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InLight247
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I thought TLM has the same procedure except saying in Latin.
I would like to know the details of TLM. Would someone point direction to some website for detail information?
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Missa_Solemnis
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Hesychios
Guest
What I think we are trying to establish here is what the justification is for doing rosary, when important stuff is happening in the Mass.
Even if we are not going to post a detail of the TLM here, does anyone honestly believe that anything happening during the Mass is not worthy of the fullest possible attention?
What are we to say about all this? That “well the priest just walks from end-to-end of the altar and mumbles a lot, so I might as well say a decade or two”? Or “same-O same-O, I’ve seen it all before, might as well pull out the beads”?!?
This is not encouraging at all.
Someone post any portion of text of the traditional Mass at all that they feel comfortable praying a rosary over. I want to know what is considered permissable by traditional Latin Catholics.
Michael
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Resurrexit
Guest
Indeed!
That’s what I don’t like about the Novus Ordo. There is so noise going on, you haven’t got chance to think or pray.
I love the silent canon, as you can actually say a private prayer without being interrupted.
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bear06
Guest
You act like there’s a lot of dead space in the TLM. This isn’t so.
Interupted by what?! The canon?! Yikes. This kind of proves my point. There is something going on during the canon to which attention is owed. It’s not time for private prayer.
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Marian_Boy
Guest
Actually, the rosary is not of “recent vintage”. And how do you know Pope St. Pius X is wrong? Do you SERIOUSLY think you know better than a Pope (especially one who is also a saint)?
By the way, I find your last statement ironic because one can find far more strange and inappropriate things that the last several popes have approved than any previous popes. Just my :twocents:
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Missa_Solemnis
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This again revolves around the idea that one cannot pray during the Mass and pay attention to the Mass at the same time.
Which doesnt seem to add up…
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Marian_Boy
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There isn’t “dead space” in the TLM, but there is much more reverence and silence–actually let me rephrase that, at the TLM there is reverence and silence. I attend exclusively the traditional Mass and have attended it for the last couple years, and it is evident that the people who assist at the old Mass actually united their prayers with that of the priest while he is offering the sacrifice on the altar; they can do this by following along with the prayers in the Missal (the preferable way), or by praying the holy rosary or some other devotion, which is also highly commendable. And all who are present know where they are and what is happening on the altar. They may not hear every word the priest is saying (why would they need to?) but they know that they are at the foot of the Cross. Whereas at a Novus Ordo where you can hear everything, the majority of the people don’t understand what the Mass is. But for some reason, people equate mindlessly chanting responses and “acclamations” with active participation. And, yes, it is true that more Scripture is read at a Novus Ordo than at the Mass, but the Mass already contained so much more scripture in it’s prayers than does the Novus Ordo, and isn’t quality better than quantity anyway? One thing is sure, traditional Catholic priests actually believe what they are reading during Mass is true whereas most ministers of the Novus Ordo religion think it is made up of a lot of myths and fables.
P.S. Who could pay attention to the Mass when you have bare breasted women in native gear as lectors and presenting the “gifts” and ballerinas dancing in immodest leotards as has been known to happen at certain papal masses?
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Hesychios
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Well, that sort of reinforces my point then, doesn’t it?
Any Pope can make an error even in preaching and teaching, because he is human and not infallible unless his statement is accepted as an Ex Cathedra infallible statement.
Even saints have been known to err. Saint Augustine, the great seminal thinker of the church actually promoted some heretical ideas the church has never accepted!
No one is impeccable, and even statements of sainted Popes are only considered infallible under certain strictly defined conditions according to the Dogma of the church. This is a theme that is hammered out here constantly but only against a short list of recent Popes and a few blunderers of the past. Everyone else of them seems to have a Teflon coating and are treated as irreproachable.
But they are not really, every Pope is fallible outside of the strictly defined limits laid out at Vatican I.
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Michael*
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Missa_Solemnis
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Very well put.
The TLM is so inspiring…so holy…so influential…that theres not really anything you could do that wouldnt be pious while your attending.
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Marian_Boy
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I am well aware of that Hesychios but what makes you think you know better than Pope SAINT Pius X? Perhaps previous popes have a “teflon coating” because past popes tended to focus on condemning errors and glorifying Almighty God rather than man and the modern world, upholding and preserving tradition rather than ditching it and introducing new innovations and novelties…so understandably their teachings carry a bit more weight for us.Well, that sort of reinforces my point then, doesn’t it?
Any Pope can make an error even in preaching and teaching, because he is human and not infallible unless his statement is accepted as an Ex Cathedra infallible statement.
Even saints have been known to err. Saint Augustine, the great seminal thinker of the church actually promoted some heretical ideas the church has never accepted!
No one is impeccable, and even statements of sainted Popes are only considered infallible under certain strictly defined conditions according to the Dogma of the church. This is a theme that is hammered out here constantly but only against a short list of recent Popes and a few blunderers of the past. Everyone else of them seems to have a Teflon coating and are treated as irreproachable.
