Roman Catholic Church = "Christ's One Church." Do you mean to exclude all other Christians by saying this?

[wlychan64]

here is something (a little long but thorough)

"NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH"
An Inquiry, Whether Salvation Can Be Had Without True Faith,
and out of the Communion of the Church of Christ

by Bishop George Hay of Scotland ( Who was a convert from Protestantism)[1729-1811],
From *THE SINCERE CHRISTIAN *

Bishop George Hay was one of the greatest Catholic teachers and apologists of the early 19th Century. His three famous books are The Sincere Christian, The Devout Christian, and *The Pious Christian * are unfortunately out of print. Bishop Hay was a formidable opponent of liberalism , and his works have received high praise from numerous Catholic bishops of the 19th Century. Paul Cardinal Cullen (Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin 1870’s ) said, “the learned Bishop’s writings display a great power of reasoning, and great critical acumen, while they supply an inexhaustible mine of erudition and Scriptural knowledge”.

This is taken from the concluding chapters *The Sincere Christian. * It is here that **Dr. bishop Hay demonstrates from Scripture that the Catholic Church is the one true Church, outside of which there is no salvation. **The bishop’s presentation is scrupulously methodical. He thoroughly explains one point, then employs it as a foundation for the next. This exhaustive treatise is desperately needed, especially in our age when the doctrinal truth on the one true Church of Christ is denied by a great multitude of Catholic laity, clergy and prelates.
http:.//www.catholictradition.org/Classics/salvation-text.htm

This may help. I apologize if anyone or myself has offended you in anyway. Religion goes to heart of a person and sometimes people’s passion get carried away.:blushing:

Thank you sir for referring me to the article by Bishop Hay
Please see the extract now
catholictradition.org/Classics/salvation-text.htm

I will read it this weekend.
I am not sure if I will be convinced but I will read it carefully

wlychan64

 

[duckbill]

Thank you sir for referring me to the article by Bishop Hay
Please see the extract now
catholictradition.org/Classics/salvation-text.htm

I will read it this weekend.
I am not sure if I will be convinced but I will read it carefully

wlychan64

I hope it helps. The style is a little old but it is full of scripture which you seem to like .
One suggestion is to fix the alignment if you print it. It is aligned center and aligned left would be easier to read

 

[Randy_Carson]

Don’t ever call me a heretic again. Do we have an understanding?

Mike-

It would be more accurate to say that you are not guilty of formal heresy, but that you are a material heretic since your beliefs are at odds with orthodox doctrine as taught by the Catholic Church. That probably doesn’t soften the blow, but this explanation from the Catechism of the Catholic Church might help:

**Wounds to unity **

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

 

[wlychan64]

mmmcounts, I am absolutely sure I never called you a heretic, or any one else for that matter.

What Benedict is saying is that heretics create new dogma and then try to propagate it. The Protestants of today, are not creating new dogma, merely following that which they have been taught. Therefore, they are guilty of following error, but not creating it, which would make them a heretic. We all recognize that Protestants are generally people of good faith that have simply been mislead without knowing it. They believe what they have been trained to believe. And in my readings, Benedict is fully sympathetic to anyone who tries to live according to God’s will as best he understands it. But we are all called to search for the truth and once you have been exposed to the full Doctrine of Faith available through the Catholic Church, you will have not choice but to convert if you have not hardened your heart… Keep learning and striving for the truth. You’ll see. I have confidence in you.

I have just read and reread all the arguments here. They are brain storming indeed.

I must be straight to the point that any accusation of the protestant church or protestanism has been wrong or following a wrong truth as heresy, etc cannot be correct and such accusation is nothing more than baised and ignorant with all my respect.

I was born in a protestant family but was educated in a Jesuit School for over 11 years. I cannot see how any reasonable catholic can make this accusation? Is the pope making this point now? Is he? are you sure? if this is his interpretation, I am afraid he is reverting the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) back to pre-Vatican II when the late Pope John helped to bring the RCC to the modern world and taking into acount the presence of other protestant and Eastern Churches.

