Romney stands by message in secret video

[seekerz]

Actually that wasn’t my statement I just went back to get the statement that started the whole “who relates to you” and the poster’s preference was “someone with a background…” reporting the mother’s use of food stamps and fights with insurance companies as evidence that Obama can relate to poor people. Several countered with the reality that he had a relatively privileged background with a million dollar education—Occidental, Harvard Law and Columbia are probably not the places where one rubs elbows with the poor. At any rate I don’t think we can assume one way or the other that his background or Romney’s mean they can or can’t relate to the average person. But I think we need to be honest and not portray Obama as Oliver Twist or Romney as Richie Rich.

BTW Obama’s community organizing was focused on union activities and unionizing workers rather than what one generally considers work with ‘the poor.’ He was hired because a union was unable to get anyone who could work with the black workers in Chicago. He certainly has a longstanding relationship and support of union activities.

Whether one can relate to either candidate probably has more to do with our own background. I relate easily to Mitt Romney because he’s a rich businessman. I have worked with and for rich businessmen for 30+ years. I can speak their language. I understand their decision process. OTOH a union activist/community organizer is to me a completely foreign concept. When people say Obama is more likeable I am quite honestly confused because to me Mitt Romney is far more appealing in a personal sense.

Just a lot to do with where we are coming from.

Lisa

To each his own I suppose. I could not possibly relate to a person who thinks that advising someone to go borrow from their parents to start a business, is somehow practical advice for the non-wealthy. Not saying that the concept of borrowing from one’s parents is foreign, but the idea that the random entrepreneur walking off the street typically has parents rich enough to fund a start up biz, is, let’s just say, somewhat ‘out there’.

 

[seekerz]

To use your favorite word, it’s “obvious.”

Not by the criteria outlined in that post, it’s not.

 

[rlg94086]

Not by the criteria outlined in that post, it’s not.

You didn’t present criteria for your statements that Obama is “obviously an intelligent man” or that his understanding of the disadvantage are “obvious.”

 

[LisaA]

To each his own I suppose. I could not possibly relate to a person who thinks that advising someone to go borrow from their parents to start a business, is somehow practical advice for the non-wealthy. Not saying that the concept of borrowing from one’s parents is foreign, but the idea that the random entrepreneur walking off the street typically has parents rich enough to fund a start up biz, is, let’s just say, somewhat ‘out there’.

Seekerz in all fairness I think you read ABOUT things Romney said or did but don’t actually hear the words or read the text. The “borrow from your parents” statement was part of a speech to what appeared to be a group of students where he suggested that one of the great things about America is that we can chase our dreams and he suggests to these young people to do this…“get an education, borrow money from your parents to start a business…” this was ONE idea in a group of ideas to tell the young people that they have many options because of the freedom of this country. He also went onto describe how a couple of well known businesses were formed, one “Jimmy John’s” was indeed the result of a young man who didn’t want to go to college and asked his dad for a loan. He also talked about Papa John’s Pizza and how that started from one restaurant and now has grown nationwide.

He was not simply telling some young person “go borrow from Daddy Warbucks” but giving these young people some inspiration, some ideas and letting them know they have the opportunity to truly chase their dreams.

You know it saddens me that the media is SO invested in Obama that they would do ANYTHING to demean Mitt Romney who is an honest and decent man. Regardless of whether you think he should be President, he should not have to be constantly fighting the lies and misinformation that the media regurgitates on a daily basis.

Lisa

PS I can get you the link to the speech if you want to hear it for yourself.

 

[seekerz]

You didn’t present criteria for your statements that Obama is “obviously an intelligent man” or that his understanding of the disadvantage are “obvious.”

That’s the point, I did not, but the poster he was responding to DID present criteria - which were simply ignored.

BTW, intelligence (similarly understanding, and rapport with people) ARE pretty obvious qualities which need no elaboration. Ya either got them or ya don’t and anyone can see that.

 

[seekerz]

Seekerz in all fairness I think you read ABOUT things Romney said or did but don’t actually hear the words or read the text. The “borrow from your parents” statement was part of a speech to what appeared to be a group of students where he suggested that one of the great things about America is that we can chase our dreams and he suggests to these young people to do this…“get an education, borrow money from your parents to start a business…” this was ONE idea in a group of ideas to tell the young people that they have many options because of the freedom of this country. He also went onto describe how a couple of well known businesses were formed, one “Jimmy John’s” was indeed the result of a young man who didn’t want to go to college and asked his dad for a loan. He also talked about Papa John’s Pizza and how that started from one restaurant and now has grown nationwide.

He was not simply telling some young person “go borrow from Daddy Warbucks” but giving these young people some inspiration, some ideas and letting them know they have the opportunity to truly chase their dreams.

