Rosary during Tridentine Mass?

[Eilish_Maura]

Furthermore, what are your credentials which give you the authority to make such a pronouncement?

As far as “getting personal” goes, no one is asking for your name and address. If you are going to debate publicly, you should be prepared to give others a little insight into yourself, otherwise you come off as being nothing more than a troll.

I have seen what some here do with credentials of those they disagree with.

The attendance of OF or EF does not matter for the purpose of this discussion.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Thank you for your opinion, but I will trust two very fine popes as to what is appropriate or not.

Could you rephrase that? I don’t understand what it is you mean that “never happened.”

There are many who post to assorted message boards that declare, based on their own limited experience, that the laity never performed personal private devotional practices during the TLM and that it was never encouraged.

Most of these describe themselves as young traditional Catholics who did not grow up with the TLM.

I believe at least one such post is somewhere in this forum appearing over the last 6 months or so.

 

[palmas85]

There are many who post to assorted message boards that declare, based on their own limited experience, that the laity never performed personal private devotional practices during the TLM and that it was never encouraged.

Most of these describe themselves as young traditional Catholics who did not grow up with the TLM.

I believe at least one such post is somewhere in this forum appearing over the last 6 months or so.

Excellent post:thumbsup: I’m sure that if you look back over the last six months, but hey, why stop there, take it back a year or so, that you will find posts about the Traditional Mass posted by people who were not there.

On both sides of the issue I might add. However, I was there.

Were you? Just wondering?

 

[Rosewith]

There are many who post to assorted message boards that declare, based on their own limited experience, that the laity never performed personal private devotional practices during the TLM and that it was never encouraged.

Most of these describe themselves as young traditional Catholics who did not grow up with the TLM.

I believe at least one such post is somewhere in this forum appearing over the last 6 months or so.

I would say that these claims would have to be based on their own personal, total inexperience. It was common for the rosary to be recited aloud and confession s to be heard in the same space where Mass was being celebrated. This was especially common on First Friday and First Saturday.And people reading “novens” prayers and saying the rosary was a common daily sight.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

I would say that these claims would have to be based on their own personal, total inexperience. It was common for the rosary to be recited aloud and confession s to be heard in the same space where Mass was being celebrated. This was especially common on First Friday and First Saturday.And people reading “novens” prayers and saying the rosary was a common daily sight.

NO.

The claims were made when the issue of praying some kind of private devotion DURING the Mass was mentioned.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Excellent post:thumbsup: I’m sure that if you look back over the last six months, but hey, why stop there, take it back a year or so, that you will find posts about the Traditional Mass posted by people who were not there.

On both sides of the issue I might add. However, I was there.

Were you? Just wondering?

Yes - I am part of the cross over generation.

 

[Rosewith]

NO.

The claims were made when the issue of praying some kind of private devotion DURING the Mass was mentioned.

Yes. That’s what I’m talking about. The rosary is a “private devotion” even if it is said “publicly,” since it is not a liturgical prayer. And I was speaking of recitations during Mass.

 

[latinmass]

I respect Elish M belief that the when a pope speaks on a topic not on faith and morals he could be wrong such as the rosary, just as I’m sure she respects my belief that JP2 is mistaken in allowing false ecumenism and allowing altar girls, to name just two items.

 

[laudamus_te]

I have seen what some here do with credentials of those they disagree with.

The attendance of OF or EF does not matter for the purpose of this discussion.

Not sure what you mean by that first statement, but I assure you that I am a good person with no ulterior motives. And yes, it DOES matter for the purpose of this discussion. As I have reminded you already, this topic deals with saying the Rosary during the TLM, not the NO. We all know that it is discouraged since VII for the NOM for obvious reasons. Recitation of the Rosary during the new mass would most definitely detract from all of the attention which should be paid to glorifying men about us, rather than focusing on the true purpose of the Mass.

 

[piouswoman]

No I am not interested in any source that encourages supplementing the mass by items to be used when one should be actively participating. It turns the laity into children - why not bring a religious coloring book and a snack while one is at it?

I find it very sad that you would put the rosary on a level with a coloring book or a snack. That is most offensive to Our Lord and to Our Lady herself, who, after appearing to three small children in the Cova de Iria at Fatima, asked that the rosary be prayed everyday. You may wish to take it lightly and with sanctimonious resolve refuse to bend your own prideful opinion, but the reality is that there is no more powerful prayer than the rosary, and one may recite the rosary devotions during Holy Mass as long as one suspends their private devotions to meditate on particular mysteries of the Mass presented: at the Offertory uniting our intentions with the priest, at the Consecration welcoming Jesus, and at the Communion inviting Him into our hearts and thanking Him for the consummation of His sacrifice. We should also unite ourselves with the rest of those who hear the Mass, and with all Christians throughout the world. Amen.

 

[laudamus_te]

It remains a private devotional practice - one that many of those who have ‘found’ the TLM in the years after Vat II claimed never happened.

And for the record, I am not one who “found” the TLM in the years after VII.

This is not a matter of who is “more traditional,” either, despite your claim to that title. I would have absolutely no problem at all with your posts if you added the words “In my opinion” to them. But you are putting forth personal opinion as gospel truth. I and others have at least backed up our opinions with the well-qualified support of papal authority.

 

[piouswoman]

Please provide proof that the OF discourages the rosary in any way.

TIA

What is the OF? Sorry, but I am not part of the Novus Ordo anymore, so forgive my question.

