Ron Paul Backs "Ground Zero Mosque," Splitting with Son Rand

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Sabda said:
Having said this I don’t agree with the Federal government stepping into this. But that doesn’t mean that the mayor and board should have just blindly agreed to allow this. If this group that is wanting to build this mosque, where truly interested in building bridges they would take into account the many people they are hurting by this and the even larger group who are objecting to this and build the mosque somewhere else. The fact that they are refusing says volumes about their interesting, or lack thereof, in building bridges.
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Maybe, since they had the mosque planned prior to 9/11, they feel more commonality with the rest of NYC than with the attackers?

Under the supposed guise of Christianity, the Klan murdered a Jewish businessman by the name of Leo Frank in Atlanta. I guess then there should be no new Christian churches in Atlanta due to its history of religion-based terroristic murder.
 
Alexander_Smith said:
To add to my previous statement, I would like to say that despite how I feel about Islam and a Mosque near GZ, I do NOT think the state or federal government has a right to prevent this from happening. They have their building permits, they have their contractors, it’s their right to build it. That said, I do understand why people would object to it, but if the government steps in to prevent this, it will be a bad move, and an overplay of their power.
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Agreed.
It’s not the government’s place to step in.
If they can step in here, they could step in if we, as Catholics, wanted to build a shrine or cathedral somewhere and people were opposed
 
I think he is missing the argument. I think few Republicans are denying the right that they have to build there. If this is happening, them Paul (and Obama) have a point. I think the protest is about whether they should build there. In which case, free speech dictates that Americans have a right to decry this as entirely inappropriate.

Does anyone know if his son, Rand, advocated blocking construction governmentally?

BTW - Put me down as an Islmaphobe. Like rattlesnakes, I know that they all do not bite. But enough of them do to give me a healthy respect for the potential danger.
 
pnewton said:
Does anyone know if his son, Rand, advocated blocking construction governmentally?
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“While this is a local matter that should be decided by the people of New York, Dr. Paul does not support a mosque being built two blocks from Ground Zero,” Paul spokesperson Gary Howard told TPMDC. “In Dr. Paul’s opinion, the Muslim community would better serve the healing process by making a donation to the memorial fund for the victims of September 11th.”

voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/08/ron-paul-rands-his-own-man.html

Constitutional rights are subject to local approval?
 
j1akey said:
According to the FBI only 6% of terrorist attacks against the US between 1980 and 2005 were caused by muslims. That number is 0.4% in Europe.

fbi.gov/publications/terror/terrorism2002_2005.htm

Must we continue this muslim bashing garbage?
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By FBI standards, the
March 18, 2002, Pennsylvania State Police discovered heavy equipment used to clear trees at a construction site in Erie, Pennsylvania, spray painted with the statements “ELF, in the protection of mother earth,” and “Stop Deforestation.”
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is given the same weight as the Beruit barracks bombing.
 
j1akey said:
According to the FBI only 6% of terrorist attacks against the US between 1980 and 2005 were caused by muslims. That number is 0.4% in Europe.

fbi.gov/publications/terror/terrorism2002_2005.htm
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I’m not sure where you got the 6%. I can’t find it in the report (nor the 0.4% in Europe). however, the report did say (emphasis mine):
With the exception of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, the major terrorist acts or attempts against U.S. interests leading into the 21st century stemmed from militant Islamic jihad, guided directly or indirectly by al-Qa’ida. These include the following:
  • On August 7, 1998, al-Qa’ida operatives carried out near-simultaneous bombings of the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. These attacks, which took place against targets considered “soft” and in low-threat countries, resulted in 224 deaths and 5,722 injuries. The small number of Americans among the casualties (12 dead and seven wounded) highlighted the indiscriminate nature of, and collateral damage inflicted by, large-scale terrorist attacks even when directed against specific targets.
  • On December 14, 1999, U.S. border guards at Port Angeles, Washington, arrested Ahmed Ressam as he attempted to smuggle explosives into the United States from Canada. Investigation by the FBI and other domestic and foreign law enforcement agencies revealed that Ressam had attended al-Qa’ida training camps in Afghanistan and was part of an Algerian terrorist cell based in Canada that had plotted to detonate explosives at Los Angeles International Airport.
  • On October 12, 2000, in the port of Aden, Yemen, pilots of a bomb-laden boat pulled alongside the USS Cole at midship and detonated their explosives in a suicide attack against the destroyer, killing 17 and injuring at least 40 crew members. Investigation revealed that the incident followed an unsuccessful attack on January 3, 2000, against the USS The Sullivans. The alleged conspirators in the Sullivans and Cole attacks were al-Qa’ida operatives who trained in its terrorist camps in Afghanistan during the 1990s. The Cole bombing highlighted al-Qa’ida’s resolve and revealed the network’s a more powerful and technologically more advanced target.
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So I think the original statement was accurate. Most major terrorist attacks are perpetrated by Muslims. Also, as the report notes, most domestic terrorists target material and property, not people. This is a marked difference from the Muslim attacks, which have been primarily about killing people, especially non-combatants (note that the FBI/CIA/etc do not classify attacks on troops as terrorist attacks).

Also, your link only talks about attacks on US interests. The worldwide rate of terrorism, especially in the last 20 to 30 years, has been mostly Islamic in nature. Go look at the Global Terrorism Database I linked to earlier. Look a the data for yourself.
j1akey said:
Must we continue this muslim bashing garbage?
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Bashing? Is that what it is? The numbers speak for themselves.
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
Maybe, since they had the mosque planned prior to 9/11, they feel more commonality with the rest of NYC than with the attackers?

