Romney stands by message in secret video

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iohannes13 said:
Is it just me or are republicans giving lip-service to pro-life voters to get the vote? Romney was in favor of a woman deciding for herself but had a miraculous conversion to pro-life just in time for the elections? What about Bush? What was his record. Didn’t the republicans control the house and senate during his presidency? Abortion is still on the agenda. I think they just give lip-service. Catholics demand that the people you vote in deliver on their promises!!!

prolifeprofiles.com/george-w-bush-abortion
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How’s the war of poverty working out for you? Gitmo closings? Unemployment lowering?

In addition to these many failures with the economy, Obama loosened restrictions on abortions as well, and appointed pro-choice USSC justices.

What was your point again?
 
Tony_the_mad said:
In fairness what Mr. Romney has done is not necessarily what he will do as President. I think he will have much less latitude to do remotely pro-choice. My guess is that there will be more than a few things done under a President Romney to help restrict abortion, but that they will be mostly symbolic nibbling at the edges. There just isn’t the political will in this country, though, to do more than that unless the Republicans want to commit political suicide.

Perhaps Romney will become as strong as LBJ was in promoting and signing laws for civil rights. That cost the Democrats badly for decades, they still haven’t won any part of the south back which they used to control with the dixiecrats, but it was the right thing to do.

Perhaps, Romney and a Republican controlled congress will act aggressively against abortion. I can’t see it happening, even the tea partyers seem to care more about other issues such as taxation than abortion. There is no evidence that they will do so, they have talked about it for decades, and have had plenty of opportunities to put their money where their mouth is, but so far…
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First on the agenda though can be totally defund the nation’s largest abortion provider, Planned Parenthood. The government ceasing to give them funds would be a victory.

Polls are now routinely showing the nation being 50% or more pro-life.

Also, States are gradually asserting their rights to decide this, there is only one abortion clinic in Mississippi, Planned Parenthood has been defunded in some States such as New Jersey and Wisconsin under Republican Governors.

Rand Paul has his personhood amendment. This could actually pass some day.

So there is progress made on this front.

And Bush did in fact, have some pro-life actions such as revoking the Mexico City amendment. Relevant Radio host Mariani, Catholic radio routinely spoke well of what Bush did concerning the pro-life cause.
 
Tony_the_mad said:
In fairness what Mr. Romney has done is not necessarily what he will do as President. I think he will have much less latitude to do remotely pro-choice. My guess is that there will be more than a few things done under a President Romney to help restrict abortion, but that they will be mostly symbolic nibbling at the edges. There just isn’t the political will in this country, though, to do more than that unless the Republicans want to commit political suicide.

Perhaps Romney will become as strong as LBJ was in promoting and signing laws for civil rights. That cost the Democrats badly for decades, they still haven’t won any part of the south back which they used to control with the dixiecrats, but it was the right thing to do.

Perhaps, Romney and a Republican controlled congress will act aggressively against abortion. I can’t see it happening, even the tea partyers seem to care more about other issues such as taxation than abortion. There is no evidence that they will do so, they have talked about it for decades, and have had plenty of opportunities to put their money where their mouth is, but so far…
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Again, short of over turning Roe v Wade, which only an unelected court can do, the greatest strides have been made under Republicans.

And how is it people complain that “nothing has changed” with abortion (simply not true) with Republicans, and yet we have more poor now than ever before, and way more than when the war on Poverty began, and somehow, Dems get a pass? We are increasing the numbers of poor, and everyone is getting more poor statistically each days the the national debt races upwards, and not a peep?
 
Tony_the_mad said:
The problem with talking to empty chairs is that the only voice you hear is your own.

I ‘support’ Obama because he is more likely to do the most good overall. When voting for a candidate you must account not only for the positions they support but how likely they are to have an influence over them, either through action or through speech. Abortion is truly the greatest evil in our society, but their are others that come close, especially when you add them up. (These include but are not limited to rampant divorce, unjust wars, alcoholism and drug abuse, child abuse, discrimination, poverty, depression.) The calculus of voting is about multiplying the importance of the cause times the likelihood of the person affecting that cause and then summing them up.

I judge the likeliness of either Obama or Romney having an effect on the abortion issue to be so small that its effect is smaller than lesser issues such as the others listed. For instance, if I recall correctly, the number of abortions in the US has decreased under the Obama administration.

Others have different opinions than I do, including other liberals and that is ok.
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Sounds eminently reasonable to me 👍

Highlighted portion: that is a rational point that is too often overlooked.
 
