Romney stands by message in secret video

[Tampa_Dave]

Better than obama… the gift that keeps on taking. Hopefully he’ll be out of office this election… if not… we’re all in trouble. Unless you don’t work for a living. Then you get a free ride.

Amen! Romney-Ryan 2012!

 

[Dawnia]

Better than obama… the gift that keeps on taking. Hopefully he’ll be out of office this election… if not… we’re all in trouble. Unless you don’t work for a living. Then you get a free ride.

I wouldn’t count on that. I noticed a few months ago that his message in the ads changed from the rich need to pay more to everyone needs to pay their fair share. It seems to me that he is setting everyone up to start taking from everyone. If you’re not useful to the government…or else. (Not sure what the or else will be since the President is not all powerful).

 

[LisaA]

Actually i believe CPA stands for Certified pain in the ***. At least that’s what my clients say… Of course us old-timers say it means " can’t pass again "

No Bob, it stands for Cut, Paste and Attach which if you did workpapers back in the 1980s you’d understand is a perfect description of 90% of our job I sometimes wondered why I went to college. First grade would have sufficed for much of the initial work on an audit.

Lisa

 

[qui_est_ce]

No Bob, it stands for Cut, Paste and Attach which if you did workpapers back in the 1980s you’d understand is a perfect description of 90% of our job I sometimes wondered why I went to college. First grade would have sufficed for much of the initial work on an audit.

Lisa

That’s why I never sat for the CPA exam.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Better than obama… the gift that keeps on taking. Hopefully he’ll be out of office this election… if not… we’re all in trouble. Unless you don’t work for a living. Then you get a free ride.

Good one!

 

[meltzerboy]

Actually i believe CPA stands for Certified pain in the ***. At least that’s what my clients say… Of course us old-timers say it means " can’t pass again "

That reminds me of what those in my profession say about PhD’s: “piled higher and deeper.” And ABD, which stands for “all but dissertation,” really means “almost brain dead.” As academics advance in degrees, they learn more and more about less and less.

 

[estesbob]

That reminds me of what those in my profession say about PhD’s: “piled higher and deeper.” And ABD, which stands for “all but dissertation,” really means “almost brain dead.” As academics advance in degrees, they learn more and more about less and less.

Its all about getting those initials behind your name. Fortunately in my profession the “CPA” is all people really look for. What is ironic in this discussion is i am a Romney supporter but doing my best to make clients part of the 47% of who pay no Federal Income tax!

 

[estesbob]

No Bob, it stands for Cut, Paste and Attach which if you did workpapers back in the 1980s you’d understand is a perfect description of 90% of our job I sometimes wondered why I went to college. First grade would have sufficed for much of the initial work on an audit.

Lisa

I still do it. Now they stick us with in office peer reviews so you make your audits a document dump so the reviewer gives up looking through it all.

 

[Jeanne_S]

How are Romney’s action and Obama’s action related? Did Romney save the girl at some embassy being stormed by some mob?

They are related in the contrast to how Romney sprung onto action,forming a plan,executed it with a positive end.Obama,too busy campaigning,to even plan ahead of 9/11 anniversary,to insure the safety of our people working at the Embassy.Then,after the fact,does nothing but go back to trotting across the country to campaign more.A true statesman would have suspended campaigning for at least a few days,to honor those lives lost. All Obama has done for the most part in the last four years is campaign.He likes all the props that come with being the president,yet sure doesn’t seem too interested in actually doing his job.

 

[Jeanne_S]

It’s easy to be compassionate when you’re using other people’s money. we must always keep in mind that one does not fulfill their obligation to help the poor and needy merely by voting for somebody who promises take a other people’s money and do it for them. Helping the poor and the needy is a personal obligation and we cannot delegate that duty to the government or any other organization. How much the government should be involved in helping the poor and needy is a prudential judgment. From a catholic standpoint the church does not endorse nor oppose either party or either candidates proffered solutions to the economic problems facing this country.

Bingo! Did all you Obama supporters pay attention…?