You know it saddens me that the media is SO invested in Obama that they would do ANYTHING to demean Mitt Romney who is an honest and decent man. Regardless of whether you think he should be President, he should not have to be constantly fighting the lies and misinformation that the media regurgitates on a daily basis.

Lisa

PS I can get you the link to the speech if you want to hear it for yourself.

And I suggested that he gave what advice? The same as you’re describing. It was generic advice given to the average young graduate looking to fund his/her dream and it still bears no practical relationship to the financial situation of people I know (and I do know a few families with graduates). Shucks, for many families, getting a kid through college is their crowning achievement.

So whatever the circumstances or the audience, this advice is simply not applicable to many regular people. Perhaps one could argue that parents should be able to fund start-ups when their kids graduate - the reality is that many cannot.

 

[Jeanne_S]

That’s the point, I did not, but the poster he was responding to DID present criteria - which were simply ignored.

BTW, intelligence (similarly understanding, and rapport with people) ARE pretty obvious qualities which need no elaboration. Ya either got them or ya don’t and anyone can see that.

I suppose you have a point there,I have noticed that Obama,Hillary and even Al Gore had this uncanny ability to chane their manner of speech to appeal to whatever crowd they were addressing. From community organizer,to articulate,to preacher like,whatever they need to do!

 

[seekerz]

I suppose you have a point there,I have noticed that Obama,Hillary and even Al Gore had this uncanny ability to chane their manner of speech to appeal to whatever crowd they were addressing. From community organizer,to articulate,to preacher like,whatever they need to do!

Everybody I know can do that. Formal speech for formal functions and business settings, colloquial speech when hitting the town with old friends, more reserved conversation for Grandma Gertie and Aunt Jo…who doesn’t do it?

 

[Jeanne_S]

Everybody I know can do that. Formal speech for formal functions and business settings, colloquial speech when hitting the town with old friends, more reserved conversation for Grandma Gertie and Aunt Jo…who doesn’t do it?

Yeah,right…

 

[anp1215]

To lighten the discussion a bit… Well anp, it looks like you don’t pay more tax than you are required to legally pay. So I (or Romney) pronounce you qualified to be POTUS! Or at least not disqualified on those grounds.

Yes the people who believe big government IS the answer would be hard to convince that they should take responsibility. My understanding based on what you have said is that you are taking responsibility and do not want to be on the government’s various programs.

The problem with this snippet of dialogue is that it is not only missing some of the footage but also Romney mangled the concept by not distinguishing which group he referred to and the context in a clear fashion. I listened to the actual recording and there are things you can only understand by hearing versus reading. The way someone emphasizes a sentence or concept can make a huge difference in how it is interpreted.

His overall concept is that there are people who are dependent on government, there are also people who don’t pay taxes. These are not necessarily the same people but the way he explained it was confusing. Now some of these people are perfectly happy depending on the government and those are the people he referred to. There is nothing he can say now to convince them that a growing economy will do more for them than another government program. They just don’t see it. Maybe they will see it someday but with less than 50 days to go, Romney can’t spend time trying to convince the skeptics. He needs to focus on people who don’t like the status quo, who want opportunities not another government check.

So as he said he can’t “worry about those people” who are unlikely to listen to him in the short time before the election. Poorly worded and confusing if you just read the dialogue and also if you didn’t hear his subsequent explanation. Unfortunately the Left is grabbing those few words “cant worry about them” and instead of correctly noting this referred to getting their VOTE, they make it sound as if he’s ready to push them off a cliff. That is not what he intended to be the interpretation.

Lisa

I guess we are just reading it completely differently.

 

[estesbob]

And I suggested that he gave what advice? The same as you’re describing. It was generic advice given to the average young graduate looking to fund his/her dream and it still bears no practical relationship to the financial situation of people I know (and I do know a few families with graduates). Shucks, for many families, getting a kid through college is their crowning achievement.

So whatever the circumstances or the audience, this advice is simply not applicable to many regular people. Perhaps one could argue that parents should be able to fund start-ups when their kids graduate - the reality is that many cannot.

So where who’s responsibility is to provide money for ones education and/or seed money for a business start up? T

 

[LisaA]

And I suggested that he gave what advice? The same as you’re describing. It was generic advice given to the average young graduate looking to fund his/her dream and it still bears no practical relationship to the financial situation of people I know (and I do know a few families with graduates). Shucks, for many families, getting a kid through college is their crowning achievement.

So whatever the circumstances or the audience, this advice is simply not applicable to many regular people. Perhaps one could argue that parents should be able to fund start-ups when their kids graduate - the reality is that many cannot.

Honestly Seekerz do you have to try hard to be so obtuse? He’s giving a speech to a group of students. The talk is tailored to the audience. As you said, he’s giving advice that applies to students…in every speech he can’t address every possible interest group. When he speaks to a group of businessmen or a group of soldiers or a group of moms, likely he will tailor the speech to their interests. What is wrong with speaking to your audience?

