Ron Paul Thread

[sedonaman]

… and recycling military personnel to use as waiters at White House parties. …

The rumor we heard in our [DoD] office was that junior officers were used for this. It was an obvious insult to the military more than a money-saving move.

 

[oletommyboy]

I agree completely Monte. Im sure others however will tell you how its all propaganda and how its all our fault though. The thing that irks me is that all these people criticize America, defend the politics and actions of terrorists, then say things like stop watching Bill O’Reilly and grab your rosary beads. How about those of us that believe in our country, what it stands for, and understand what it cost to gain the wonderful freedoms that we have and that we’ve helped others to get, continue to be the voice crying out in the wilderness. We can all live in fantasy land where no one is trying to bomb us, no one is crossing the border illegally, the economy is A OK, abortion is a woman’s choice, and Israel is just picking on people. Or we could pull our head out of the sand, deal with our enemies in a manner that will keep them from repeating their crimes, teach American children its great to be just that, return to the morals and principles that made us great to begin with, and stand with our friends when needed, then we will have again assumed our place as the greatest nation ever created by man! Now its time to grab the Rosary beads. God bless you all!

 

[JustaServant]

I agree completely Monte. Im sure others however will tell you how its all propaganda and how its all our fault though. The thing that irks me is that all these people criticize America, defend the politics and actions of terrorists, then say things like stop watching Bill O’Reilly and grab your rosary beads. How about those of us that believe in our country, what it stands for, and understand what it cost to gain the wonderful freedoms that we have and that we’ve helped others to get, continue to be the voice crying out in the wilderness. We can all live in fantasy land where no one is trying to bomb us, no one is crossing the border illegally, the economy is A OK, abortion is a woman’s choice, and Israel is just picking on people. Or we could pull our head out of the sand, deal with our enemies in a manner that will keep them from repeating their crimes, teach American children its great to be just that, return to the morals and principles that made us great to begin with, and stand with our friends when needed, then we will have again assumed our place as the greatest nation ever created by man! Now its time to grab the Rosary beads. God bless you all!

What bothers me the most about this post is how you denegrate the Rosary, the most powerful instrument mankind has ever known, to a backseat position, while war and violence take center stage. Kill’em first and then pray huh? 10 years of bloodshed in the Middle East with NO end in sight.
Tell me, when does this ‘war’ end? Where do we plant our flag? Whose neck do we put our foot on (as the ancient Romans did)? When do bring our young men home? When do we stop sending drones to kill people in countries we are not at war with? Killing American citizens without trial? When does the TSA get dismantled? Oh, and those Americans detained under the Defense Authorization Act, when do they get a trial? For how long do we detain them?
How much of the freedoms you enjoy have to be sacrificed before you scream enough?
How long do you think the neo-cons in Washington, in both parties, can wage war and kill people anywhere in the world, before the world screams enough?
War is a punishment for sin, so said our Lady at Fatima.
You go ahead and wage your armchair war.
I will pray.
Because our Lady said Her Immaculate Heart will triumph in the end.

 

[oletommyboy]

What bothers me the most about this post is how you denegrate the Rosary

 

[JustaServant]

JustaServant;8758996:

You haven’t any idea as to what your talking about! You dont know me from Adam and you have no idea what takes precedent in my life. For you to make such an assertion is cheap an unwarranted. Please amend your behavior. If you dont agree with my politics fine but dont use such cheap tactics to try and make a point that if I dont agree with your viewpoints I am somehow less reverent or holy. We are all called to be saints we just see things differently. God bless.

Please answer these questions below:

Tell me, when does this ‘war’ end? Where do we plant our flag? Whose neck do we put our foot on (as the ancient Romans did)? When do bring our young men home? When do we stop sending drones to kill people in countries we are not at war with? Killing American citizens without trial? When does the TSA get dismantled? Oh, and those Americans detained under the Defense Authorization Act, when do they get a trial? For how long do we detain them?
How much of the freedoms you enjoy have to be sacrificed before you scream enough?
How long do you think the neo-cons in Washington, in both parties, can wage war and kill people anywhere in the world, before the world screams enough?