 

[meltzerboy]

Of course I don’t believe it’s Steve vs Joe. If you read my other posts you will note that I am very aware some are dealt a very bad hand in life. I was born to very well educated parents who emphasized school, success and learning. Had I been born to a drug addicted single mom who didn’t care if I made it to school or got knocked up at age 15, I clearly would not have the same path in life. I get that. But what I don’t understand is that the Left focuses more on equality of results than equality of opportunities.

Here is a perfect example of where the Left and Right differ; on school choice. The Left, beholden to teachers’ unions is horrified that concerned and responsible parents would have the ability to move their children from horrible failing schools to schools where they can learn. There was a program in Washington DC allowing poor children to access the kind of schools that the Obama daughters attend. Obama killed this program. I think the dollars follow the child to whatever school works for him or for her. Find someone on the Left who agrees with that plan and willing to defy the teachers’ unions to get it done and I’ll vote for him or her.

As I think most on the Right have said, focus on equality of access and opportunity and quit trying to force equality of outcomes with social tinkering. Get obstacles out of the way and let people succeed. Demand accountability from both programs and participants. I think it’s wonderful that a low income kid can get a grant or scholarship to a great college. But I think the kid has to be accountable for something besides signing the back of the check. Those getting public assistance, if able bodied, should show progress toward getting OFF public assistance.

I’m not heartless Meltzerboy but I see way too much waste in government to think they should get more of my money. Government may have a role but it shouldn’t be the Leading Lady.

Lisa

I know you’re not heartless, Lisa. I recall you volunteer for either a soup kitchen or homeless shelter, which is more than I do sending checks when I can to St. Jude’s Hospital. We just have different philosophies regarding the role of government in helping people. I also agree with your comment about accountability and (near) equality of opportunity rather than outcome, and disagree with those on the Left who believe equality of outcome should be assured.

With regard to the voucher program for poor children stuck in failing public schools, I think it’s a complicated issue. On the one hand, it may provide some of them with a golden opportunity for success; on the other, it may be setting some of them up for failure. I’m thinking particularly about those students who lack the appropriate skills for their grade level and may be placed in a class of high-achieving students. While motivation can go a long way toward achievement, frustration may hinder it. This kind of heterogeneous setting may also interfere with the education of the better students. You see, Lisa, I’m an elitist at heart when it comes to not compromising the standards of the class and the school. In addition, the increasing enrollment of students, resulting in larger class sizes, can put more of a burden on the teacher. That is why private schools try to keep class size as low as possible. Finally, what about the public schools and all the students who must remain: do we just abandon them or do we attempt to fix the structural problems? To me, “vouchers” are just a quick fix which don’t really get to the root of the educational problems in our schools. Perhaps charter schools might be a more viable alternative. One thing I know: the politicians, both Democrat and Republican, do no more than pay lip-service to the importance of education and educators, while most of them in fact are clueless and couldn’t care less.

 

[ProVobis]

I’m also a CPA. I remember 70% on dividends and interest. Earned income was taxed at 50%. Ah yes, those Jimmy Carter years were filled with hope and prosperity.

I was married to a CPA who claimed she voted for Carter. I didn’t but I had no complaints after Nixon. I had three pay raises in one year, was offered five jobs, and EARNED 12% on interest. (Thank you, Paul Volcker.) She did well until Reagan.

 

[LisaA]

I know you’re not heartless, Lisa. I recall you volunteer for either a soup kitchen or homeless shelter, which is more than I do sending checks when I can to St. Jude’s Hospital. We just have different philosophies regarding the role of government in helping people. I also agree with your comment about accountability and (near) equality of opportunity rather than outcome, and disagree with those on the Left who believe equality of outcome should be assured.

