Ron Paul delivers farewell address to Congress

[ishii]

 I am pro life from conception, when two living cells merge.

Did you vote effectively to further the pro-life cause? Or did you not vote, or waste your vote on a 3rd party candidate? (I am assuming you didn’t vote for Obama).

Ishii

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Your false historical narrative is disengenuous and getting really old. You have been presented with the facts of all the supreme court nominations over the past 30 years since abortion became a big issue. Nominating supreme court justices who would overturn Roe V wade is not an exact science. If you think that its such an easy matter of “pro-life president gets elected, therefore the Supreme court will overturn Roe V Wade” then you don’t understand how our system works. I would explain it to you again, but you apparently are not concerned with the facts and continue to push this false narrative so that you can use it to bash the Republican party - so what’s the point.

Ishii

Anyone can look up supreme court nominations since Roe vs. Wade, to current times. 8 years of the white house, house, senate, and 7 supreme court justices is not an exact science, but then an exact science is not needed to see majority in all directions. No matter how the system ‘works’, it kind of shoots the one more justice argument in the foot.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Did you vote effectively to further the pro-life cause? Or did you not vote, or waste your vote on a 3rd party candidate? (I am assuming you didn’t vote for Obama).

Ishii

I wrote in a solid pro life candidate. If it was a waste in your eyes, too bad. The lesser of two evils argument doesn’t set well with me. We’re not allowed to do a ‘little’ evil so that good may come of it, and God doesn’t grade on the curve.

How does any of this apply to the topic of the thread?

 

[ishii]

Anyone can look up supreme court nominations since Roe vs. Wade, to current times. 8 years of the white house, house, senate, and 7 supreme court justices is not an exact science, but then an exact science is not needed to see majority in all directions.

Yes anyone can look up the nominations and analyse them superficially in order to support a specious political point. I prefer to look at the reality based on politics. It makes it harder to bash the GOP that way, but it has the advantage of being truthful.

No matter how the system ‘works’, it kind of shoots the one more justice argument in the foot.

Yes, until you get that “one more justice” and Roe V Wade is overturned. But apparently with voters like you, that won’t happen.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

.
How does any of this apply to the topic of the thread?

You’re the one who brought up Republican supreme court nominations, so you tell me.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You’re the one who brought up Republican supreme court nominations, so you tell me.

I said:

We’ve seen years and years of politicians playing moral cards and nothing was changed to stop abortions. Do you doubt that Ron Paul was pro life?

Someone else said:

False, a lot has been done to halt the degree of abortions but those who say these kinds of things help out abortions.

It’s been written a million times how the abortion industry has been taken to task, 25th abortion clinic closed in Abilene Texas among others in the USA.

I will just accept you want to justify your turning away from the unborn of this world.

I responded:

Then you will bear false witness against me.

I am pro life from conception, when two living cells merge.

Republicans had the administration for 8 years, 2 with republicans in the house and senate, and 7 supreme court justices appointed by republicans, and 2 appointed by democrats. No major changes, but those that give appearances of change to maintain the issue and the bloc of voters it attracts.

Notice, I don’t make snide comments towards you, or ‘assume’ to know what you believe, for whatever purpose you felt the need to do it towards me.

Also, you completely ignored the topic of the thread to do it.

That’s where you came in…Do you doubt that Ron Paul was pro life?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Yes anyone can look up the nominations and analyse them superficially in order to support a specious political point. I prefer to look at the reality based on politics. It makes it harder to bash the GOP that way, but it has the advantage of being truthful.

Yes, until you get that “one more justice” and Roe V Wade is overturned. But apparently with voters like you, that won’t happen.

Ishii

It wasn’t happening with voter’s like any of us, no matter how one preferred to view the reality. I just viewed the reality, without trying to bash a partisan party. That pushed me over into Ron Paul’s corner.

 

[ishii]

I said:

Someone else said:

I responded:

That’s where you came in…Do you doubt that Ron Paul was pro life?

Here is what you said that I responded to: (my bold italics)

***Republicans had the administration for 8 years, 2 with republicans in the house and senate, and 7 supreme court justices appointed by republicans, and 2 appointed by democrats. *** No major changes, but those that give appearances of change to maintain the issue and the bloc of voters it attracts.
.

Which is how we got to talking about the supreme court/GOP. You’re right it might be off topic, but I didn’t want to let your post go without a response because I see this line of reasoning pushed all the time here and I believe it is false.

Ishii

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Here is what you said that I responded to: (my bold italics)

Which is how we got to talking about the supreme court/GOP. You’re right it might be off topic, but I didn’t want to let your post go without a response because I see this line of reasoning pushed all the time here and I believe it is false.

Ishii

As I said, it was that realization that drove me to support Ron Paul.

 

[ishii]

As I said, it was that realization that drove me to support Ron Paul.

Right - but where we disagree is that I wouldn’t call it a “realization” but a misinterpretation of history that based on a disregard for political reality. I have given you examples of why I believe this to be true. Haven’t heard a convincing response from your side, yet.

Ishii

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

You’re the one who brought up Republican supreme court nominations, so you tell me.

I am still wondering why both Republicans and Democrats continue to bow to the Supreme Court.

