Rosary during Tridentine Mass?

[Eilish_Maura]

No, you do not understand the devotion of the Eucharistic Rosary. It is not “multitasking” (what a silly, modernist idea!).

It is multitasking if you are also claiming to participate/‘hear’ mass at the same time.

If you are ignoring one for the other then it is an ever more troublesome practice.

 

[brotherhrolf]

There may be a societal influence on the subject. I neverr saw my mother saying the rosary during Mass when I was a boy. It was the elderly women who would have been in their 60s before 1965.

Y’all are taking ethnic considerations out of the picture entirely. I can tell you that kneeling next to my mother when I wasn’t serving on the altar - I had my missal in my hand not my rosary.

And I understood/understand quite well actually what is being said,

 

[Eilish_Maura]

That’s not what Pope SAINT Pius X said. Who should I believe… you or the only Pope canonized in the past 450 years?

Is this why he was made a saint?

Does being named a saint mean absolutely everything he has ever said is right?

Why has only one other pope supported this?

These are the things that should impact making the decision and the acknowledgement that this is something being done to replace some aspect of a Mass being attended.

 

[laudamus_te]

I’m kinda seeing both sides of the argument here.

But here’s a question for those arguing that Rosary during the Mass is fine. Where DO you draw the line as to what private devotions are acceptable and which aren’t?

**Would it be OK to, for example, walk around the Church and pray the Stations of the Cross during the quiet times in a TLM (assuming that it’s at a time in the Mass when one isn’t required to kneel)? **

Surely these would be just as relevant to the Sacrifice of the Mass as the Sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary, no? So is there any difference, and if so what?

Of course not, that would be a distraction to others and a disruption to the Mass. As to where to draw the line, a private devotion which takes your attention away from the Sacrifice of the Mass, and which does not help you contemplate Christ’s Passion would be inappropriate, for example a novena.

 

[laudamus_te]

Is this why he was made a saint?

Does being named a saint mean absolutely everything he has ever said is right?

It means that we should not dismiss lightly what they have said, especially if the saint in question was a Pope.

Why has only one other pope supported this?

Do you know this for a fact?

 

[Eilish_Maura]

It means that we should not dismiss lightly what they have said, especially if the saint in question was a Pope.

Do you know this for a fact?

Where does the church teach that we are bound by what a saint has said?

Regarding the number of popes - that is the number of how many have been offered as proof this is acceptable.

 

[I_Believe]

I’m kinda seeing both sides of the argument here.

But here’s a question for those arguing that Rosary during the Mass is fine. Where DO you draw the line as to what private devotions are acceptable and which aren’t?

Would it be OK to, for example, walk around the Church and pray the Stations of the Cross during the quiet times in a TLM (assuming that it’s at a time in the Mass when one isn’t required to kneel)?

Surely these would be just as relevant to the Sacrifice of the Mass as the Sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary, no? So is there any difference, and if so what?

Hi Lily , the difference is, the Rosary during Mass has been looked upon as a pious option of assisting at Mass. By many respected members of the Clergy.

Silently praying the Rosary would not distract those sitting beside us. We can pause during the Rosary, and refocus specifically on the Prayer of the Mass, for example during the consecration.

As for Stations of the Cross, it would be a distraction to some sitting in the pews near each station. With the Rosary, we can pause, sit, kneel, stand, all without distracting anyone.

make sense ?

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Hi Lily , the difference is, the Rosary during Mass has been looked upon as a pious option of assisting at Mass. By many respected members of the Clergy.

Silently praying the Rosary would not distract those sitting beside us. We can pause during the Rosary, and refocus specifically on the Prayer of the Mass, for example during the consecration.

As for Stations of the Cross, it would be a distraction to some sitting in the pews near each station. With the Rosary, we can pause, sit, kneel, stand, all without distracting anyone.

make sense ?

Exactly what part of the Mass should not be focused on?