Under the supposed guise of Christianity, the Klan murdered a Jewish businessman by the name of Leo Frank in Atlanta. I guess then there should be no new Christian churches in Atlanta due to its history of religion-based terroristic murder.
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I would say a Christian church at the site of the lynching would be distatsteful.

Any link about the “mosque planned (in that location, I presume) prior 9/11”?
 
Alexander_Smith said:
This is one area where I will disagree with Ron Paul. While Islam is not responsible for all terrorism, there is something amis when nearly all major terrorist attacks in the past few decades can be attributed to islamic terrorists and suicide bombers.
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Only today, three terrorist atrocities were attributed to the Roman Catholic priest James Chesney. There have been many more Protestant and Catholic atrocities in the last few decades than Muslim, but they tend to stick in the head less since they weren’t perpetrated against Americans. Wanna ban the building of Catholic Churches near the village of Claudy?

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305646/Claudy-bombing-priest-James-Chesney-Report-IRA-atrocity-reveals-cover-up.html

No, I don’t either, by the way. I’m not against the building of the mosque, either.
 
kaid100 said:
Only today, three terrorist atrocities were attributed to the Roman Catholic priest James Chesney. There have been many more Protestant and Catholic atrocities in the last few decades than Muslim, but they tend to stick in the head less since they weren’t perpetrated against Americans. Wanna ban the building of Catholic Churches near the village of Claudy?

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305646/Claudy-bombing-priest-James-Chesney-Report-IRA-atrocity-reveals-cover-up.html

No, I don’t either, by the way. I’m not against the building of the mosque, either.
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You wouldn’t find a Catholic Church at McElhinney’s shop and bar on Main Street in Clausey distasteful, and would be surprised if English protested such plans?
 
pnewton said:
I think he is missing the argument. I think few Republicans are denying the right that they have to build there. If this is happening, them Paul (and Obama) have a point. I think the protest is about whether they should build there. In which case, free speech dictates that Americans have a right to decry this as entirely inappropriate.

Does anyone know if his son, Rand, advocated blocking construction governmentally?

BTW - Put me down as an Islmaphobe. Like rattlesnakes, I know that they all do not bite. But enough of them do to give me a healthy respect for the potential danger.
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Based on this I have to call baloney and bias on the original artical, even if it was a CBS headline. The two views are not in conflict. It is a phantom story, a pretend difference. Ron Paul supports the right to build the mosque, not the mosque. His son does not want the mosque built, but defers to the local code.

As to this being a Constitutional issue, I wonder what you are thinking. Where in the Constitution does it mention building permits or zoning restrictions? This has always been an issue left to local governments. I guess you miss your point.
 
scipio337 said:
You wouldn’t find a Catholic Church at McElhinney’s shop and bar on Main Street in Clausey distasteful, and would be surprised if English protested such plans?
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I personally wouldn’t find a church distasteful on any high street, and why would the English care if there was a plan for one? Claudy isn’t in England, and plenty of English people are Catholic. In fact, England’s Catholic Churches are now attended more than Church of England ones.
 
pnewton said:
As to this being a Constitutional issue, I wonder what you are thinking. Where in the Constitution does it mention building permits or zoning restrictions? This has always been an issue left to local governments. I guess you miss your point.
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When one uses a building code as a pretext for religious intolerance, then the constitution is involved.
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
“A longstanding (pre-9/11) effort by a mainstream Muslim community in New York to build a Muslim center that ended up being near what became “Ground Zero” has become Exhibit A in the contest between popular passion and constitutional principle.”

huffingtonpost.com/dr-david-p-gushee/the-shameful-mosque-contr_b_678419.html
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That guy is a moron. He’s the one fostering hatred with that type of junk.

I’ve heard liberals talk about the constitution now more than they ever have. Private property? Where did they learn that word? Freedom of religion? Outside of Islam, this is the first time I’ve seen them promote any religion, they are usually too busy attacking Christianity. Oh, and what religion is it they promote? Yep, the one who has less tolerance outside of the US for homosexuals than any other.
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
When one uses a building code as a pretext for religious intolerance, then the constitution is involved.
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Oh. I could see if another religion built a Church there, but otherwise, I do not think a court would uphold the point (except on the left coast).
 
pnewton said:
Based on this I have to call baloney and bias on the original artical, even if it was a CBS headline. The two views are not in conflict. It is a phantom story, a pretend difference. Ron Paul supports the right to build the mosque, not the mosque. His son does not want the mosque built, but defers to the local code.

As to this being a Constitutional issue, I wonder what you are thinking. Where in the Constitution does it mention building permits or zoning restrictions? This has always been an issue left to local governments. I guess you miss your point.
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I agree with the assessment of “baloney and bias”. The very first sentance reads, “Libertarian Congressman Ron Paul…” and that is completely false. While Paul, Sr. has libertarian roots he serves Congress as a Republican. He is, in fact, my own duly elected Representative in Congress. 👍

Also, nowhere in the article does CBS give any actual proof the Ron Paul is supporting the construction of the mosque, only that the group has valid property rights which should be upheld.

I think everyone knows the group has *the right *to build the mosque. Whether it is a wise, prudent or objectionable decision is what the Constitutionally protected Free Speech discussion is about. 😉
 
pnewton said:
Oh. I could see if another religion built a Church there, but otherwise, I do not think a court would uphold the point (except on the left coast).
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I’ve seen several courts strike down town zoning regs instituted to block mosques. Google ‘Palos Park’ and ‘mosque’.
 
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