Rosary during Tridentine Mass?

[piouswoman]

My biggest problem with this whole thread is that so many here seem ready to dismiss the NO mass as a tool of Satan. It’s an approved liturgy of the Church and to denegrate it like that borders on heretical.

What is your opinion of this Novus Ordo Mass?:

traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A244rcWurzburgHindu.html

Looks like that approved liturgy has done nothing BUT degenerate at the hands of apostates. One *could *say the new mass has been a tool of Satan. If you want heretical, here it is.

 

[I_Believe]

However, we do have the following encyclical from Paul VI in 1974. The pertinent part is bolded at the bottom. Marialis Cultus states:

Yes, but he is referring to the NO. HIS NO.

Please read post 1 of this thread.

And, no I don’t frown upon the NO. I am a member of an NO parish. And while not on topic, I’ll add that the last 4 NO Masses I’ve attended, I heard cell phones ringing.

 

[Yerusalyim]

So, are you a member of this group whose leaders have suspended obedience to the Pope? The word schismatic comes to mind. And to call the NO a tool of the devil sounds heretical.

I haven’t called TLM a tool of the devil though it’s been used to cause desent.

 

[piouswoman]

If it is needed as busy work to keep one’s mind on things during a Mass (either OF or EF) then the opportunity to work harder and turn oneself over to God for help to focus on the Mass has been missed.

The Mass is the most powerful prayer - not the rosary.

You need to quit spouting off misinformation. **The Mass is the sacrifice of the New Law in which Christ, through the ministry of the priest, offers Himself to God in an unbloody manner under the appearances of bread and wine. **

The church has always taught that the Mass is a true sacrifice. St. Paul implies this when he says: “We have an altar from which they have no right to eat who serve the tabernacle (meaning the Jews)”.

This is basic catechism. It is not stated that the Holy Mass is a prayer, it is stated that the Holy Mass is a visible sacrifice given to us by Christ Himself, to continue His sacrifice on the cross until the end of time.

You are confusing “praying the Mass” with “the Mass is a prayer” please try to get the proper understanding, as you are posting misleading statements, and it is important that you post truth.

 

[piouswoman]

So, are you a member of this group whose leaders have suspended obedience to the Pope? The word schismatic comes to mind. And to call the NO a tool of the devil sounds heretical.

I haven’t called TLM a tool of the devil though it’s been used to cause desent.

Read my post again. You have accused me falsely.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

You need to quit spouting off misinformation. **The Mass is the sacrifice of the New Law in which Christ, through the ministry of the priest, offers Himself to God in an unbloody manner under the appearances of bread and wine. **

The church has always taught that the Mass is a true sacrifice. St. Paul implies this when he says: “We have an altar from which they have no right to eat who serve the tabernacle (meaning the Jews)”.

This is basic catechism. It is not stated that the Holy Mass is a prayer, it is stated that the Holy Mass is a visible sacrifice given to us by Christ Himself, to continue His sacrifice on the cross until the end of time.

You are confusing “praying the Mass” with “the Mass is a prayer” please try to get the proper understanding, as you are posting misleading statements, and it is important that you post truth.

With all you have said here it is all the more important to stay focused on the Mass and not substitute other items.

 

[Yerusalyim]

Yes, but he is referring to the NO. HIS NO.

Please read post 1 of this thread.

And, no I don’t frown upon the NO. I am a member of an NO parish. And while not on topic, I’ll add that the last 4 NO Masses I’ve attended, I heard cell phones ringing.

There is no such thing as HIS NO, the mass belongs to the Church, to Christ himself. If you deny the validity of the NO you’re in some very dangerous territory…Schism.

This is the Pope, the Vicar of Christ, stating that to recite the rosary during the liturgy is a MISTAKE…and he explains why before hand.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

THANK YOU! Now, could you just get that idea across to Eillish Maura?

I have no trouble seeing that it detracts from the mystery and beauty of the Mass.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Yes, but he is referring to the NO. HIS NO.

Please read post 1 of this thread.

And, no I don’t frown upon the NO. I am a member of an NO parish. And while not on topic, I’ll add that the last 4 NO Masses I’ve attended, I heard cell phones ringing.

Where exactly does the quote specify the OF and exclude the EF?

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Hence, you are perfectly within your rights as a Catholic to disregard what this pope said on the matter. However, I am also perfectly within my rights as a Catholic to regard what this pope said as worthy. It is not in your power to say that such a practice is wrong. You have absolutely no authority whatsoever.

By the same token no one here can validly claim this behavior is correct because it necessitates that the person stop focusing on the Mass and pay attention to the private devotional practice.

 

[piouswoman]

With all you have said here it is all the more important to stay focused on the Mass and not substitute other items.

Please understand that those who educate themselves to acquire a proper understanding of the catechism will not be fooled by your misleading argument.

You have zero authority to talk with such finality.

 

[Indyann]

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P6MARIAL.HTM

What Pope Paul VI says about saying the Rosary during Mass.