But they are not really, every Pope is fallible outside of the strictly defined limits laid out at Vatican I.
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Michael*
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Missa_Solemnis
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Traditional Teachings just sort of make more sense too…
Sacrifice is between Christ and the priest…so the Mass is between Christ and the Priest.
Yet the new idea is…we are all somehow participating in the sacrifice.
Hmn…
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Hesychios
Guest
Holy mackeral!
Are you accusing your co-religionists of VAIN REPETITION?!?!!
Please say that’s not what you meant…
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Marian_Boy
Guest
Yes, and in addition God could never be displeased by us praying His Mother’s most holy rosary, meditating upon His life, passion, and resurrection, especially at the foot of Calvary! Not only is praying the rosary at Holy Mass not wrong, it is commendable!
P.S. Everyone on this thread needs to read Secret of the Rosary, by St. Louis de Montfort, if they haven’t already!
God bless.
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Marian_Boy
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Repetition is fine, Hesychios; vain repetition is not. And yes, I do indeed think that most Novus Ordo goers just mindlessly and vainly repeat the responses. Go to any NO, just notice the dull looks in their eyes, the yawns, the slouching. I once heard of a church where the reading from the epistles that day included the phrase, “The Lord be with you”–when the lector read it, half the congregation mindlessly replied, “And also with you.” And I would be hesitant to refer to many of them as my “co-religionists”, at least in a broad sense. Having experienced both the TLM and the NO, I can assist at the TLM and then attend the NO at my local Newman Center (or any average NO parish) and I get the strange sense that we are practicing two different religions…perhaps there is some truth in that.
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Missa_Solemnis
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I think praying the Rosary for reparation to the sins against the Blessed Sacrament, while meditating on the Sorrowful Mysteries, and attending the Holy Mass is just about as spiritual as you can get.Yes, and in addition God could never be displeased by us praying His Mother’s most holy rosary, meditating upon His life, passion, and resurrection, especially at the foot of Calvary! Not only is praying the rosary at Holy Mass not wrong, it is commendable!
P.S. Everyone on this thread needs to read Secret of the Rosary, by St. Louis de Montfort, if they haven’t already!
God bless.
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LilyM
Guest
It is absolutely beyond me.
So many of you learned traditionalists fight tooth and nail, to and beyond the point of schism, over your ‘cum spiritu tuos’ and ‘pro multises’, and treat these issues with probably more significance than they really deserve.
Yet you are so genuinely impressed with the importance of these words and SO genuinely in love with them that when you ACTUALLY get the chance to either hear them or follow along with them as they are being recited you deliberately switch off and choose not to. I find it incomprehensible.
Now my humble Novus Ordo mass may not be ‘the most beautiful thing this side of heaven’. I don’t know - I for one haven’t experienced everything this side of heaven. But I DO know it’s the most significant thing this side of heaven. And I know for that reason that it behooves me to follow intently along with every single word of it.
By the very nature of the Rosary it is a much inferior prayer to the prayers of the Mass itself. Otherwise Christ and the Church would have commanded us to gather and pray it in his honour every Sunday instead of the Mass.
And to me praying the Rosary is the mental equivalent of those Novus Ordo attendees who wear ratty jeans when they could dress up a little. Not sacrilege exactly, and there are some who can do no better, but certainly not a particularly appropriate way to do things for those who should know better either.
I mean when your loved ones speak to you, or about you, or on your behalf do you spend all or most of that time praying the Rosary in your head instead of listening to them??? I for one would find it extremely insulting if I were to find out that someone did that when I was speaking.
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LilyM
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How about actually LISTENING to or following along devoutly and intently with the INFINITELY superior prayers of the Mass itself??? I for one think Christ would be much more pleased if you did that instead. And that it would be much more effective in terms of reparation for sacrileges against the Blessed Sacrament.
Let me put it simply for you - there’s a reason why it’s called the MASS of the ages and not the ROSARY of the Ages. The prayers of the Mass are the filet steak, the Rosary is the hamburger.
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Marian_Boy
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I don’t have time to address your entire post, much of which I find rude and condescending.
But, I think a lot of what you said just highlights the differences between the traditional Catholic faith and the postconcilar religion. Mass isn’t a time when we sit back and “God speaks to us” (if you’re into that sort of drivel you should try out the Quakers). Holy Mass is the event when a priest on our behalf offers anew the Perfect Victim to God, Jesus Christ, Calvary made present. How you consider praying the rosary, telling God and His Mother how much you love the, meditating and pondering upon the mysteries of His life, passion, and glory which was for our salvation, alongside His Blessed mother, while kneeling at the foot of the cross (which is exactly what you are doing if you are at Mass), to be somehow ignoring God, is beyond me. In fact, such an opinion might even be blasphemous.
P.S. The Novus Ordo isn’t “humble”. Discarding centuries old traditions honored by holy saints and popes in favor of a man-centered service calculatingly drawn up to get rid of or obscure anything that might offend non-Catholics, is rather arrogant and conceited. You’re confusing paltry with humble.
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