Why do we give 9 unelected jurists so much power? With the seating of Kagan and Sotomeyor, we all know we aren’t getting the brightest bulbs in the box anymore. Even Roberts, his extraordinary ability to memorize everything notwithstanding, leaves me questioning his capacity to evaluate the plain text of the constitution against cases brought before him.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Right - but where we disagree is that I wouldn’t call it a “realization” but a misinterpretation of history that based on a disregard for political reality. I have given you examples of why I believe this to be true. Haven’t heard a convincing response from your side, yet.

Ishii

I have given my reasons. If nothing could be done in the situation I described, nothing could have helped anymore.

Back to Ron Paul leaving congress.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I have given my reasons. If nothing could be done in the situation I described, nothing could have helped anymore.

Back to Ron Paul leaving congress.

The best thing the GOP could do if they want to stay competitive is to make Ron Paul the Chair of the RNC.

Say what you want about his politics or capacity as a legislator, the guy has a track record of honesty, integrity, and sticking to his principles when they are unpopular.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The best thing the GOP could do if they want to stay competitive is to make Ron Paul the Chair of the RNC.

Say what you want about his politics or capacity as a legislator, the guy has a track record of honesty, integrity, and sticking to his principles when they are unpopular.

I agree.

 

[ProVobis]

I am still wondering why both Republicans and Democrats continue to bow to the Supreme Court.

Why do we give 9 unelected jurists so much power?

Good point. I doubt if Roe vs Wade could have made it through both chambers of Congress when abortion was still illegal. (They would have been almost certain that it would fail the 10th amendent test.) So much for checks and balances.

 

[HansTrappist]

The best thing the GOP could do if they want to stay competitive is to make Ron Paul the Chair of the RNC.

Say what you want about his politics or capacity as a legislator, the guy has a track record of honesty, integrity, and sticking to his principles when they are unpopular.

That would be a start. Alas, the Republicans seem now to be shifting their hopes to Jindal and Rubio. I guess some people never learn, even when handed an epic defeat.

And it may even be too late for the Republican Party at this point. Maybe if the Republicans had listened to and rallied behind men like Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul in years past, they would have had a fighting chance against the Democrat coalition. Instead, men like Buchanan and Paul were marginalized and ridiculed and the Republican Party drifted to the center. It may prove to have been a fatal mistake, one from which the Republican Party will never recover, given the demographics of the Democrat coalition.

 

[ProVobis]

That would be a start. Alas, the Republicans seem now to be shifting their hopes to Jindal and Rubio. I guess some people never learn, even when handed an epic defeat.

And it may even be too late for the Republican Party at this point. Maybe if the Republicans had listened to and rallied behind men like Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul in years past, they would have had a fighting chance against the Democrat coalition. Instead, men like Buchanan and Paul were marginalized and ridiculed and the Republican Party drifted to the center. It may prove to have been a fatal mistake, one from which the Republican Party will never recover, given the demographics of the Democrat coalition.

Most “bluedog” Democrats aren’t cheering either.

 

[austenbosten]

That would be a start. Alas, the Republicans seem now to be shifting their hopes to Jindal and Rubio. I guess some people never learn, even when handed an epic defeat.

And it may even be too late for the Republican Party at this point. Maybe if the Republicans had listened to and rallied behind men like Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul in years past, they would have had a fighting chance against the Democrat coalition. Instead, men like Buchanan and Paul were marginalized and ridiculed and the Republican Party drifted to the center. It may prove to have been a fatal mistake, one from which the Republican Party will never recover, given the demographics of the Democrat coalition.

Don’t forget Alan Keyes. Republicans love taking a chainsaw to their foot, to put a wish-washy moderate up…and of course lose.

I think the Republican elite get some sick almost erotic pleasure out of losing every time.

 

[ishii]

That would be a start. Alas, the Republicans seem now to be shifting their hopes to Jindal and Rubio. I guess some people never learn, even when handed an epic defeat.

And it may even be too late for the Republican Party at this point. Maybe if the Republicans had listened to and rallied behind men like Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul in years past, they would have had a fighting chance against the Democrat coalition. Instead, men like Buchanan and Paul were marginalized and ridiculed and the Republican Party drifted to the center. It may prove to have been a fatal mistake, one from which the Republican Party will never recover, given the demographics of the Democrat coalition.

Pat Buchanan, as much as I have a fondness for him that goes back to his Reagan days and Crossfire days, is stuck on the whole “white America is in decline - shut down the borders to protect our culture” mentality. If you think the GOP can build a winning coalition around that then you don’t understand our demographics and the political reality therein.

In any event, Ron Paul is 77 and Buchanan is 74 - I’m guessing the GOP and our country will be better served with candidates like Bobby JIndal and Rubio (and others) who are thoughtful conservatives but can appeal to a wider group of people - the 100% rather than only white America. But they will only be successful to the extent that they can overcome the entitlement society that the left has built as well as the Democrat media complex which actively seeks to protect their own.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

Don’t forget Alan Keyes. Republicans love taking a chainsaw to their foot, to put a wish-washy moderate up…and of course lose.

I think the Republican elite get some sick almost erotic pleasure out of losing every time.

Alan Keyes? He is a smart man, but was never a viable candidate - not for president or even senate. Its not about moderates so much as the culture which the left has created in this country - which makes it easy for a complete failure of a president like Obama to get re-elected. Romney wasn’t the ideal candidate - but he was the best among a weak field. He was done in by a variety of factors and individuals.

Ishii