 

[I_Believe]

Where does the church teach that we are bound by what a saint has said?

.

No one has said that at all. The Rosary as a means of assisting at Mass is an acceptable option.

Just because one does not agree it should be an option doesn’t mean it should be frowned upon.

The OP has asked a question and has been given the correct answer.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

No one has said that at all. The Rosary as a means of assisting at Mass is an acceptable option.

Just because one does not agree it should be an option doesn’t mean it should be frowned upon.

The OP has asked a question and has been given the correct answer.

It may have been a ‘correct’ answer when people were not able to make use of the Missal (such as times where illiteracy rates were high).

Now to do a private devotional practice one has to give up some other part of the Mass in order to focus - how do you decide what part of the Mass to not direct your attention to in preference for this private practice?

 

[laudamus_te]

Where does the church teach that we are bound by what a saint has said?

Nowhere. Where on this thread has anyone said that one is bound to say the Rosary during the TLM? Please quit twisting words in an attempt to shore up your indefensible position.

 

[I_Believe]

Exactly what part of the Mass should not be focused on?

Not a single part of it. I said focus specifically on the Prayer of the Mass. The Eucharistic Rosary is focused on the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Again, no documentation or quotes to support your opinion. Just another attemp to mislead others by taking my words out of context.

 

[LilyM]

Hi Lily , the difference is, the Rosary during Mass has been looked upon as a pious option of assisting at Mass. By many respected members of the Clergy.

Silently praying the Rosary would not distract those sitting beside us. We can pause during the Rosary, and refocus specifically on the Prayer of the Mass, for example during the consecration.

As for Stations of the Cross, it would be a distraction to some sitting in the pews near each station. With the Rosary, we can pause, sit, kneel, stand, all without distracting anyone.

make sense ?

Apart from, possibly, distracting ourselves of course. I’m sure you and St Pius X would agree there’s a right and a wrong way to do any private prayer during the Mass, up to and including the Rosary

And if I remember rightly, St Therese of Lisieux found even the sound made by the Rosary beads of the sister sitting next to her in chapel a distraction at one point. How do I know that if praying the Rosary I’m not providing similar distraction to someone else?

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Nowhere. Where on this thread has anyone said that one is bound to say the Rosary during the TLM? Please quit twisting words in an attempt to shore up your indefensible position.

No - but it has been stated that it should be taken very seriously and it is what makes the answer some have given ‘correct’.

We have no guarantee that the Pope was correct in this action at the time he said it. His since being made a saint does not change that.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Not a single part of it. I said focus specifically on the Prayer of the Mass. The Eucharistic Rosary is focused on the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Again, no documentation or quotes to support your opinion. Just another attemp to mislead others by taking my words out of context.

What need do I have other than to refer back to the Mass itself?

The Eucharistic rosary may be focused on the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass but it is not part of it.

In order to do it something has to be skipped and that something would be from the Mass itself.

 

[laudamus_te]

No - but it has been stated that it should be taken very seriously and it is what makes the answer some have given ‘correct’.

We have no guarantee that the Pope was correct in this action at the time he said it. His since being made a saint does not change that.

Hence, you are perfectly within your rights as a Catholic to disregard what this pope said on the matter. However, I am also perfectly within my rights as a Catholic to regard what this pope said as worthy. It is not in your power to say that such a practice is wrong. You have absolutely no authority whatsoever.

 

[laudamus_te]

Apart from, possibly, distracting ourselves of course. I’m sure you and St Pius X would agree there’s a right and a wrong way to do any private prayer during the Mass, up to and including the Rosary

And if I remember rightly, St Therese of Lisieux found even the sound made by the Rosary beads of the sister sitting next to her in chapel a distraction at one point. How do I know that if praying the Rosary I’m not providing similar distraction to someone else?

St. Therese also chastised herself for being annoyed and used occasions such as that to humble herself and become more saintly.