I am considering to be a convert but I find many catholic are holding an inappropriate views againt the protestant churches that I must be very careful before I will make any step further though many of my catholic friends are very nice and faithful indeed

 

[wlychan64]

Stewart did not say you were “perverse”! Why are you taking names to yourself, blaming others, then running them off?

Catholicism is not “the Church of Rome”. That is an insulting remark. Catholicism is not “Roman”. But Catholicism is more special than all other groups of people in Christ’s universal truth, because she contains the fullness of the Truth, and because She is founded by Christ Himself. All the other “groups of people” were founded by men who had, to some extent or another, departed from the Apostolic Teaching.

The statement that the Roman Catholic Chuch is the church or the only church founded by Jesus Christ is over assertive and baised and to further allege that protestant churches are those people that start their own churches without following the apostolic teachings, are over whelmingly unjustified too.

Are you inviting me to go though the new testament to find out how in the history of the Roman Catholic Churches that have departed so much from the teachig of the bible? let me know please.

Sorry to be frank but your points, with all my respect, are unjustified.

 

[JRKH]

I have just read and reread all the arguments here. They are brain storming indeed.

I must be straight to the point that any accusation of the protestant church or protestanism has been wrong or following a wrong truth as heresy, etc cannot be correct and such accusation is nothing more than baised and ignorant with all my respect.

I have been only lightly following the arguments here but allow me a couple of comments.
The Term Protestant means one who protests. So the thing that one must do in determining whether a church is following heresy or not is to see where it’s roots are. You will find that those Churches called Protestant, as well as most who deny the protestant label, all trace their roots back to Catholicism.
Now, if we look at teh particular teachings and belief held by the two entities - Catholic and Protestant - we can see an interesting difference or two. Catholic Dogma is almost always arrived at over the course of many years, and determined by council. The Protestant Ideas of Scripture Alone, Invisibvle Church, Faith Alone etc are all ideas that come from certain individuals. Even the Canon of the Bible, set by council ca 400 AD and reaffirmed many times BEFORE the Protestatn reformation, was changed basically by one man - Martin Luther.
Finally, the great and noble expereiment of “Me and Thee and the KJV” (the individual, the holy spirit and the bible) has proven to be a dismal failure. If there were two or three different “Churches” suing SS that would be one thing, but the proliferation of independent churches, each with their own take on scripture, should be prrof enough that SS just doesn’t work.

Please note that I am not making any dig against individual non-catholics. I’ve known many who were better Christians than some “catholics” I’ve known. But what we are talking about here is whether the foundational principles of Protestantism are correct.

I was born in a protestant family but was educated in a Jesuit School for over 11 years. I cannot see how any reasonable catholic can make this accusation? Is the pope making this point now? Is he? are you sure? if this is his interpretation, I am afraid he is reverting the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) back to pre-Vatican II when the late Pope John helped to bring the RCC to the modern world and taking into acount the presence of other protestant and Eastern Churches.

I am considering to be a convert but I find many catholic are holding an inappropriate views againt the protestant churches that I must be very careful before I will make any step further though many of my catholic friends are very nice and faithful indeed

In one sense you are correct. Too many hold inappropriate views as relating to non-catholic Churches. Vatican II did seek to gain a new understanding and dialoge with our seperated brethren. However, this has unfortunately resulted a scattering of effort and missteps by well meaning people and in a swing too far away from the Biblical Truth of Christ establishing One Church and One Belief System and not a plethora of denominations who cannot agree.
The purpose of the outreach programs of Vat II really are intended, not to leave the Protestants alone, but to help bring them back into the Church through Love rather than threat.
The Church today is simply trying to reassert Her rightful authority and refocus her efforts in this realm. Only by reestablishing a clear and orthodox identity can the Church clearly demonstrate to our seperated brothers who we are and then invite them to look at ALL our similar beliefs.
I do hope you decide to come home. Please remember to base your decision on the teachings of the Church and not on the actions of individuals - even popes.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

The statement that the Roman Catholic Chuch is the church or the only church founded by Jesus Christ is over assertive and baised and to further allege that protestant churches are those people that start their own churches without following the apostolic teachings, are over whelmingly unjustified too.

