Rosary during a Ordinary Form Mass?

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The Rosary . . . Originally it was a devotion to replace the recitation of the 150 psalms. It provides different blessings than he psalms, a different perspective that can be helpful to many people. It connects people to the prayer of the Church, but it is not quite the prayer of the Church, the recitation of psalms and scripture that every priest takes part in.

. . . . Vatican II decided it would be better for people to more fully participate in the worship and catechesis of the Mass. The Rosary can distract us from full participation as envisioned by the Council. It is a needed substitute for some people, but it is still a substitute. Its great value should not distract us from the sacrifice of Christ happening in front of us.

. . . . all of us should know that participation in Mass is a fundamental part of our identity as Christians. When we do not accept our role as a kingdom of priest, we diminish ourselves. . . .
 
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Dovekin said:
The Rosary has always been a “substitute.”
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I find this statement and your entire first paragraph to be grossly disrespectful of the Rosary.
Attitudes like this are what I have heard my entire life and I can see why people reject them and head back to the traditional parish, where they do not have to hear such dismissive remarks.

I am muting this thread now.

St. Pope John Paul II and Pope Leo XIII, pray for us all!
 
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Friends, maybe it comes down to what we define ‘substitute’ as.

If our underlying idea is that a substitute is something ‘not quite as good as’, then Tis would be right to take umbrage at the idea of a rosary being a simple ‘substitute’ for the ‘better’ 150 Psalm psalter, or that it was inferior as it ‘only’ required rote memory of a few prayers as opposed to the ability at that historical time to read and write.

But if our understanding of substitute is the more ‘both-and’ idea, then the idea is fine. Yes, the rosary was given to enable more people to pray, and the idea that it could stand in for lay people what was prayed by religious can be understood as a substitute at one time which, however, as time continued to pass became more of a tool than the original Psalter. I mean, in today’s time with fewer and fewer priests, and many of them being so busy, there is often less focus on ‘prayer’ for them and more of ‘action’; but for the lay people, prayer is still one of our main delights and abilities.

Some of us know that, whether it was intended or not, in the last 50 years the Rosary itself in many areas, particularly in some areas of the US, was downplayed. In the early 1960s Father Peyton and the rosary were widely promoted; by the 1970s that ‘old fashioned rote stuff’ was for many a thing of the past. Just when we needed the strong bulwark of the rosary most, just when we needed the prayers of our priests the most, both were sidelined into an ‘active participation and social justice milieu, a ‘histori-critical’ epoch when the miracles of the gospel were downplayed (how ‘coincidental’ that those miracles are a part of the rosary meditations), and care for the poor became solely a matter of ‘materialism’ while prayer was considered offensive!

We need the rosary. We need the Scriptures. We need the Mass.

Sacred Scripture (found in the rosary and meditations, and in the Mass) and interpreted through the Magesterium and not the “Jesus Seminar’ or its ilk, is vital to us.
 
I recall attending a Redemptorist retreat once in which a question was raised about some older parishioners who prayed the rosary even during the Ordinary Form Mass. The priest responded that he would never discourage them or admonish them for such a practice. We come to Mass to be present at the sacrifice of Christ, and not everyone participates in the same manner.

I talked to a parishioner once who said that his mind wanders more during the OF than it did during the EF. To each his own.
 
From St Paul VI:
the history of piety shows how “the various forms of devotion towards the Mother of God that the Church has approved within the limits of wholesome and orthodox doctrine” have developed in harmonious subordination to the worship of Christ, and have gravitated towards this worship as to their natural and necessary point of reference.
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Liturgical celebrations and the pious practice of the Rosary must be neither set in opposition to one another nor considered as being identical. The more an expression of prayer preserves its own true nature and individual characteristics the more fruitful it becomes. Once the pre-eminent value of liturgical rites has been reaffirmed it will not be difficult to appreciate the fact that the Rosary is a practice of piety which easily harmonizes with the liturgy. In fact, like the liturgy, it is of a community nature, draws its inspiration from Sacred Scripture and is oriented towards the mystery of Christ. The commemoration in the liturgy and the contemplative remembrance proper to the Rosary, although existing on essentially different planes of reality, have as their object the same salvific events wrought by Christ.
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there is no doubt that, after the celebration of the Liturgy of the Hours, the high point which family prayer can reach, the Rosary should be considered as one of the best and most efficacious prayers in common that the Christian family is invited to recite.
St. Paul VI. Marialis Cultus
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And in 2002, the Congregation issued a Directory on Popular Piety and the Liturgy that says:
The faithful should be made conscious of the preeminence of the Liturgy over any other possible form of legitimate Christian prayer. While sacramental actions are necessary to life in Christ, the various forms of popular piety are properly optional . Such is clearly proven by the Church’s precept which obliges attendance at Sunday Mass. No such obligation, however, has obtained with regard to pious exercises, notwithstanding their worthiness or their widespread diffusion. Such, however, may be assumed as obligations by a community or by individual members of the faithful.
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I offer these quotes to show how important the preeminence of the Liturgy is.