With regard to the voucher program for poor children stuck in failing public schools, I think it’s a complicated issue. On the one hand, it may provide some of them with a golden opportunity for success; on the other, it may be setting some of them up for failure. I’m thinking particularly about those students who lack the appropriate skills for their grade level and may be placed in a class of high-achieving students. While motivation can go a long way toward achievement, frustration may hinder it. This kind of heterogeneous setting may also interfere with the education of the better students. You see, Lisa, I’m an elitist at heart when it comes to not compromising the standards of the class and the school. In addition, the increasing enrollment of students, resulting in larger class sizes, can put more of a burden on the teacher. That is why private schools try to keep class size as low as possible. **Finally, what about the public schools and all the students who must remain: do we just abandon them or do we attempt to fix the structural problems? To me, “vouchers” are just a quick fix which don’t really get to the root of the educational problems in our schools. **Perhaps charter schools might be a more viable alternative. One thing I know: the politicians, both Democrat and Republican, do no more than pay lip-service to the importance of education and educators, while most of them in fact are clueless and couldn’t care less.

Meltzerboy do not want to stray too much and you are right that both sides claim to support education but neither side has done much. I suspect it’s because they all keep their kids OUT of the public schools so it’s easy to look the other way. Further I fault teacher’s unions. Honestly has this improved education?

I’ve bolded the area that I think deserves fleshing out a little bit. You see one of the benefits of vouchers is that it will increase competition as schools vie for those precious dollars. No longer are schools assured of a particular cohort of students, they have to earn their patronage, just as any other service provider has to earn its customers. It’s very easy to be complacent about a poor teacher when children MUST go to a particular school. OTOH if a principal or superintendent is trying to attract more students, he/she will be far more likely to take action. Again with the strength of teacher’s unions maybe not much can be done in the immediate future but I believe that if the whole system changes, over time this competition should improve results overall.

Watching the displays of outrageous behavior as well as dreadful grammar from the Chicago teachers I am even more disgusted with the whole concept of teacher’s unions. I pity the children trapped in those schools while the unions demand pay rates nearly double the median although only graduating 40% of the students.

I was blessed to go to good public schools because our town had a small college and most of the professors’ wives were teachers. But great teachers and great public schools are getting more and more uncommon.

Lisa

 

[Tampa_Dave]

Bingo! Did all you Obama supporters pay attention…?

Are you serious? Obama voters think re-distribution is hunky dory.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

I was married to a CPA who claimed she voted for Carter. I didn’t but I had no complaints after Nixon. I had three pay raises in one year, was offered five jobs, and EARNED 12% on interest. (Thank you, Paul Volcker.) She did well until Reagan.

Carter was a nightmare. Obama is Nightmare on Elm Street.

 

[JustNotSure]

FWIW this is how most “tax shelters” work. Either income is deferred and taxed later, for example 401k or IRAs or certain kinds of assets “convert” from ordinary income to capital gain treatment based on a holding period or other factors. Stocks for example get favorable treatment if held “long term” vs “short term.” The length of time has varied over time but this is not a new concept. Some income is never taxed (muni bond interest) but there is a public benefit as these bonds often fund large public projects.

There is nothing evil or unpatriotic about using the tax laws to your benefit. Most tax laws are written to provide some kind of economic or social result. The perceived benefit should be factored in when considering the total picture.

OTOH the media loves to hate on Romney for using legal means to reduce taxes but crickets chirped when it was pointed out that Theresa Heinz Kerry had a lot of untaxed income from muni bonds. A double standard…naw!

LIsa

If in fact you are a CPA, you obviously do not specialize in tax. 401K’s and IRA’s are not tax shelters, but tax deferred investments. When they are distributed, they are taxed as ordinary income, not as capital gains. Personal tax investments in stocks, if held long enough qualify for reduced capital gain treatment, IRA’s and 401K investments do not. Google IRA distributions and how they are taxes.
You are entirely correct, most tax laws are written to accomplish some ecomomic or SOCIAL result, i.e. mortgage interest deduction encourages home ownership, etc.
Romneys use of converting, excuse me, Bain Capital’s use of ordinary income conversion does not pass the smell test. Substance over form, always remember that. May I flow chart it for you? Investors put money in. Bain Capital advises where to invest. They get a management fee for their services. OOPS! They waive their fee, convert it to equity in the fund, take distributions in the future and pay capital gains. WOW!! How did they pay for this equity interest? Management fees for services rendered, ordinary income. I conceed any gains over the basis of the management fee is of course capital gain, but the fee itself, ordinary income. Sorry, you loose. Google it!