Your original statement implied he was being elitist “borrow money from your parents” as if all parents had money to loan. That wasn’t even the context, it was just one of a group of ideas. Further he followed up the suggestions with a couple of success stories. I think that’s a great way to inspire people that “you CAN do this too!” instead of telling young people they are incapable and helpless without government largesse.

I thought it was a lovely, inspiring speech. The students laughed and engaged in the process. They seemed to enjoy it and appreciate the ideas and suggestions.

But hey if it’s so important to make Romney look bad even as he’s trying to do something positive for young people, you’ve got a lot of company.

Lisa

 

[seekerz]

So where who’s responsibility is to provide money for ones education and/or seed money for a business start up? T

Most regular people I know apply for a bank loan, or try to find interested investors. Of course, government policies can make loans harder or easier to obtain and/or pay back.

 

[seekerz]

Honestly Seekerz do you have to try hard to be so obtuse? He’s giving a speech to a group of students. The talk is tailored to the audience. As you said, he’s giving advice that applies to students…in every speech he can’t address every possible interest group. When he speaks to a group of businessmen or a group of soldiers or a group of moms, likely he will tailor the speech to their interests. What is wrong with speaking to your audience?

Your original statement implied he was being elitist “borrow money from your parents” as if all parents had money to loan. That wasn’t even the context, it was just one of a group of ideas. Further he followed up the suggestions with a couple of success stories. I think that’s a great way to inspire people that “you CAN do this too!” instead of telling young people they are incapable and helpless without government largesse.

I thought it was a lovely, inspiring speech. The students laughed and engaged in the process. They seemed to enjoy it and appreciate the ideas and suggestions.

But hey if it’s so important to make Romney look bad even as he’s trying to do something positive for young people, you’ve got a lot of company.

Lisa

Your “obtuse” comment made me chuckle. My last response pertained directly to students, most of whom, to my knowledge, could not open a business by asking their parents for seed money. It really doesn’t take that many words to spell out reality.

 

[meltzerboy]

Honestly Seekerz do you have to try hard to be so obtuse? He’s giving a speech to a group of students. The talk is tailored to the audience. As you said, he’s giving advice that applies to students…in every speech he can’t address every possible interest group. When he speaks to a group of businessmen or a group of soldiers or a group of moms, likely he will tailor the speech to their interests. What is wrong with speaking to your audience?

Your original statement implied he was being elitist “borrow money from your parents” as if all parents had money to loan. That wasn’t even the context, it was just one of a group of ideas. Further he followed up the suggestions with a couple of success stories. I think that’s a great way to inspire people that “you CAN do this too!” instead of telling young people they are incapable and helpless without government largesse.

I thought it was a lovely, inspiring speech. The students laughed and engaged in the process. They seemed to enjoy it and appreciate the ideas and suggestions.

But hey if it’s so important to make Romney look bad even as he’s trying to do something positive for young people, you’ve got a lot of company.

Lisa

I’m sure Romney’s intentions were good and maybe some of his advice was intelligent and inspirational, but even out of context the advice to borrow money from one’s parents does show that Romney is somewhat out of touch with what hard-working, middle-class parents can afford. True, it’s not the whole speech but coming from Romney, it reinforces the opinion some have of his elitism.

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

I’m sure Romney’s intentions were good and maybe some of his advice was intelligent and inspirational, but even out of context the advice to borrow money from one’s parents does show that Romney is somewhat out of touch with what hard-working, middle-class parents can afford. True, it’s not the whole speech but coming from Romney, it reinforces the opinion some have of his elitism.

My parents were not even a little bit wealthy, but they were happy to lend us money for a
good reason. I don’t think he is out-of-touch at all. We were not able to qualify for a loan
at the time we needed it,( too young, little credit history) but our parents knew us well
enough to know that we would repay it. We did.

 

[LisaA]

I’m sure Romney’s intentions were good and maybe some of his advice was intelligent and inspirational, but even out of context the advice to borrow money from one’s parents does show that Romney is somewhat out of touch with what hard-working, middle-class parents can afford. True, it’s not the whole speech but coming from Romney, it reinforces the opinion some have of his elitism.

Honestly don’t work so hard to make Romney look bad. How many of us have borrowed money from our parents? I’d really be surprised if the majority of posters on CAF either didn’t borrow money from parents at some point or conversely AS parents loaned money to their children. Do you really think this is out of the mainstream?

This is a totally middle class experience, not something for the rich alone. Further if people would actually listen to the speech they would see he was speaking to students and giving them some ideas about preparing for the future. How many such speeches suggest getting further education or starting a business or otherwise following your dreams and passions? This is a very typical speech given to students. I imagine Barack Obama gives a similar speech when speaking to young people. In fact I heard the same stuff when I graduated high school and college.