This does not mean that the Rosary is not a marvelous form of prayer. It is directed toward the mysteries that are present in the Liturgy.

No matter how excellent the Rosary is, there should be serious reasons for turning to it during the Liturgy. Those can exist, but normally hearing the priest preach is more important, as is singing as we receive communion, to take two examples offered in this thread. If you feel your reasons are serious enough, that is your choice. But participation in the sacred actions of the Mass is one of the greatest things we can do for our faith. If we do not wish to act as part of the Body of Christ during communion, when will we ever?
 
JimG said:
I recall attending a Redemptorist retreat once in which a question was raised about some older parishioners who prayed the rosary even during the Ordinary Form Mass. The priest responded that he would never discourage them or admonish them for such a practice. We come to Mass to be present at the sacrifice of Christ, and not everyone participates in the same manner.
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Yes, but to be realistic, he was hardly going to say anything else really. Can you imagine the ructions that would have resulted if he had seemed to criticise members of the congregation? Definitely ten out of ten for discretion and prudence.
 
JimG said:
I talked to a parishioner once who said that his mind wanders more during the OF than it did during the EF. To each his own.
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Me too, absolutely. There is just “so much there”, and this sense of “now we’re doing this”, and “now we’re doing this”, and so on" — I don’t know how to put this without sounding sacrilegious, and that’s definitely not my intent, but compared to the TLM, I feel like I’m being led by a caller at a square dance. I never knew divine worship could be so sweet, until I discovered the TLM. It takes so little out of you, requires so little of you, and gives back so, so much. All you really have to “do”, is to be there, be still, “set aside all earthly cares” (as the Byzantine liturgy puts it), and let it flow over you, let it carry you along. I know this word gets used to death (usually incorrectly), but it is really a very “Zen” experience. Or at least that’s how I find it, anyway.
 
Maximian said:
Pope Leo XIII always said the rosary during Mass.
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It’s also quite probable that Pope Leo XIII (1) could not often hear the priest and (2) did not have a hand missal, as they were not common back then, not to mention clergy don’t using them when sitting in choir.
 
paperwight said:
Can you imagine the ructions that would have resulted if he had seemed to criticise members of the congregation?
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New vocabulary word for today: “ructions”.

ruc·tion

/ˈrəkSHən/

noun

informal

plural noun: ructions

1. a disturbance or quarrel.

h

Similar:

disturbance, noise, racket, din, commotion, fuss, pother, uproar, furor, hue and cry,
rumpus, ruckus, fracas, altercation, quarrel, an outcry, trouble, the devil to pay, hell to pay, to-do, carry-on, hullabaloo, hoo-ha, ballyhoo, stink, row, kerfuffle, foofaraw
  • British*
unpleasant reactions to or complaints about something.

“If Mrs. Salt catches her there’ll be ructions”

I love it! I’ll have to try to work “ructions” into a sentence sometime in the next few days.

Thanks so much.
 
I think I’m trying to ask this- can the rosary BE how we participate in Mass? Can we be pondering how we are at the foot of the cross while Christ offers himself to the Father & praying the sorrowful mysteries as the Mass happens?? Or is it better to think these thoughts without the Hail Mary’s so we can say all the responses?