Al_Moritz said:
Sounds eminently reasonable to me 👍

Highlighted portion: that is a rational point that is too often overlooked.
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Yes, and the nation’s biggest abortion provider is Planned Parenthood, Wisconsin and New Jersey have defunded Planned Parenthood in Wisconsn and New Jersey under Republican Governors. There may well be other states. Texas tried, the Feds acted against them.

Romney has pledged to defund Planned Parenthood, a courageous stance on it’s own.

Some who do not want to acknowledge this are indeed supporting the evil of abortion and feel like they can justify that stance by saying “well both parties aren’t doing anything about abortion” when the truth is is that the Democrat party is radically in support of abortion and expanding abortion rights, despite education and birth control by planned parenthood, apparently, they perform more abortions about every year.

The partial birth abortion advocates have been Democrats such as Russ Feingold of Wisconsin, voted out of office probably principally on this issue.

Paul Ryan of course, is very pro-life.

So in the end, those equating the two parties I think are either uninformed or intellectually dishonest.
 
ishii said:
capitalism - that includes** ethical **business owners who do the right thing over socialism with bureaucrats making the decisions - which doesn’t work.

Ishii
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Anyonew know where I can find one of these.😃
 
He_Man said:
How’s the war of poverty working out for you? Gitmo closings? Unemployment lowering?

In addition to these many failures with the economy, Obama loosened restrictions on abortions as well, and appointed pro-choice USSC justices.

What was your point again?
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Uhmmm…what I wrote had nothing to do with Obamas. The list of Republican failures is just as long as Obamas so why go there? I was just pointing out facts on their true actions on abortion since that is a non-negotiable issue. And if they say they are against it and say they’ll stop it, there is no pressure from public when they do little to almost nothing to stop it.
 
ishii said:
I think I can anwer that - goes something like this:

“I don’t care if Obama supports partial birth abortion and infanticide, because Obama is for more welfare for the poor! Therefore, by voting for Obama, I am fullfilling the gospel requirement to help the poor ( the ones fortunate enough to not get aborted).”

" But how can you vote for someone who is for infanticide?"

" well, we can’t push our morality on others - if someone wants to kill their baby after its born, then I can say that’s wrong. We live in a democracy of plural beliefs. Obama’s for helping the poor! "

*“But killing a baby is wrong!” *

" Obama’s for helping the poor!"

Ishii
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You forgot:
“You only care about pre-born babies. You don’t do anything for them after they’re born.”
 
Tony_the_mad said:
In fairness… Perhaps, Romney and a Republican controlled congress will act aggressively against abortion. (point taken)

…I can’t see it happening, even the tea partyers seem to care more about other issues such as taxation than abortion. There is no evidence that they will do so, they have talked about it for decades, and have had plenty of opportunities to put their money where their mouth is, but so far…
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We tell them that abortion is the number one issue, they say they’ll do something to stop it. We vote for them because other team tells us at the outset they are changing nothing to stop it. And once they are in office, they consider a million other issues more important than abortion. We sit back do nothing but point out how democrats are monsters and baby killers and they will only get worse if they get reelected. And the cycle repeats every election season. What a slap in the face.

We know what Romney thinks of half the country. Does he have similar feelings for the millions of Catholics that vote for him? Does he think we are stupid because he can count on our vote simply by saying he is anti-abortion even though he as a long dirty laundry list in that arena?

I read his memo on how he feels about abortion. The interesting thing is that he started out his discussion by first describing what children he is willing to allow to be killed by abortion. Why is that first? In my own words, the Catholic community tells us that if both candidates are evil, to vote for the lesser of two evils. Both Romney and Obama have the same track record. Obama may have more abortion numbers under his belt than Romney. But that is only because he has governed over the entire country whereas Romney only governed a few square miles by comparison. But his track record shows that he is no different than Obama. He may have changed as he claims. He hasn’t been held accountable for the thousands or even millions of abortions he supported in his own state. We are ready to vote for him simply because he now says he is anti-abortion. I don’t know which is worse, the person that says they are going to kick me and does, or the person that says that they won’t but does when I turn away?
 
iohannes13 said:
Uhmmm…what I wrote had nothing to do with Obamas. The list of Republican failures is just as long as Obamas so why go there? I was just pointing out facts on their true actions on abortion since that is a non-negotiable issue. And if they say they are against it and say they’ll stop it, there is no pressure from public when they do little to almost nothing to stop it.
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Again, Governors Walker and Christie of Wisconsin and New Jersey defunded planned parenthood, that is the nation’s largest abortion provider.

In comparison, just South of Wisconsin, another woman 6 weeks ago died at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Illinois, Obama’s home state and Obama of course, is a big advocate of planned parenthood, holding up military checks being paid out per the budget of a few years ago unless Planned Parenthood was included.