Many Many Protestants know and recognize that the Catholic Church, along with the Orthodox, is the Church that is tracable back to Christ. Furthermore there can be no doubt that even the earliest Church saw it’s role as authoritative. Just read Acts 15:1-29.

Are you inviting me to go though the new testament to find out how in the history of the Roman Catholic Churches that have departed so much from the teachig of the bible? let me know please.

Sorry to be frank but your points, with all my respect, are unjustified.

I’m not sure if you are refering to teachings that depart from the Bible, or sinful actions by Church members that are unbiblical. I can only address the former.

Your statement simply points up the fundamental difference in perspective of the relationship of Church and Scripture. Coming from an SS background you place “church” below scripture. But how do you justify that when the NT scriptures had not been determined for the first 400 years of Christianity? How could the Church depart from Scriptural teaching when there was no canonized Christian Scripture?
In point of fact if you would like to see the first time The Church departed from Scripture you need only go to “The Bible”. As I pointed out above, read Acts 15:1-29. If the Church were to follow Scripture (OT as described by Paul) they would have sided with the Judaizers in Antioch and required that the Gentiles submit to mosaic law.

The fact is that Christ Founded a Church with Authority to Bind and loose. Mt 16:18-19.
He confirmed that authority in Mt 18:15-18, and the clear demonstration of the Church excersizing that authority is in the afforementioned Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15:1-29.
There is no such clear evidence to support the Protestant view of the “Body of believers” interpretation of “the church”.

I would invite you to engage in a little experiment with me -
Consider the situation at Antioch that prompted the Council of Jerusalem. The Church was divided into two camps. The Judaizers and the Gentiles, one side insisting on mosaic law and the other saying it is not necessary. It is obvious that these folks were pretty adament in their positions and, of course, the judaizers had “scripture” on their side, while the Gentiles had only Paul’s oral gospel teaching.
Now here is the question to ponder.
If the Church were set up as protestant churches today, how would this dispute been resolved? How could these two diametrically opposed views be resolved without a central authority arbieter?
Would the Church have remained united even one generation if the individual Churches could not look to the Authority of their Bishops and the Apostles?
Would the Church have remained united for even one generation if the Apostles and Bishops could not rely on their Christ Given Authority to make doctrinal decisions and expectation of the faithful complying?

Please, just consider the arguements going around in some of the protestant churches today about contraception, homesexuality, etc. Each side adament and each side citing Scripture. Are these not similar to Antioch? How are we they to resolve thse issues since they cannot, “Tell it to the Church” (Mt:18 15-18)?

Peace
James

 

[wlychan64]

I have been only lightly following the arguments here but allow me a couple of comments.
The Term Protestant means one who protests. So the thing that one must do in determining whether a church is following heresy or not is to see where it’s roots are. You will find that those Churches called Protestant, as well as most who deny the protestant label, all trace their roots back to Catholicism.
Now, if we look at teh particular teachings and belief held by the two entities - Catholic and Protestant - we can see an interesting difference or two. Catholic Dogma is almost always arrived at over the course of many years, and determined by council. The Protestant Ideas of Scripture Alone, Invisibvle Church, Faith Alone etc are all ideas that come from certain individuals. Even the Canon of the Bible, set by council ca 400 AD and reaffirmed many times BEFORE the Protestatn reformation, was changed basically by one man - Martin Luther.
Finally, the great and noble expereiment of “Me and Thee and the KJV” (the individual, the holy spirit and the bible) has proven to be a dismal failure. If there were two or three different “Churches” suing SS that would be one thing, but the proliferation of independent churches, each with their own take on scripture, should be prrof enough that SS just doesn’t work.