1. Finally, as a result of modern reflection the relationships between the liturgy and the Rosary have been more clearly understood. On the one hand it has been emphasized that the Rosary is, as it were, a branch sprung from the ancient trunk of the Christian liturgy, the Psalter of the Blessed Virgin, whereby the humble were associated in the Church’s hymn of praise and universal intercession. On the other hand it has been noted that this development occurred at a time—the last period of the Middle Ages—when the liturgical spirit was in decline and the faithful were turning from the liturgy towards a devotion to Christ’s humanity and to the Blessed Virgin Mary, a devotion favoring a certain external sentiment of piety. Not many years ago some people began to express the desire to see the Rosary included among the rites of the liturgy, while other people, anxious to avoid repetition of former pastoral mistakes, unjustifiably disregarded the Rosary. Today the problem can easily be solved in the light of the principles of the Constitution Sacrosanctum concilium. Liturgical celebrations and the pious practice of the Rosary must be neither set in opposition to one another nor considered as being identical.[114] The more an expression of prayer preserves its own true nature and individual characteristics the more fruitful it becomes. Once the pre-eminent value of liturgical rites has been reaffirmed it will not be difficult to appreciate the fact that the Rosary is a practice of piety which easily harmonizes with the liturgy. In fact, like the liturgy, it is of a community nature, draws its inspiration from Sacred Scripture and is oriented towards the mystery of Christ. The commemoration in the liturgy and the contemplative remembrance proper to the Rosary, although existing on essentially different planes of reality, have as their object the same salvific events wrought by Christ. The former presents anew, under the veil of signs and operative in a hidden way, the great mysteries of our Redemption. The latter, by means of devout contemplation, recalls these same mysteries to the mind of the person praying and stimulates the will to draw from them the norms of living. Once this substantial difference has been established, it is not difficult to understand that the Rosary is an exercise of piety that draws its motivating force from the liturgy and leads naturally back to it, if practiced in conformity with its original inspiration. It does not, however, become part of the liturgy. In fact, meditation on the mysteries of the Rosary, by familiarizing the hearts and minds of the faithful with the mysteries of Christ, can be an excellent preparation for the celebration of those same mysteries in the liturgical action and can also become a continuing echo thereof. However, it is a mistake to recite the Rosary during the celebration of the liturgy, though unfortunately this practice still persists here and there.

A mistake.

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[Miles_Mariae]

Please provide verifiable information that the HMC teaches that any saint is completely correct in each and every statement made and/or that the HMC instructs us that all items issued by a pope are guaranteed to be without error.

TIA

It’s not so much that they’re guaranteed from error, as they are immeasurably wiser and more knowledgeable about the Faith than you are. That’s why people tend to listen to saints rather than armchair analysts like yourself.

Your argument is based on fallacy. Sufficiency of a prayer does not preclude additional devotion. Furthermore, comparing the Rosary to a coloring book is offensive and betrays lack of character as well as understanding.

By the way, I find it hilarious how you start so many posts with “please provide evidence” when it is the one thing you consistently refrain from doing in almost all of your posts. If you aren’t just blatantly stating opinions, then something “is said” to be true.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Please understand that those who educate themselves to acquire a proper understanding of the catechism will not be fooled by your misleading argument.

You have zero authority to talk with such finality.

I am not the one minimizing the Mass by saying there are parts that can basically be skipped to carry out a personal private devotional practice during it.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

It’s not so much that they’re guaranteed from error, as they are immeasurably wiser and more knowledgeable about the Faith than you are. That’s why people tend to listen to saints rather than armchair analysts like yourself.

Your argument is based on fallacy. Sufficiency of a prayer does not preclude additional devotion. Furthermore, comparing the Rosary to a coloring book is offensive and betrays lack of character as well as understanding.

As an aside, note the option of editing rather than triple-posting.

Re: editing - I try to avoid editing quotes so as not to be accused of altering the person’s words.

My position is not based on fallacy unless all we have been taught about the Mass is fallacy.

 

[Miles_Mariae]

My position is not based on fallacy unless all we have been taught about the Mass is fallacy.

Church teaching about the Mass is true. Your argument is still fallacious, via the reasoning I provided.

Re- editing: People can tell whether you alter their words because they can read their posts that they made before. Wow, you are incredible.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

By the way, I find it hilarious how you start so many posts with “please provide evidence” when it is the one thing you consistently refrain from doing in almost all of your posts. If you aren’t just blatantly stating opinions, then something “is said” to be true.

I have repeatedly offered my evidence - the missals themselves.

It is an earlier outrageous claim by another poster that has not been proved in any way.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Church teaching about the Mass is true. Your argument is still fallacious, via the reasoning I provided.

So - where does the Church teach us that there are parts of the Mass we can opt out of to perform a personal private devotional practice?

 

[Miles_Mariae]

So - where does the Church teach us that there are parts of the Mass we can opt out of to perform a personal private devotional practice?

After receiving Eucharist you are to spend the time in prayer and reflection. What better way to do that than to pray the Rosary?

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Please understand that those who educate themselves to acquire a proper understanding of the catechism will not be fooled by your misleading argument.

You have zero authority to talk with such finality.

Where does the Church teach that there are parts of the Mass that can be opted out of so an individual can perform a private devotional practice?