 

[meltzerboy]

Carter was a nightmare. Obama is Nightmare on Elm Street.

And what was George W. Bush: “Nightmare at 20,000 Feet”?

 

[JustNotSure]

Of course I don’t believe it’s Steve vs Joe. If you read my other posts you will note that I am very aware some are dealt a very bad hand in life. I was born to very well educated parents who emphasized school, success and learning. Had I been born to a drug addicted single mom who didn’t care if I made it to school or got knocked up at age 15, I clearly would not have the same path in life. I get that. But what I don’t understand is that the Left focuses more on equality of results than equality of opportunities.

As I think most on the Right have said, focus on equality of access and opportunity and quit trying to force equality of outcomes with social tinkering. Get obstacles out of the way and let people succeed. Demand accountability from both programs and participants. I think it’s wonderful that a low income kid can get a grant or scholarship to a great college. But I think the kid has to be accountable for something besides signing the back of the check. Those getting public assistance, if able bodied, should show progress toward getting OFF public assistance.

I’m not heartless Meltzerboy but I see way too much waste in government to think they should get more of my money. Government may have a role but it shouldn’t be the Leading Lady.

Lisa

Glad you were born with a silver spoon, most of us were not. I got through college on the GI bill, guess you think that was a bad program as well. Didn’t graduate until I was 30yo, lost some income earning years, my fault I guess. Point is, not sure what planet you are from, but equal opportunity is a myth. I wish I could have gone to college out of high school but I didn’t have your luck at birth. I do consider myself accountable for my decisions and do not consider myself a victim, just less fortunate. You may not think you are heartless but your words betray you. God bless, I will pray for you.,

 

[LisaA]

If in fact you are a CPA, you obviously do not specialize in tax. 401K’s and IRA’s are not tax shelters, but tax deferred investments. When they are distributed, they are taxed as ordinary income, not as capital gains. Personal tax investments in stocks, if held long enough qualify for reduced capital gain treatment, IRA’s and 401K investments do not. Google IRA distributions and how they are taxes.
You are entirely correct, most tax laws are written to accomplish some ecomomic or SOCIAL result, i.e. mortgage interest deduction encourages home ownership, etc.
Romneys use of converting, excuse me, Bain Capital’s use of ordinary income conversion does not pass the smell test. Substance over form, always remember that. May I flow chart it for you? Investors put money in. Bain Capital advises where to invest. They get a management fee for their services. OOPS! They waive their fee, convert it to equity in the fund, take distributions in the future and pay capital gains. WOW!! How did they pay for this equity interest? Management fees for services rendered, ordinary income. I conceed any gains over the basis of the management fee is of course capital gain, but the fee itself, ordinary income. Sorry, you loose. Google it!

The term “tax shelter” can refer to any way to defer or avoid paying taxes. Retirement plans actually do shelter income from tax until that income is withdrawn. Ergo they are “tax shelters.” Why else do people defer income into a 401k or IRA? To avoid current taxes. Sorry if you have a limited definition but even Wikipedia specifically refers to 401ks and IRAs as tax shelters.

As to turning ordinary income into capital gain, it’s neither magic nor illegal. Buy a stock at $10 sell it the next week for $15 and you have ordinary income. Buy the same stock for $10, wait a year and a day, sell it for $15 and presto chango, it’s a long term capital gain. Does that pass your personal smell test?

Your opinion of a particular tax provision is really not determinative. Anyone who doesn’t take advantage of all potential tax benefits is foolish. As a CPA you are supposed to be an advocate for your clients. I hope you don’t let your personal beliefs get in the way of preparing returns on your client’s behalf.

Lisa

 

[ProVobis]

had a lot of untaxed income from muni bonds.

At these low rates, there’s not much to tax.