So, I think your point is one of convenience and not so.

Mississippi has one abortion clinic left in the state, a number have closed in Alabama. Kentucky Senator Republican Rand Paul has his personhood bill which if passes would afford 14th amendment protections to the unborn.

The Republicans combat in fact, stringent radical abortion supporters, no more so than “Vote against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act” Democrat Barack Obama.

At a minimum, Republicans act in states all across the USA at a state level with the laws in place that are, in South Dakota, thanks to Republican legislation and the Supreme Court ruled it constitutional, the connection between suicide in women (3 times higher) that have abortions must be told a woman who is getting an abortion in that state.

It’s really a tired old saw to hear someone say that Roe vs. Wade can be overturned so easily but Republicans fight against radical extremists on this issue every day.

Legislation such as that a woman be given an ultrasound image of the baby she would be aborting, don’t think this has passed supreme courts but at least, Republicans have tried and most abortions already have ultrasounds.

And the list goes on and on.
 
He_Man said:
Again, short of over turning Roe v Wade, which only an unelected court can do, the greatest strides have been made under Republicans.

And how is it people complain that “nothing has changed” with abortion (simply not true) with Republicans, and yet we have more poor now than ever before, and way more than when the war on Poverty began, and somehow, Dems get a pass? We are increasing the numbers of poor, and everyone is getting more poor statistically each days the the national debt races upwards, and not a peep?
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Right, per charities, I don’t know the big picture per what the Christian religion has done but I think, people like St. Vincent De Paul pioneered charity, 1 in 5 patients in the USA are in Catholic Hospitals.

Yet, we see a government that is forcing some of this mandate stuff on religions, violating consciences, this same administration under Obama has seen 41 straight months of unemployment over 8% and African American unemployment is higher than 14% and has grown under Obama. Not sure if the poor are really being helped. And in the long run the teach a man to fish scenario may well help the poor more.
 
Out there on their own in the wilderness, and now we see Mormons and how they are doing. I haven’t studied their religion but as a group, they seem to have done relatively well economically. Does this bear on the situation? I am not sure.
 
BroomWagon said:
Again, Governors Walker and Christie of Wisconsin and New Jersey defunded planned parenthood, that is the nation’s largest abortion provider.

In comparison, just South of Wisconsin, another woman 6 weeks ago died at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Illinois, Obama’s home state and Obama of course, is a big advocate of planned parenthood, holding up military checks being paid out per the budget of a few years ago unless Planned Parenthood was included.

So, I think your point is one of convenience and not so.

Mississippi has one abortion clinic left in the state, a number have closed in Alabama. Kentucky Senator Republican Rand Paul has his personhood bill which if passes would afford 14th amendment protections to the unborn.

The Republicans combat in fact, stringent radical abortion supporters, no more so than “Vote against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act” Democrat Barack Obama.

At a minimum, Republicans act in states all across the USA at a state level with the laws in place that are, in South Dakota, thanks to Republican legislation and the Supreme Court ruled it constitutional, the connection between suicide in women (3 times higher) that have abortions must be told a woman who is getting an abortion in that state.

It’s really a tired old saw to hear someone say that Roe vs. Wade can be overturned so easily but Republicans fight against radical extremists on this issue every day.

Legislation such as that a woman be given an ultrasound image of the baby she would be aborting, don’t think this has passed supreme courts but at least, Republicans have tried and most abortions already have ultrasounds.

And the list goes on and on.
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Sounds too much like the War on Drugs. We catch a few drug dealers, confiscate a few pounds of marijuana to calm the masses. But we do nothing to truly stop it.

Politicians from both parties are like diapers, and they need changing frequently for the same reason.
 
BroomWagon said:
Right, per charities, I don’t know the big picture per what the Christian religion has done but I think, people like St. Vincent De Paul pioneered charity, 1 in 5 patients in the USA are in Catholic Hospitals.

Yet, we see a government that is forcing some of this mandate stuff on religions, violating consciences, this same administration under Obama has seen 41 straight months of unemployment over 8% and African American unemployment is higher than 14% and has grown under Obama. Not sure if the poor are really being helped. And in the long run the teach a man to fish scenario may well help the poor more.
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Poverty is not caused by abortion nor is poverty justification to support abortion. Policies from both parties and their fighting that gets us nowhere is the cause for the increased poverty. Both Democrats and Republicans are to blame just the same. Poverty is inherent in the capitalist system as, at least in practice, it creates a society of haves and have nots. And please don’t inundate me with hate accusing me a being a red commie for that statement. I just understand that no man made system is perfect.
 
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