Please note that I am not making any dig against individual non-catholics. I’ve known many who were better Christians than some “catholics” I’ve known. But what we are talking about here is whether the foundational principles of Protestantism are correct.

In one sense you are correct. Too many hold inappropriate views as relating to non-catholic Churches. Vatican II did seek to gain a new understanding and dialoge with our seperated brethren. However, this has unfortunately resulted a scattering of effort and missteps by well meaning people and in a swing too far away from the Biblical Truth of Christ establishing One Church and One Belief System and not a plethora of denominations who cannot agree.
The purpose of the outreach programs of Vat II really are intended, not to leave the Protestants alone, but to help bring them back into the Church through Love rather than threat.
The Church today is simply trying to reassert Her rightful authority and refocus her efforts in this realm. Only by reestablishing a clear and orthodox identity can the Church clearly demonstrate to our seperated brothers who we are and then invite them to look at ALL our similar beliefs.
I do hope you decide to come home. Please remember to base your decision on the teachings of the Church and not on the actions of individuals - even popes.

Peace
James

Dear Sir,

Thank you very much for your views.

Although I am not fully convinced, I feel your sincerity to look at the matter at a broaden prospective with a view to unite other christian bodies together with the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) should we agree taht basically they have many common beliefs.

Thank you for reminding me to pass my judgment on the decision of the teaching of the church. At this stage, I am almost 95% convinced by the teaching of the RCC. Should I be able to cover the balance of 5%, I am on teh way (to use your word ‘back home’ ).

Thank you again for your sharing and reminders. I am touched if I may express it honestly.

wlychan64

 

[guanophore]

The statement that the Roman Catholic Chuch is the church or the only church founded by Jesus Christ is over assertive and baised

I agree. The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, the only one founded by Christ, is not “Roman”.

It does, however, have a Latin Rite.

and to further allege that protestant churches are those people that start their own churches without following the apostolic teachings, are over whelmingly unjustified too.

Really? what kind of “justification” do I require to make this observation? All Protestant Churches were started by men who had departed from the Apostolic Faith. I believe that most of them did so with piety, and were seeking a more authentic experience of Christianity than they found present in Latin Rite in Europe at the time of the Reformation. Corruption was rampant.

Are you inviting me to go though the new testament to find out how in the history of the Roman Catholic Churches that have departed so much from the teachig of the bible? let me know please.

Sure! Start a new thread for each, though, or better, use the search tool to find the thousands of threads where these concerns have already been addressed. That is the purpose of CAF. We are here to correct errors and misunderstandings people have about the Catholic faith.

Before you start, however, please be mindful that theCatholic Church is not a “bible based” Church such as those started by human beings. Our Church is founded upon Christ, and the Divine Deposit of Faith left by Him to the Apostles was complete and entire before one word of the NT was ever written.

The NT was written by, for, and about Catholics. That is why there is nothing in it that contradicts the Catholic faith. 400 years after the Apostles chose successors to carry on the gospel, the NT was formed and canonized by the Catholic Church.

And one more note, the Bible does not “teach”. People teach. You believe that the Latin Rite has “departed” from Scripture because you have been inadequately instructed in the Scriptures, and have likely been indoctrinated by persons who are equally ignorant and possibily even hostile to Catholicism.

Sorry to be frank but your points, with all my respect, are unjustified.

I look forward with eager expectation to learn what justification I require to make these statements of fact.

Although I am not fully convinced, I feel your sincerity to look at the matter at a broaden prospective with a view to unite other christian bodies together with the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) should we agree taht basically they have many common beliefs.

Yes. To the extent that each of the Protestant Ecclesial communities have retained Catholic Sacred Traditions, we have beliefs in common.

At this stage, I am almost 95% convinced by the teaching of the RCC. Should I be able to cover the balance of 5%, I am on teh way (to use your word ‘back home’ )

wlychan64

I hope that CAF will provide you with the resources you need to settle the balance.