 

[Yerusalyim]

You have become so jaded as to believe that assisting at Mass means vocal participation only. On cue, all laid out and choreographed.

Vocal participation by some, on cue all laid out is also part of the TLM. No, attention to the prayer of the Church is what’s important to me.

bulletin announcements in the middle of Mass is not in the missal, but that’s ok

No, it’s not ok.

liturgical dancers are not in the missal, but that’s ok

No, it’s not ok.

pious devotion is not in the missal, and it’s not ok

my devotion during mass is the sacrafice/celebration made present…to focus on anything else, to include the rosary, is a distraction in my book and does not honor what is occuring on the altar.

You have a jaded view of the NO, I personally have NEVER witnessed the specific abuses you have mentioned, and when I do see abuses I bring them up to the pastor and have only received a negative response once.

I’m not saying you can’t or shouldn’t pray the rosary during Mass, I just don’t understand it because it must detract from the miracle of God’s presence going on before me which I participate in with my whole attention.

My biggest problem with this whole thread is that so many here seem ready to dismiss the NO mass as a tool of Satan. It’s an approved liturgy of the Church and to denegrate it like that borders on heretical.

 

[laudamus_te]

I’m not saying you can’t or shouldn’t pray the rosary during Mass, I just don’t understand it because it must detract from the miracle of God’s presence going on before me which I participate in with my whole attention.

THANK YOU! Now, could you just get that idea across to Eillish Maura?

 

[Yerusalyim]

However, we do have the following encyclical from Paul VI in 1974. The pertinent part is bolded at the bottom. Marialis Cultus states:

1. Finally, as a result of modern reflection the relationships between the liturgy and the Rosary have been more clearly understood. On the one hand it has been emphasized that the Rosary is, as it were, a branch sprung from the ancient trunk of the Christian liturgy, the Psalter of the Blessed Virgin, whereby the humble were associated in the Church’s hymn of praise and universal intercession. On the other hand it has been noted that this development occurred at a time – the last period of the Middle Ages – when the liturgical spirit was in decline and the faithful were turning from the liturgy towards a devotion to Christ’s humanity and to the Blessed Virgin Mary, a devotion favoring a certain external sentiment of piety. Not many years ago some people began to express the desire to see the Rosary included among the rites of the liturgy, while other people, anxious to avoid repetition of former pastoral mistakes, unjustifiably disregarded the Rosary. Today the problem can easily be solved in the light of the principles of the Constitution Sacrosanctum concilium. Liturgical celebrations and the pious practice of the Rosary must be neither set in opposition to one another nor considered as being identical.[114] The more an expression of prayer preserves its own true nature and individual characteristics the more fruitful it becomes. Once the pre-eminent value of liturgical rites has been reaffirmed it will not be difficult to appreciate the fact that the Rosary is a practice of piety which easily harmonizes with the liturgy. In fact, like the liturgy, it is of a community nature, draws its inspiration from Sacred Scripture and is oriented towards the mystery of Christ. The commemoration in the liturgy and the contemplative remembrance proper to the Rosary, although existing on essentially different planes of reality, have as their object the same salvific events wrought by Christ. The former presents anew, under the veil of signs and operative in a hidden way, the great mysteries of our Redemption. The latter, by means of devout contemplation, recalls these same mysteries to the mind of the person praying and stimulates the will to draw from them the norms of living. Once this substantial difference has been established, it is not difficult to understand that the Rosary is an exercise of piety that draws its motivating force from the liturgy and leads naturally back to it, if practiced in conformity with its original inspiration. It does not, however, become part of the liturgy. In fact, meditation on the mysteries of the Rosary, by familiarizing the hearts and minds of the faithful with the mysteries of Christ, can be an excellent preparation for the celebration of those same mysteries in the liturgical action and can also become a continuing echo thereof. **However, it is a mistake to recite the Rosary during the celebration of the liturgy, though unfortunately this practice still persists here and there. **