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rlg94086
Guest
Based on?
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iohannes13
Guest
A straw man? I was never able to grasp that concept. So maybe my argument is one. On the same hand, I think you are oversimplifying what happened in those countries too. Don’t miss read me, I’m not defending them nor their systems. But you claim communism and socialism caused all those bad things. Didn’t the fact that these countries weren’t democratic and their regimes were governed by crazy men and tyrants grasping to maintain their power have a lot to do with all those things?
The USA is not a pure capitalist country. I think pure capitalism would fall apart in five minutes. Evidence of this happened during the Great Depression and during 2008. 2008 was a scary time. All these problems were caused because private industry was allowed to lean closer to pure capitalism during those periods. Throughout our history, the government has stepped in to limit the concentrations of power that private industries acquire and to address many of the social problems that are created by private industry being unchecked to pursue profits. So the USA is a mixed capitalism in which the both the government and private industry play roles. This model has been very successful, I think. Many, of the technological and medical advances as you’ve mentioned have been possible because the government along with private industry made it possible. Just think about how much the government funds cancer research. This research is done in partnership with private industry many times.
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Ecoclimber
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Yea and that’s why corporate America has outsourced most of the technical and manufacturing jobs to a ‘Communist’ country Red China to build that nation’s economy into one of the most robust economic superpowers in the world at the expense of workers and jobs in America?
The Sensata plant in Freeport is profitable and competitive, but its majority owner, Bain Capital, has decided to ship jobs to China – and forced workers to train their overseas replacements guardian.co.uk/business/2012/aug/10/illinois-workers-bain-outsourcing
This was accomplish by the influencing Congress by powerful corporate lobbyists to pass laws whereby corporations were paid at TAXPAYERS expense to offshore jobs here in America as well as provide tax incentives by changing the tax code.
Why would want to support a Communist country when there are so many other Democratic countries in the world willing to take these jobs especially in Catholic South America? **Isn’t this supporting Communism?
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It’s amazing that no one addresses this issue!
The Sensata plant in Freeport is profitable and competitive, but its majority owner, Bain Capital, has decided to ship jobs to China – and forced workers to train their overseas replacements**(Chinese)** guardian.co.uk/business/2012/aug/10/illinois-workers-bain-outsourcing
It seems that people are against socialism but only for the ‘little people’. Corporate socialism is okay for the 1% through entitlements, tax incentives, tax loop holes, tax benefits, government subsidies for the wealthy and corporate entities.
Senate report: Microsoft used loopholes to avoid billions in taxes. This goes for most U.S. corporations in America as they have powerful corporate lobbyist to change the tax code.
redmond.komonews.com/news/784769-senate-report-microsoft-used-loopholes-avoid-billions-taxes
Are we a Democratic government anymore? Obvious not! Powerful corporate lobbyists wants to throw away the Constitution and create a Oligarchy or Plutocracy style of government where powerful corporate lobbyists are represented, NOT the people.
This is what happens when you allow 412 U.S. billionaires to have incomes exceeding the GNP of over a hundred nations. They can buy and peddle their influence anywhere. That is too much power in the hands of too few people. It’s frightening to think. Who needs that amount of money in their lifetime. **It’s detrimental to a free and Democratic society!
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**Clinton: "We Democrats — we think the country works better with a strong middle class, with real opportunities for poor folks to work their way into it with a relentless focus on the future, with business and government actually working together to promote growth and broadly share prosperity. You see, we believe that “we’re all in this together” is a far better philosophy than “you’re on your own.” **
So who’s right? Well, since 1961, for 52 years now, the Republicans have held the White House 28 years, the Democrats, 24. In those 52 years, our private economy has produced 66 million private sector jobs.
So what’s the job score? Republicans, 24 million; Democrats, 42 (million).
We, the people recognize that we have responsibilities as well as rights; that our destinies are bound together; that a freedom which asks only, what’s in it for me, a freedom without a commitment to others, a freedom without love or charity or duty or patriotism, is unworthy of our founding ideals, and those who died in their defense.
The Republicans killed the other day a veteran jobs bill. That’s giving it to those soldiers who served their country through the last ten years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan!
The GOP who cut the food stamps budget where 50% of the food stamp beneficiaries are children, 17 percent are seniors, and unfortunately now 1.5 million households are veteran households that are receiving food stamps while at the same time guaranteeing guaranteed profit for crop insurance companies.
So we eliminate programs for Republicans as well as Democrats who consist of the 47% . We are talking about programs for the elderly, the disabled, the sick. Romney **"47% of Americans “believe they are victims,” entitled to government handouts for food, shelter, health care—”you name it.”
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**So what happens to the elderly, the disabled and the children. Cut off the programs and just let them die in the streets? **
As Catholics, we will be judge at the Great White Throne Judgement on Christ’s commands. Matthew 25:31-40
So in this election we are faced with the dilemma of two sets of abhorrent Evil moral issues. Abortion and Same Sex Marriage and the other the elimination of programs that could cause undue suffering and even death on those that can not help themselves, seniors, children, disabled, the sick, veterans, and the poor.
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Luigi_Daniele
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The Great Depression was caused by Smoot-Hawley (ie, protectionism). It was made worse by FDR’s socialist policies.
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iohannes13
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Ouch
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ProVobis
Guest
Taxation implies redistribution and the only politician I know who wants to abolish all taxes is Ron Paul.
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iohannes13
Guest
It wasn’t created by the feds letting the company’s run free to do as they pleased? They defintetly did not regulate the banks which were big contributors to the Depression. The working class was the most affected. You probably know that many did not work for 6 months. How were these people going to eat? During this period, the rift between the wealth of powerful corporations and workers expanded. This problem has never been resolved. FDR’s policies may have made matters worse because of the stresses they caused on the economy etc., but he was trying to help people. Can you blame him for that? As I understand Romeny’s Mexican dad benefited some similar programs. He and his family had to eat. No issue there right he depended on a socialist policy.