 

[CentralFLJames]

The statement that the Roman Catholic Chuch is the church or the only church founded by Jesus Christ is over assertive and baised and to further allege that protestant churches are those people that start their own churches without following the apostolic teachings, are over whelmingly unjustified too.

Are you inviting me to go though the new testament to find out how in the history of the Roman Catholic Churches that have departed so much from the teachig of the bible? let me know please.

Sorry to be frank but your points, with all my respect, are unjustified.

You need to get a sense of historical reality if you imagine any sect of Protestantism is even in the ballpark of the same Church that existed in the first few centuries. There was never a secular priesthood in the early church nor any notion of “just believing” one is saved. I think the Catholic Church is being extremely generous in even permitting Catholics to call Protestants Christian to be very frank. If it were not for recognizing the trinitarian nature of God and baptism and accepting the general appeal of Christian morality Protestants would have nothing at all in common with Christianity or the early church. Sorry to be frank about it …

James

 

[wlychan64]

I agree. The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, the only one founded by Christ, is not “Roman”.

It does, however, have a Latin Rite.

Really? what kind of “justification” do I require to make this observation? All Protestant Churches were started by men who had departed from the Apostolic Faith. I believe that most of them did so with piety, and were seeking a more authentic experience of Christianity than they found present in Latin Rite in Europe at the time of the Reformation. Corruption was rampant.

Sure! Start a new thread for each, though, or better, use the search tool to find the thousands of threads where these concerns have already been addressed. That is the purpose of CAF. We are here to correct errors and misunderstandings people have about the Catholic faith.

Before you start, however, please be mindful that theCatholic Church is not a “bible based” Church such as those started by human beings. Our Church is founded upon Christ, and the Divine Deposit of Faith left by Him to the Apostles was complete and entire before one word of the NT was ever written.

The NT was written by, for, and about Catholics. That is why there is nothing in it that contradicts the Catholic faith. 400 years after the Apostles chose successors to carry on the gospel, the NT was formed and canonized by the Catholic Church.

And one more note, the Bible does not “teach”. People teach. You believe that the Latin Rite has “departed” from Scripture because you have been inadequately instructed in the Scriptures, and have likely been indoctrinated by persons who are equally ignorant and possibily even hostile to Catholicism.

I look forward with eager expectation to learn what justification I require to make these statements of fact.

Yes. To the extent that each of the Protestant Ecclesial communities have retained Catholic Sacred Traditions, we have beliefs in common.

I hope that CAF will provide you with the resources you need to settle the balance.

Thank you for the long sharing. I am sorry for the late reply.

I quote from your last sharing, ‘the Bible does not “teach”. People teach. You believe that the Latin Rite has “departed” from Scripture because you have been inadequately instructed in the Scriptures, and have likely been indoctrinated by persons who are equally ignorant and possibily even hostile to Catholicism.’

1. You may not be right to say that bible does not teach people teach, sir;
2. I have not said any words to the effect that the Latin Rite has departed from the bible. I think it does instead;
3. I do not think I have not been inadequately instructed in the bible (or you like to use th word ‘scripture’). To the contrary, you may not have been adequately instructed in your scripture with all my respect or to put it in a frank manner, in your ‘ignorant’ or ‘so-called’ full understanding of the scripture form the basis of you passing judgment against others who do not agree with you, sir;
4. Finally, I do not need start another thread or discussion. I have been asked to withdraw from this forum after discussing with a local priest of the local catholich church about contents of your last mail over the Easter. The priest is very worrying upon seeing your last view.
5. Thanks again for your efforts in ‘clarifying’ your views. I will certainly not come back to you or put it in a better manner ’ I do not wish to hear from you’ again.

The local priest will contact this forum after he gets a full transcript of this forum including your valuable contributions and enriching views.

Let me end my mail by quoting the immediate response of the priest upon seeing your last few mails/contributions, ’ They are discouarging and they will most likely turn others away from our Church. Stop reading them from now on’.