 

[saveusfromhell]

I agree completely Monte. Im sure others however will tell you how its all propaganda and how its all our fault though. The thing that irks me is that all these people criticize America, defend the politics and actions of terrorists, then say things like stop watching Bill O’Reilly and grab your rosary beads. How about those of us that believe in our country, what it stands for, and understand what it cost to gain the wonderful freedoms that we have and that we’ve helped others to get, continue to be the voice crying out in the wilderness. We can all live in fantasy land where no one is trying to bomb us, no one is crossing the border illegally, the economy is A OK, abortion is a woman’s choice, and Israel is just picking on people. Or we could pull our head out of the sand, deal with our enemies in a manner that will keep them from repeating their crimes, teach American children its great to be just that, return to the morals and principles that made us great to begin with, and stand with our friends when needed, then we will have again assumed our place as the greatest nation ever created by man! Now its time to grab the Rosary beads. God bless you all!

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

AND for 8 LONG years, President Bill Clinton IGNORED one attack after another … the U.S. S. Cole sinking, the blowing up of two or our embassies … [all embassies are considered to be sovereign territory of the home country, by the way] … and HE SAVED MONEY by cutting our military by 50% … and claimed a peace dividend … and recycling military personnel to use as waiters at White House parties.

And what did that get us? It got us 9/11.

Umm, did you forget about that whole sanction thing with Iran? Kind of a big deal.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Umm, did you forget about that whole sanction thing with Iran? Kind of a big deal.

Specifically, which sanctions are you referring to?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iran

There are 200 countries in the world.

Iran can trade with 195 of them.

And even the sanctioners still trade, but do so in a covert manner.

People make a big deal about Iran having to import gasoline. But there is nothing to prevent Iran from expanding its gasoline refinery capacity. Only the Iranians are preventing themselves from acting peacefully.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

What bothers me the most about this post is how you denegrate the Rosary, the most powerful instrument mankind has ever known, to a backseat position, while war and violence take center stage. Kill’em first and then pray huh? 10 years of bloodshed in the Middle East with NO end in sight.
Tell me, when does this ‘war’ end? Where do we plant our flag? Whose neck do we put our foot on (as the ancient Romans did)? When do bring our young men home? When do we stop sending drones to kill people in countries we are not at war with? Killing American citizens without trial? When does the TSA get dismantled? Oh, and those Americans detained under the Defense Authorization Act, when do they get a trial? For how long do we detain them?
How much of the freedoms you enjoy have to be sacrificed before you scream enough?
How long do you think the neo-cons in Washington, in both parties, can wage war and kill people anywhere in the world, before the world screams enough?
War is a punishment for sin, so said our Lady at Fatima.
You go ahead and wage your armchair war.
I will pray.
Because our Lady said Her Immaculate Heart will triumph in the end.

Keep in mind that during the largest naval battle in history, people lined the shoreline praying the Rosary.

But AT THE EXACT SAME TIME, thousands of sailors were fighting and dying in the Battle of Lepanto.

The Rosary didn’t prevent all those deaths … but … there was a miraculous change in wind direction. And THAT wind change converted a defeat into victory. But without those sailors fighting and dying, Europe would have been overrun.

So … NO ONE is denigrating the Rosary.

But Freedom isn’t free.

Our soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen have been fighting and dying for more than 200 years in defense of freedom. And they also pray.

Hitler was not defeated exclusively by praying the Rosary.

Prayer was vital.

But without the military, and a lot of miracles, the West / Christianity prevailed.

WWII could easily have gone the other way.

All it would have taken was for the West to make one more mistake or for Hitler to make one less mistake.

But, we still have to man the defenses. However described.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

… in 1953 when we overthrew their democratically appointed president and installed the Shah.

I guess you didn’t know that we intentionally overthrew the legitimate government of Iran in 1953.

[this didn’t actually happen.]

 

[pismopal]

When two countries go to war, before the first bullets are even fired, trade between the country is ceased. That is why sanctions are an act of war.