The reason I ask is because I felt drawn to ponder the sorrowful mysteries during Mass on first Saturday and I started praying the sorrowful mysteries with the Hail Mary’s and Such. But I noticed how many responses the Novus Ordo had! I felt like it was a continual dialogue. Then I read how people feel TLM is quiet… so I wondered if I could skip some of the NO responses and say the rosary. Not out of a desire to “space out” but from a desire to stay centered on what is really happening on the altar. Does that make any sense ?!
 
Jen7 said:
I think I’m trying to ask this- can the rosary BE how we participate in Mass? Can we be pondering how we are at the foot of the cross while Christ offers himself to the Father & praying the sorrowful mysteries as the Mass happens?? Or is it better to think these thoughts without the Hail Mary’s so we can say all the responses?

The reason I ask is because I felt drawn to ponder the sorrowful mysteries during Mass on first Saturday and I started praying the sorrowful mysteries with the Hail Mary’s and Such. But I noticed how many responses the Novus Ordo had! I felt like it was a continual dialogue. Then I read how people feel TLM is quiet… so I wondered if I could skip some of the NO responses and say the rosary. Not out of a desire to “space out” but from a desire to stay centered on what is really happening on the altar. Does that make any sense ?!
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It makes perfect sense, and I think the rosary most certainly can be “how we participate in Mass”. I love the way you put this.

I would much rather meet my just Judge one day, having taken issue with one opinion that Paul VI offered in one sentence of Marialis cultis, than to have challenged him on what he taught in Humanae vitae.
 
Why not just pray the Rosary BEFORE or AFTER the Mass?

In our parish, the Rosary is prayed before the daily Masses (sigh–limited attendance now).

And often, people will arrive early for the Sunday Masses and pray the Rosary (it does help keep the chatter down!). Or they will stay after Mass to pray the Rosary.

My husband likes to pray Rosary before Mass.
 
What if I use a rosary app on my cell phone?
😁

I think one ought to pay attention whether or not one understands the language.
 
" Apostolic exhortations are papal reflections on a particular topic which are addressed to all of the clergy and faithful. The form was first used by Pope Pius XII in 1939. Exhortations generally encourage a particular virtue or mission, and are given on specific occasions. They do not contain dogmatic definitions or policies, and they are not considered legislative documents."

– “Catholicism - General Resources: Papal documents,” Mount Saint Mary’s Seminary & School of Theology, Cincinnati, OH.

As stated above, an Apostolic exhortation is a reflection, a recomendation, but not magisterial or legislative , so NO, “Marsalis Cultus” did not forbid praying the Rosary at Mass!
 
The faithful participate in the mass through their joining with the priest in offering the eucharistic sacrifice as well as offering themselves. This is reflected in the prayers of the mas - particularly Eucharistic Prayer 1 (the canon) - as well as in the orates fratres (pray brothers and sisters…). As Pius XII pouts in in Mediator Dei:
Moreover, the rites and prayers of the eucharistic sacrifice signify and show no less clearly that the oblation of the Victim is made by the priests in company with the people [who] participate in this august sacrifice inasmuch as they offer the same.
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So the problem with praying the rosary at mass (be it NO or TLM) is that it takes our attention away from this, making the mass something that’s happening around us rather than something we’re participating in. Participation requires more than mere physical presence - even if unable to say the responses, the faithful should at least be focussed on the sacrifice which they themselves are offering at the priest’s hands.

When he talks about praying the rosary or performing another spiritual devotion during mass, Pius XII is referring to those unable to use a missal or correctly the liturgical rites and formulas (Mediator Dei 108). He doesn’t however encourage this as general practice (if anything the opposite is true) and the use of the vernacular in the NO, increased levels of literacy and wider availability of missals means that there should be fewer people who need to rely on this “easier” option.

I have no problem with the rosary being prayed before or after mass or even in the church while a mass is going on elsewhere in the church. However, if we’re participating at mass we need to do so completely to the best of our ability remembering that all of us offering the sacrifice - not just the priest; it’s not something we’re spectators on but rather which we’re supposed to be actively involved in.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
I would much rather meet my just Judge one day, having taken issue with one opinion that Paul VI offered in one sentence of Marialis cultis , than to have challenged him on what he taught in Humanae vitae .
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Isn’t this the definition of a cafeteria catholic? It is certainly not what I expect from somebody who says he accepts what the Church teaches.
 
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