Again, all the best to you, sir and Good bye

wlychan64

wlychan64

 

[wlychan64]

You need to get a sense of historical reality if you imagine any sect of Protestantism is even in the ballpark of the same Church that existed in the first few centuries. There was never a secular priesthood in the early church nor any notion of “just believing” one is saved. I think the Catholic Church is being extremely generous in even permitting Catholics to call Protestants Christian to be very frank. If it were not for recognizing the trinitarian nature of God and baptism and accepting the general appeal of Christian morality Protestants would have nothing at all in common with Christianity or the early church. Sorry to be frank about it …

James

Dear James

1. thank you for your last sharing. I am sorry for a late reply;
2. I agree with you that Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is very generous in many ways to protestant churches. In fact, many small protestant churches are more ‘mean’ to the RCC. Your observations are right;
3. However, most of the big congregations like the Anglican Church, the Baptist and the Methodist respect the RCC very much. They have held functions with the RCC jointly.

I thank you again for your sincerity.

My decision to be a convert is very painful as I am alone.

However, this Easter was the happiest one I have ever had. I attended the local Catholic Church a few times over the Easter and participated in 2 masses in memory of Jesus Christ before he was brought to the Cross and celebrating his resurrection. Though I was alone all the time, my joy out of being close to Jesus with all the unknown Catholic ( to me) in the Churcch who were very friendly brought me joy and happy memories.

Whether I will be a convert finally or not, I thank you again.

After this Easter, I will carry on attending the mass weekly and following the Catholic Church calendar in my daily readings of the bible and praying. I also try to attend daily mass early in the morning as I feel that I am so close to Jesus Christ every time when I was in the mass.

I wish you and your famiily all the best.
Take care and good bye.

wlychan64

 

[JRKH]

Dear James

1. thank you for your last sharing. I am sorry for a late reply;
2. I agree with you that Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is very generous in many ways to protestant churches. In fact, many small protestant churches are more ‘mean’ to the RCC. Your observations are right;
3. However, most of the big congregations like the Anglican Church, the Baptist and the Methodist respect the RCC very much. They have held functions with the RCC jointly.

I thank you again for your sincerity.

My decision to be a convert is very painful as I am alone.

However, this Easter was the happiest one I have ever had. I attended the local Catholic Church a few times over the Easter and participated in 2 masses in memory of Jesus Christ before he was brought to the Cross and celebrating his resurrection. Though I was alone all the time, my joy out of being close to Jesus with all the unknown Catholic ( to me) in the Churcch who were very friendly brought me joy and happy memories.

Whether I will be a convert finally or not, I thank you again.

After this Easter, I will carry on attending the mass weekly and following the Catholic Church calendar in my daily readings of the bible and praying. I also try to attend daily mass early in the morning as I feel that I am so close to Jesus Christ every time when I was in the mass.

I wish you and your famiily all the best.
Take care and good bye.

wlychan64

wlychan64,
After reading your last two posts I felt compelled to respond.
I am glad to see that you feel so close to Christ in the Catholic Churches you have been attending. I am also glad to see that you are having discussions with a Catholic priest. May God continue to guide you.

In regards to the quality of responses you have received here and the opinion of your councilor I hope thatyou will recognize that on any open forum you will receive a wide range of opinion. Your differing reactions to guanaphore and CentralFloridaJames demonstrate this quite clearly. You are acting wisely in discussing these things with your spiritual advisor and getting his (name removed by moderator)ut.
After discussing these things further with your spiritual advisor some more I hope you will consider coming back and posting occasionally to at least let us know how your journey is progressing. We would enjoy hearing from you.

Peace
James

 

[paul_c]

Dear James

My decision to be a convert is very painful as I am alone.

However, this Easter was the happiest one I have ever had. I attended the local Catholic Church a few times over the Easter and participated in 2 masses in memory of Jesus Christ before he was brought to the Cross and celebrating his resurrection. Though I was alone all the time, my joy out of being close to Jesus with all the unknown Catholic ( to me) in the Churcch who were very friendly brought me joy and happy memories.

Whether I will be a convert finally or not, I thank you again.

