of conception until natural death.”
(emphasis mine)

Preface: (Yes, I realize that in Catholic moral teaching, the death penalty is not an intrinsic evil.)

The bold appears contradictory. Note I said “appears” not “is”.

Shouldn’t a qualifier have been added to the standard of protecting life in all its stages? :

“protection of [innocent] life in all its stages, from the first moment of conception until natural death”.

The qualifier makes all the difference, no? In that way, the reminder of the moral permissibility of recourse to the death penalty does not blatantly conflict with the exhortation to protect life until natural death.
 
Sure - I probably didn’t word it very well. I think that the more people with access to investing and opportunity the better. Rather than the middle class being merely wage earners, wouldn’t it be better if they are also investors, atleast on some level? Allowing the middle class to become investors and have more opportunity is better than the Obama/leftist way of confiscating the wealth of others and redistributing.

Ishii
But how would you go about doing that since the reason for the lack of investment of the poor and middle classes seems to be due to not their income level but rather their budgeting?
 
But how would you go about doing that since the reason for the lack of investment of the poor and middle classes seems to be due to not their income level but rather their budgeting?
I think that the word “budgeting” is over-used.

Budgeting implies … or suggests … planned spending.

But my observation has been that most spending by individuals is **not **planned.

Most spending is impulse. And “frivolous” … [Starbucks?] *

I can’t and have no right to tell other people how to spend their money.

But if they buy cigarettes and soda and expensive sneakers and jeans, then I don’t want to hear complaints about they have no money.

Everybody’s money is limited. Where they spend it is their free choice. I have friends who cry poor mouth, but have extremely expensive hobbies.

I have friends who get free medical care … the best, actually, at the clinic side of hospitals. But they didn’t like having to wait around. So, although poor, they came up with money for a “Cadillac” medical plan, that gets them into Park Avenue doctors offices just on a phone call.

Because of my rather impecunious upbringing, I tended to save a lot because I just didn’t know when money would come in or when an important expenditure would pop up.

**So, I tended to not spend much. **

Just one example: cars.

Cars are very expensive. Purchase, insurance, upkeep.

So, by defacto … I saved “a lot” … not really that much … but … the last car I got was free from a relative. It’s a 1994. The “other car” … the good car … is a 1990 … got it very used … and it had been rebuilt after a wreck. The last time I bought a new car was in 1967 … and it lasted until 1988 …

By avoiding expending money on things that rust and rot or become unfashionable or that are excruciatingly transitory … concert tickets and expensive vacations, for example … it allows me to put money into things that last a bit longer.

And by saving “a lot” … it allows me to invest.

And anybody can do that.

Yes, I get mocked a LOT … my parents accused me of having the first nickel I ever made. Which is not true. But, frugality allows me to be generous to others AND to invest in things that allow me to bridge over bad times.

There is a famous fellow who goes on about his “poverty” … one day he asked if I could give him a ride somewhere and I did and when he got in the car, he said, “this is an old car”. I just kind of winked at him. Someone stopped me and wanted me to sell him my old car and I gave him a price and he became angry with me. I said that my old car was not a hobby; it was transportation and if I gave him my car, I would have to go out and buy a replacement. [Besides, if he really wanted my old car, he could find one easily in PennySaver. He already had a nice car. He just wanted MY car. And he wanted it for free!]

Cars are very expensive ways to leak money away.

Does that make me a bad person?*
 
And that is accomplished by voting to raise the debt ceiling a number of times, voting for the bridge to nowhere, voting for medicare part D (which expanded entitlements), and voting for No Child Left Behind?
It was not a Bridge to ‘‘nowhere.’’ It was extravagant, but it had a purpose.

Rick Santorum has said voting for Medicare part D was a mistake because it expanded entitlements: washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/rick-santorum-and-medicare-last-ryan-backer-left-standing/2012/01/04/gIQAD7dOaP_blog.html

Club For Growth gives summaries if where each candidate stands on economic and fiscal issues.
Code:
Santorum has consistently supported broad-based tax cuts and opposed tax increases either by sponsoring key legislation or by casting votes on relevant bills.  Some high profile votes include:

    * Voted NO on the Clinton tax hike in 1993
    * Voted YES on the capital gains tax cut in 1997
    * Voted NO on a cigarette tax hike in 1998
    * Voted YES on repeal of the Alternative Minimum Tax in 1999
    * Voted YES on the 2001 Bush tax cuts
    * Voted YES to repeal the Death Tax in 2002
    * Voted YES to the 2003 Bush tax cuts
    * Voted YES to extend the Bush tax cuts in 2006
On spending:
Code:
On spending, Santorum has a mixed record and showed clear signs of varying his votes based on the election calendar.  In the 1990s, when he was only a freshman Senator, he was a leading author on the bill that completely overhauled the country’s welfare system.   He also voted for the Freedom to Farm Act in 1996 that started the process of ending direct farm subsidies.   When Congress decided that it couldn’t live up to that promise, it voted to re-establish the subsidies in 2002 with the Farm Security Act, a bill that Santorum rightly opposed.   He also voted for a balanced budget amendment and a line-item veto in 1995.