We all benefit from policies that try to help the nation that you call socialist. The cancer research I mentioned. The government funds the research with our tax dollars. Oh but wait, something has gone wrong. I did forget that the government gives the results to pharmaceuticals so that they can make and sell the medications that the research developed. They in turn around and sell the meds at such high prices that many American cannot afford them. Very unfair I think. Seems like our tax dollars are subsidizing their profits.
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ProVobis
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Exactly. And except for Ron Paul, no politician wants to abolish taxation.
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Jeanne_S
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Amen!
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ProVobis
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Most of the private insurers were covering abortions as well, even before Obamacare. No politician as far as I know has even attempted to stop that.
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rlg94086
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Other than the politicians who are in favor of banning all abortions. Since it is legal, it wouldn’t make sense to be attempting to stop private enterprises from paying for it.
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ProVobis
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Why? It doesn’t have to be about neighborhoods. You don’t campaign in Mississippi to fix a problem in Illinois.
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LisaA
Guest
Again reiterating the obvious. America is not a pure capitalist country. However with the caveat of reasonable regulation, the purer the capitalism the more prosperity.
Government meddling provides cost without adding value. For example the Community Reinvestment Act forced banks to provide loans to people who could not prove they could pay them in a desire to provide more housing in minority communities. Great intention but what happened is that rather than helping minorities, it helped greedy or naive people to buy homes that eventually were repossessed. Because the RISK of making those loans was transferred from the banks and from the borrower to the TAXPAYER again capitalism’s provisions were thwarted and what happened? The housing bubble burst.
What SHOULD have happened? Risk should never have transferred from the banks to the taxpayers. It simply stimulated absolute recklessness.
Dodd Frank has been a disaster, adding layer upon layer of regulations that have basically made borrowing impossible. This paralyzes the already anemic housing market makes it impossible to expand and hire for small businesses.
Obamacare is the poster child for adding COST but not adding value. Not one cent of Obamacare’s many taxes and fees nor one regulation is going to IMPROVE medical care.
IOW yes capitalism has its flaws and if you are aware of the flaws and provide some kind of reasonable regulations fine. But the governments have simply destroyed the economy with all of the layers and layers and layers of pointless meddling and interfering.
The beauty of capitalism is that it understands human nature and it uses human nature to the advantage of the many. The problem of socialism is that it does NOT understand human nature and tries to pretend that a certain cadre of brainiacs can run the world.
BTW democracies CAN and have elected tyrants.
Lisa
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ProVobis
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I agree. But as long as you depend on foreigners and the printing press for new capital, you’ll never see anything that remotely resembles pure capitalism.
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ProVobis
Guest
Bring back the Roaring Twenties.
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LisaA
Guest
Bring back “Silent Cal” who stopped a potential depression by NOT interfering as did his successors!Bring back the Roaring Twenties.
Lisa
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Luigi_Daniele
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Nicely done:thumbsup:
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iohannes13
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To reiterate the obvious*
Excerpts from following:
vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#more-1160
Without question Pope Benedict XVI is strongly critical of Marxism in its totalitarian and materialist forms, and yet he has been no less critical of the capitalist vision espoused by many Western nations. Very often the terms of economic debate follow a framework of capitalism vs. communism without considering that both economic systems are based upon deficient anthropologies that serve as the bedrock for each system.*
Capitalism is not to be considered the only valid form of economics, claims Pope Benedict XVI. The Holy Father–following closely his immediate predecessor–sees the historical result of unbridled capitalism to be the disproportion of quality of life between rich and poor and the destruction of the environment. Pope Benedict XVI proposes the sharing of goods and solidarity among peoples–two concepts utterly foreign to capitalism as a system–as solutions to this negative consumerist trend in the West. And yet, communism is not the solution. Rather, Pope Benedict XVI suggests that a “conversion” is needed–even among Catholics!
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/angelus/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_ang_20070923_en.html
And from here:
zenit.org/article-17780?l=english
In his address the Pope said that “in the modern world it is more than ever important to affirm the bonds that unite countries, with special attention toward the poorest nations.”
The Pontiff continued: "It is not possible to continue using the wealth of the poorest countries with impunity, without them also being able to participate in world growth.
"Authorities in all countries have a duty to work together to ensure greater distribution of the wealth and resources of the planet.*
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LisaA
Guest
Again what is your point? You can’t seem to provide any information that would support your desire for a collectivist, socialist type structure in this country.
Does anything I said about the plethora of ineffective and burdensome regulations counter the Holy Father’s writings? Does the Holy Father think Obamacare with its abortion and contraception and IPAB anti-life provisions provides something helpful to the poor?
Does anything I said about not having the Wild West and total free capitalism connect with you? BECAUSE capitalism understands human nature, it has the ability to use the good and the bad within us to create prosperity.
You argue against points I didn’t make and provide nothing to support your apparent belief that collectivism/socialism/communism is a superior system. Further did you read the statistics on how two countries with similar geographic locations vary greatly because one is capitalist and one is communist? Do you think it is rampant CAPITALISM that causes all of the misery in the Third World? Really? It’s the corruption and totalitarianism that creates poverty and misery, not the Dow Jones.
There are many Catholic teachings that comport well with smaller more local government emphasis. Further when a country and its people are prosperous, they are generous. Poor people can’t share what they don’t have. What we should want is MORE prosperity, not more rules, taxes and oppression.
Lisa
meltzerboy
New member
And how many “dim-witted and envious folks” (love that phrase, BTW) would you say there are? I’m guessing perhaps about 47%?
- Status