After this Easter, I will carry on attending the mass weekly and following the Catholic Church calendar in my daily readings of the bible and praying. I also try to attend daily mass early in the morning as I feel that I am so close to Jesus Christ every time when I was in the mass.

I wish you and your famiily all the best.
Take care and good bye.

wlychan64

Good luck in your Faith Journey. I understand that it can be difficult without human support, but it seems obvious that the Holy Spirit is guiding you and bringing you the joy of Christ. Over the last several years, I have simply felt compelled to go to Mass daily, to read scripture and to increase my devotion. The Spirit is strong indeed. Just follow. It will lead you to the right decision. Take Care.

P.S. I’m sorry that some of the posts here discouraged you. You can be sure that that wasn’t our intent.

 

[CentralFLJames]

I thank you again for your sincerity.

My decision to be a convert is very painful as I am alone.

However, this Easter was the happiest one I have ever had. I attended the local Catholic Church a few times over the Easter and participated in 2 masses in memory of Jesus Christ before he was brought to the Cross and celebrating his resurrection. Though I was alone all the time, my joy out of being close to Jesus with all the unknown Catholic ( to me) in the Churcch who were very friendly brought me joy and happy memories.

Whether I will be a convert finally or not, I thank you again.

After this Easter, I will carry on attending the mass weekly and following the Catholic Church calendar in my daily readings of the bible and praying. I also try to attend daily mass early in the morning as I feel that I am so close to Jesus Christ every time when I was in the mass.

I wish you and your famiily all the best.
Take care and good bye.

wlychan64

Thanks wlychan. We are never really alone in The Church.

I will say a prayer for you,

James

 

[guanophore]

I quote from your last sharing, ‘the Bible does not “teach”. People teach. You believe that the Latin Rite has “departed” from Scripture because you have been inadequately instructed in the Scriptures, and have likely been indoctrinated by persons who are equally ignorant and possibily even hostile to Catholicism.’

1. You may not be right to say that bible does not teach people teach, sir;

Perhaps it is a bit extreme. The point I am trying to make is that teaching is an activity that requires a person. Most of us, when we read anything, interpret what we are reading in the light of our education (or lack of it) and experience. Many people believe they are being taught by the Holy Spirit when they read the Scriptures, even though the HS supposedly teaches opposite things to different people.

Often we believe the bible “teaches” things that we are really getting from another source.

1. I have not said any words to the effect that the Latin Rite has departed from the bible. I think it does instead;[/qutoe]

Does what instead?
wlychan64;5100648:

1. I do not think I have not been inadequately instructed in the bible (or you like to use th word ‘scripture’). To the contrary, you may not have been adequately instructed in your scripture with all my respect or to put it in a frank manner, in your ‘ignorant’ or ‘so-called’ full understanding of the scripture form the basis of you passing judgment against others who do not agree with you, sir;

I can certainly agree that I need more instruction in the Holy Scriptures. A lifetime is still not enough, as the Word of God is deep beyond understanding. A lack of proper instruction does cause many misundersandings and errors.

1. Finally, I do not need start another thread or discussion. I have been asked to withdraw from this forum after discussing with a local priest of the local catholich church about contents of your last mail over the Easter. The priest is very worrying upon seeing your last view.

I am very interested to hear more about this. What is the worry?

1. Thanks again for your efforts in ‘clarifying’ your views. I will certainly not come back to you or put it in a better manner ’ I do not wish to hear from you’ again.

Well, God be with you then.

The local priest will contact this forum after he gets a full transcript of this forum including your valuable contributions and enriching views.

I certainly hope he will contact me directly with his concerns. He can send me an email if he so desires. I am always open to correction.

Let me end my mail by quoting the immediate response of the priest upon seeing your last few mails/contributions, ’ They are discouarging and they will most likely turn others away from our Church. Stop reading them from now on’.

Again, all the best to you, sir and Good bye

Well, my apologies if I have said anything discouraging, or have turned anyone away. I will go back and read the posts, and try to find out why they came across this way.