More recently, when he was out of Congress, Santorum opposed TARP , the stimulus , the auto bailout, and the Fannie-Freddie bailout.
Santorum had some deviations like No Child Left Behind and Medicare Part D, which Bush got most congressional Republicans to support. They note he had sold support for school choice, social security entitlement reform, and ‘mixed bag’ regulations. He voted no on the oppressive McCain-Feingold bill in 2002.

They note this:
Code:
One of those exceptions came in 2009, in the special election for Congress in New York’s 23rd district.  Santorum was the second high profile potential presidential candidate (Sarah Palin was the first) to endorse Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman over liberal Republican Dede Scozzafava.  This showed leadership for the limited government cause because of the timing of the endorsement, coming before establishment Republicans had figured out that Scozzafava was a losing candidate.
Newt Gingrich supported Scozzafava.

Club For Growth summarizes:
Code:
On the whole, Rick Santorum’s record on economic issues in the U.S. Senate was above average.  More precisely, it was quite strong in some areas and quite weak in others.  He has a strong record on taxes, and his leadership on welfare reform and Social Security was exemplary.  But his record also contains several very weak spots, including his active support of wasteful spending earmarks, his penchant for trade protectionism, and his willingness to support large government expansions like the Medicare prescription drug bill and the 2005 Highway Bill.
Some other positions:

2006 FreedomWorks – Positions 83%
2005 Americans for Tax Reform – Positions 95%
2005 FreedomWorks – Positions 63%
2005 National Taxpayers Union – Positions 69%
2004 Americans for Tax Reform – Positions 95%
2004 American Shareholders Association – Positions 90%
2004 National Taxpayers Union – Positions 83%

His ratings when he was in congress:

American Conservative Union — 88%
National Right to Life Committee — 100%
Americans for Tax Reform — 95%
National Tax Limitation Committee — 92%
U.S. Chamber of Commerce — 88%
League of Private Property Voters — 94%

These ratings show some conviction considering he was in a heavily Democrat district.

Jen Rub says Santorum was not a big government conservative.
 
Actually many people like the idea of not being denied for pre existing conditions or their children being able to remain on their healthcare plans longer. The Affordable Care Act hasn’t even been fully implememented yet for people to know whether it has been proven to be unpopular or not.

An example of a problem with states coming up with 50 different healthcare experiments is that for instance a sick person who Jesus wants us to take care of in one state might be denied coverage or not be able to obtain adequate, affordable care. While another person in a neighboring state by be cared for better. I seriously doubt Jesus wants such a 50 state solution on caring for the sick when He said to care for them.
I don’t think Jesus wants people to be forced to cover, in their insurance plan, contraception and abortion which is seen as an intrinsic evil by His Church.

Act does not need to be implemented for people to know it is wrong, when they see their premiums will go up etc. The fact that insurance companies will cover contraception in their plans. The fact that it coves abortion funding and infringes on religious conscience we can know now, we do not have to wait till it would be implemented to know. States can manage their own state experiments with healthcare, the experiments going on in Vermont and Massachusetts are not costing. I think the best way to find out solutions to the healthcare problem is state experimentation to find solutions. Massachusetts has proven that, RomneyCare has an 84% satisfaction rate.
 
The Pope is saying that there may be a “diversity of opinion among Catholics” regarding the waging of JUST wars. Unjust wars are mortally sinful. There can be NO “diversity of opinion” regarding the waging of unjust wars. The reason that there CAN**** be a diversity of opinion regarding the waging of JUST wars is that just because a war is just, does not mean that we have to support it. But unjust wars can NEVER be supported. The Iraq War was clearly an unjust war and Ron Paul has demonstrated it. It is ironic that it takes a Protestant like Ron Paul to tell the truth to Catholics who should know better.
There have been a diversity of opinion among Catholics about whether the Iraq war was a Just War. Some Catholic leaders have said no, other Catholics like this theologian have said the Iraq war was a Just War.
 
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