It just seems to me that no matter what Romney says or does, no matter how positive or inspiring, he gets dissed by what I consider the envious. We’ve had very wealthy men run for President in the past, from both parties, but until this class warfare tactic hit center stage, I’ve never seen such negative talk about being and sharing success.

I guess the better approach would be to suggest “curse God and die” since that would make us all equally miserable.

Lisa

 

[seekerz]

Honestly don’t work so hard to make Romney look bad. How many of us have borrowed money from our parents? I’d really be surprised if the majority of posters on CAF either didn’t borrow money from parents at some point or conversely AS parents loaned money to their children. Do you really think this is out of the mainstream?

This is a totally middle class experience, not something for the rich alone. Further if people would actually listen to the speech they would see he was speaking to students and giving them some ideas about preparing for the future. How many such speeches suggest getting further education or starting a business or otherwise following your dreams and passions? This is a very typical speech given to students. I imagine Barack Obama gives a similar speech when speaking to young people. In fact I heard the same stuff when I graduated high school and college.

It just seems to me that no matter what Romney says or does, no matter how positive or inspiring, he gets dissed by what I consider the envious. We’ve had very wealthy men run for President in the past, from both parties, but until this class warfare tactic hit center stage, I’ve never seen such negative talk about being and sharing success.

I guess the better approach would be to suggest “curse God and die” since that would make us all equally miserable.

Lisa

Why so glum, Lisa? If we want to learn the right attitudes to wealth and poverty, we have to look no further than the Gospels; not that your quote is inaccurate either, because Job learned through his ordeal, the right attitude to earthly wealth. The saints also have much to teach us about attitudes to the poor.

As Catholics we all know that what we do for anyone is done for God, so this is not simply a question of who should or should not give to whom. Ultimately, as Job learned, it all comes from Him and it can just as easily return to Him. Human beings need to lighten up a bit on this notion of personal success because not a one of us could even ‘succeed’ in getting out of bed in the morning without God’s mercy.

On a different note, I’d be the first to admit loaning money from my parents. I just could not imagine them being able to loan me enough for me to start a business AFTER helping me get a college education. Happily, those were not my real life choices, since I had great help from other sources.

Stating the obvious: that Romney seems out of touch with the financial challenges faced by present-day middle class America, does NOT equate to making him a bad person, so I don’t understand your reaction at all.

 

[LisaA]

Why so glum, Lisa? If we want to learn the right attitudes to wealth and poverty, we have to look no further than the Gospels; not that your quote is inaccurate either, because Job learned through his ordeal, the right attitude to earthly wealth. The saints also have much to teach us about attitudes to the poor.

As Catholics we all know that what we do for anyone is done for God, so this is not simply a question of who should or should not give to whom. Ultimately, as Job learned, it all comes from Him and it can just as easily return to Him. Human beings need to lighten up a bit on this notion of personal success because not a one of us could even ‘succeed’ in getting out of bed in the morning without God’s mercy.

On a different note, I’d be the first to admit loaning money from my parents. I just could not imagine them being able to loan me enough for me to start a business AFTER helping me get a college education. Happily, those were not my real life choices, since I had great help from other sources.

Stating the obvious: that Romney seems out of touch with the financial challenges faced by present-day middle class America, does NOT equate to making him a bad person, so I don’t understand your reaction at all.

Again I do NOT think Romney has in any way indicated he’s out of touch. Borrowing or loaning money within a family is a very common practice. Obviously a wealthy parent can loan more but I would venture to guess this is very common. Further the suggestion to the students to get further education seems pretty mainstream. Don’t most parents want their children to get an education regardless of socioeconomic background?

Further I think Romney HAS demonstrated the right attitude toward wealth and success. He has been extremely charitable—last year donated 30% of his income. Compare to Joe Biden who has given an average of $369 a year. Further he has also given his time in service to others. He does not seem arrogant or self congratulatory about his wealth and success. If anything he is often criticized for being to self effacing which is used against him. If all he wanted to do was make piles of money, he’s had many many other opportunities including turning down a $30 million dollar a year job offered after he dropped out of the 2008 race. Everything I see is of a generous and grateful man who loves God, loves his family and loves his country.

BTW Job wasn’t the one getting the lesson, it was his friends and family. Job always had faith, they didn’t. His faith was justified.

Lisa

 

[gamewell45]

content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2012/09/17/romney-47-percent-video-response/70000549/1

I think his remarks have further damaged his campaign even more. Several of my friends who are independents (we have coffee together once a week and discuss politics) have indicated that they were undecided, however given Romney’s remarks (all of them ave jobs), they are offended and will now most likely support Obama in his quest for re-election.

You can bet democrats will play this to the maximum to gain political advantage after all its election year.