It would help a lot if you or your priest could explain.

 

[wlychan64]

wlychan64,
After reading your last two posts I felt compelled to respond.
I am glad to see that you feel so close to Christ in the Catholic Churches you have been attending. I am also glad to see that you are having discussions with a Catholic priest. May God continue to guide you.

In regards to the quality of responses you have received here and the opinion of your councilor I hope thatyou will recognize that on any open forum you will receive a wide range of opinion. Your differing reactions to guanaphore and CentralFloridaJames demonstrate this quite clearly. You are acting wisely in discussing these things with your spiritual advisor and getting his (name removed by moderator)ut.
After discussing these things further with your spiritual advisor some more I hope you will consider coming back and posting occasionally to at least let us know how your journey is progressing. We would enjoy hearing from you.

Peace
James

Thank you for all your good words and encouragement.
I am very touched.

I promise you that I will return with some positive feedbacks when the time comes. Meanwhile, I should pray more first.

Best wishes
wlychan64

 

[wlychan64]

Perhaps it is a bit extreme. The point I am trying to make is that teaching is an activity that requires a person. Most of us, when we read anything, interpret what we are reading in the light of our education (or lack of it) and experience. Many people believe they are being taught by the Holy Spirit when they read the Scriptures, even though the HS supposedly teaches opposite things to different people.

Often we believe the bible “teaches” things that we are really getting from another source.
wlychan64;5100648:

1. I have not said any words to the effect that the Latin Rite has departed from the bible. I think it does instead;[/qutoe]

Does what instead?

I can certainly agree that I need more instruction in the Holy Scriptures. A lifetime is still not enough, as the Word of God is deep beyond understanding. A lack of proper instruction does cause many misundersandings and errors.

I am very interested to hear more about this. What is the worry?

Well, God be with you then.

I certainly hope he will contact me directly with his concerns. He can send me an email if he so desires. I am always open to correction.

Well, my apologies if I have said anything discouraging, or have turned anyone away. I will go back and read the posts, and try to find out why they came across this way.

It would help a lot if you or your priest could explain.

Daer Sir,

1. No apology from you. I should apologise first.
2. Even if I may not agree with your views entirely, you have all my respect for your deep thoughts over the matter such as ‘teaching’. I agree with you it is worrying that so many people may claim that they can preach and teach.
3. Finally, I will not bother with the priest. Meanwhile, I want to strengthen my belief through different means including daily prayers, studying the bible whenever I am free and attending weekly masses. I will follow the Catholic Church calendar in the studies of the scriputre and praying.
4. Lastly, I thank you for all the feedbacks. I apprecaite and I have learnt a lot from them.
   
   I promise to come back with ‘positive’ feedbacks. Meanwhile, off I go for my ‘home coming journey’.
   
   Finally, like all other people who have posted their views here, all of you have set good examples of a Catholic that I respect and admire for your high integrity and devotion to your belief and the Catholic Church even though I may not be able to agree with all your views.

best regards
wlychan64

 

[wlychan64]

Good luck in your Faith Journey. I understand that it can be difficult without human support, but it seems obvious that the Holy Spirit is guiding you and bringing you the joy of Christ. Over the last several years, I have simply felt compelled to go to Mass daily, to read scripture and to increase my devotion. The Spirit is strong indeed. Just follow. It will lead you to the right decision. Take Care.

P.S. I’m sorry that some of the posts here discouraged you. You can be sure that that wasn’t our intent.

Dear Paul C,

Thank you for your sharing.

There are no discouargments from any authors of this forum. I have spent some time to re-read the posts posted on this internet. I have learnt a lot from many authors like you. Thanks for your sharing and teaching.

Best wishes always
wlychan64

 

[JRKH]

Thank you for all your good words and encouragement.
I am very touched.

I promise you that I will return with some positive feedbacks when the time comes. Meanwhile, I should pray more first.

Best wishes
wlychan64

Pray - Yes
As should we All.

Peace
James