As to providing proof, my *eyewitness *to the events which unfolded in the church after the close of Vatican II, should suffice. Not only were the changes radical and sudden, but they were scandalous and merciless. I felt as though I had woken up one day to a completely new church, which of course in reality I had, although I would not realize that the wool had been pulled over my eyes, and I had been robbed of my birthright, for another thirty seven years. I can personally attest that in the Novus Ordo, the practice of the recitation of the rosary in church, or anywhere for that matter had *absolutely *fallen out of favor and had all but disappeared from sight. Not only that, it was not encouraged, nor even so much as mentioned in any of my grade school or high school days, and I went to " Catholic" schools all of my life, nor do I have any memory of encouragement to recite the rosary from any of the many parish priests and the sermons preached. Everyone was too busy with the novelties. The guitar masses, the worship of man, the ecumenism, the communion in the hand, the ripping out of the altar rails, the altar girls, the Eucharistic ministers and ministerettes, the thumbing of the noses at the thought of confession, the “bringing of the gifts” up the center aisle by the lay-people, the hand shaking, talking, laughing, and kissing of one another at the “kiss of peace”, etc. etc. In general, the Protestantizing of the Catholic Church.

 

[Yerusalyim]

My understanding is that the practice of praying the rosary during the mass developed because most folks didn’t (and still don’t) understand Latin.

 

[piouswoman]

My understanding is that the practice of praying the rosary during the mass developed because most folks didn’t (and still don’t) understand Latin.

I believe your understanding is incorrect, and as to folks not understanding Latin, I must ask…
How can that be? The missal has always given the correct and proper translation of the Holy Mass on the facing page for the benefit of the lay-person. It also provides instruction and explanation. After continual use of the missal, folks **do **understand Latin, and they understand the Holy Mass. Some use additional private devotion by recitation of the rosary during times of the Mass.

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

Have you ever wondered why liberals have such a problem with people saying the Rosary at Mass? They have no problem with “creative” liturgies that violate the rubrics or change the words of consecration, but cannot tolerate the thought of someone saying the Rosary at Mass. Have you ever wondered why? I have, and this is what I think…

The new Mass, in virtually all of its externals, is identical to the heretical “mass” of Cranmer. The “mass” of the arch-heretic Cranmer was purposefully crafted so as to destroy the faith of the Catholics and turn then into good Anglicans (read heretics).

Most of us are familiar with the term “lex orandi, lex credendi” which means the way we pray will effect, or determine, the way we believe.

Since the new Mass is identical to the “mass” of Cranmer, the devil knows full well that the “lex orandi” of the new Mass will produce the same “lex credendi” as did Cranmer’s new Mass.

Therefore, the devil wants to make certain that everyone absorb as much of the Protestantization from the New Mass as possible… which would not occur if they were quietly saying the Rosary and meditating on the mysteries.

Therefore, the devil, through his agents the liberals, have attacked the idea of saying the Rosary at Mass, lest his attempt to Protestantize the Catholics is stifled.

 

[Yerusalyim]

I wonder if the Apostles prayed the Rosary during Mass?

Which is better, to read a translation, or to understand and pray along? I have nothing against the TLM and I’m happy for those who find fulfillment in it, but that said, the church had excellent reason to allow the vernacular and having been to both, find UNDERSTANDING what’s being said and being able to PRAY WITH the celebrant is quite uplifting.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Have you ever wondered why liberals have such a problem with people saying the Rosary at Mass? They have no problem with “creative” liturgies that violate the rubrics or change the words of consecration, but cannot tolerate the thought of someone saying the Rosary at Mass. Have you ever wondered why? I have, and this is what I think…

The new Mass, in virtually all of its externals, is identical to the heretical “mass” of Cranmer. The “mass” of the arch-heretic Cranmer was purposefully crafted so as to destroy the faith of the Catholics and turn then into good Anglicans (read heretics).

Most of us are familiar with the term “lex orandi, lex credendi” which means the way we pray will effect, or determine, the way we believe.

Since the new Mass is identical to the “mass” of Cranmer, the devil knows full well that the “lex orandi” of the new Mass will produce the same “lex credendi” as did Cranmer’s new Mass.

Therefore, the devil wants to make certain that everyone absorb as much of the Protestantization from the New Mass as possible… which would not occur if they were quietly saying the Rosary and meditating on the mysteries.

Therefore, the devil, through his agents the liberals, have attacked the idea of saying the Rosary at Mass, lest his attempt to Protestantize the Catholics is stifled.

The rosary is a private personal devotional practice and as such has no place IN the Mass.

Say it before or say it afterward but not DURING the Mass.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

What is the OF? Sorry, but I am not part of the Novus Ordo anymore, so forgive my question.

As to providing proof, my *eyewitness *to the events which unfolded in the church after the close of Vatican II, should suffice.

I am sorry to inform you but it does not suffice.

Please provide verifiable proof.

TIA

 

[Eilish_Maura]

And for the record, I am not one who “found” the TLM in the years after VII.

This is not a matter of who is “more traditional,” either, despite your claim to that title. I would have absolutely no problem at all with your posts if you added the words “In my opinion” to them. But you are putting forth personal opinion as gospel truth. I and others have at least backed up our opinions with the well-qualified support of papal authority.

It is not ‘my’ opinion that the rosary is a personal devotional practice.

It is not ‘my’ opinion that the Mass is complete and sufficient - our perfect way to pray.

It is not ‘my’ opinion that using any private devotional practice while at mass is multitasking.

These things are facts.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Not sure what you mean by that first statement, but I assure you that I am a good person with no ulterior motives. And yes, it DOES matter for the purpose of this discussion. As I have reminded you already, this topic deals with saying the Rosary during the TLM, not the NO. We all know that it is discouraged since VII for the NOM for obvious reasons. Recitation of the Rosary during the new mass would most definitely detract from all of the attention which should be paid to glorifying men about us, rather than focusing on the true purpose of the Mass.

Does the TLM have the allowance for saying the rosary written into it?

I do not believe so unless I have missed it somewhere along the discussion.

Where does the missal for either mass call for multitasking during down times to keep someone’s focus?