And what would you call Iran’s seizure of our embassy in 1979 and the imprisoning of our embassy personnel? These acts were unprecedented and unanswered by force of arms.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Yes, it is horrible. Our sanctions against Iraq were responsible for the deaths of 150,000 Iraqi children.

None of this is true, either.

Saddam deliberately chose to use his foreign exchange gained from secret oil sales to buy more toys for himself. The now-famous “Oil for Palaces” program, with the connivance of high level United Nations officials.

If, and that’s a big if, people in Iraq died it was because Saddam deliberately chose to buy more luxury goods for himself rather than medical stuff for the people of Iraq.

 

[oletommyboy]

NO ONE is denigrating the Rosary.

But Freedom isn’t free.

Our soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen have been fighting and dying for more than 200 years in defense of freedom. And they also pray.

Hitler was not defeated exclusively by praying the Rosary.

Prayer was vital.

But without the military, and a lot of miracles, the West / Christianity prevailed.

WWII could easily have gone the other way.

All it would have taken was for the West to make one more mistake or for Hitler to make one less mistake.

But, we still have to man the defenses. However described.

Well said and I couldnt agree more.

 

[saveusfromhell]

for 1500 years ireland spread christanity now it spreads atheism.
because your leaders were once honourable men does not mean that your present leaders have the same ideals.
man the defenses where? Iran Iraq Afhganistan who is mounting the defenses gainst the American’s
by your former presidents reasoning England should have nuked France during the IRA bombing campaigns.

 

[gilliam]

Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) blasted Ron Paul’s foreign policy views Friday in an interview with The Hill and hinted that he might endorse someone else in order to try and stop Paul from winning the Iowa caucuses.

King, a conservative kingmaker in Iowa, said Paul’s foreign policy views are dangerous and have not received enough scrutiny. He said Paul once told him he wants to bring home all American troops.

“What Ron Paul supporters need to think about if they think they can elect him as president, a commander in chief can order all of the armed forces back to the United States,” he told The Hill. "That means no presence anywhere on the globe — our enemies can fill that vacuum with very little resources, and I am very troubled by that.

“I don’t think that’s a worthwhile price to pay to get the good things Ron Paul talks about, like deficit reduction. I don’t think that’s worth sacrificing our national security.”

thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-presidential-primary/201777-steve-king-rips-ron-paul-hints-at-endorsement-to-stop-him

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

And what would you call Iran’s seizure of our embassy in 1979 and the imprisoning of our embassy personnel? These acts were unprecedented and unanswered by force of arms.

The hostage crisis was the rebellion against the government the US set up in Iran.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

None of this is true, either.

Saddam deliberately chose to use his foreign exchange gained from secret oil sales to buy more toys for himself. The now-famous “Oil for Palaces” program, with the connivance of high level United Nations officials.

If, and that’s a big if, people in Iraq died it was because Saddam deliberately chose to buy more luxury goods for himself rather than medical stuff for the people of Iraq.

Opening up trade with Iraq would have gone a long way to feeding the children there.

 

[pnewton]

“I don’t think that’s a worthwhile price to pay to get the good things Ron Paul talks about, like deficit reduction. I don’t think that’s worth sacrificing our national security.”

Deficit reduction is a matter of national security. We should have learned this from the Soviet Union. I fear it is too late already. Projecting more power than one has is a facade that is ready to crumble for this generation. We will be an economic vassal of China unless things change drastically.

 

[gilliam]

Deficit reduction is a matter of national security. We should have learned this from the Soviet Union. I fear it is too late already. Projecting more power than one has is a facade that is ready to crumble for this generation. We will be an economic vassal of China unless things change drastically.

What would be more a matter of national security, IMHO, is to get rid of the dependence we have on foreign oil.

 

[pnewton]

And we already tried non-intervention by ignoring Japan prior to WW-II. It turned out to be another form of appeasement, which, by now it should be clear, doesn’t work…

An interesting point. If memory serves me correctly (which it seldom does now days), didn’t trade sanctions precede Pearl Harbor, and doesn’t this kind of make Ron Paul’s point?

I think there is a confusion that just because was is sometimes justified does not mean we should always be up to some war or another “projecting our power,” as it were.