Rosary/Penance Question

[Techno2000]

u guys are so awesome.

maybe i should start addressing my questions to you, Della

lol

i’ll definitely check those books out too…

thanks alot!

angelfire.com/ca3/rafaelmarie/ThePieta/athepieta.html
catholicbooksonline.org/item.asp?PID=294
theholyrosary.org/power.html

 

[alt101]

thx!

and

thx!

i didn’t get a chance to go to confession yet though… hopefully this week.

it still seems strange that Mary would be able to promise things to people who pray the rosary…

i’m going to keep an eye out for these books though and i’ll take a look at that website.

thx again!

 

[Mintaka]

Well, heck. I can promise you stuff, if God makes me a prophet and tells me what to promise you. Mary’s just passing on what God’s told her to say.

Any member of the Body of Christ in heaven has been made one with Christ in a perfect way, a way we current members can only dimly understand. They will whatever He wills, as people who love and understand Him perfectly would be expected to do. Someday, it is our joyful hope and expectation that we will all do the same.

 

[jmcrae]

it still seems strange that Mary would be able to promise things to people who pray the rosary…

She’s more alive in Heaven than we are on the earth. We can make promises to each other, right? So, why wouldn’t Mary be able to make promises, and be able to keep them?

Remember when she noticed that the wine ran out, at the wedding at Cana? When she asked Jesus to help those people, she knew that he would, so she promised them, “Everything will be okay - just do whatever he tells you to do.”

She can do that, because she knows Jesus really, really well. She’s his Mom, after all.

 

[alt101]

wouldn’t he have utilized her while she was alive in the same way if that’s what he intended for her? i’ve heard the “water into wine” story a lot but other than what he said while he was being crucified, i don’t know of any other time when he said anything about her being anything more than his earthly mother. and i’m saying “i don’t know of any other time” because i’m not an expert on scripture.

but it seems like we’re putting this huge emphasis on her when jesus didn’t seem to. at least not biblically. i realize she’s his mother, and she played a very special role, and no doubt she’s in heaven, and also that she can and will pray for us… but… sometimes i feel like most catholics rely on her a bit more than i’m comfortable with, personally.

at the same time, i’d love to be able to justify marian devotion, etc not only because of the benefits they claim, but also this apprehensiveness is the source of some doubt about catholicism… especially some of the claims of certain saints and apparitions. of course, we dont have to believe alot of these things, but it’s so engrained into catholic culture that it’s inescapable. not that i’d want to escape it, i just need to justify it.

so… if anyone has any more book suggestions, i’m planning on storming the catholic book store this weekend, if i can find one!

 

[jmcrae]

wouldn’t he have utilized her while she was alive in the same way if that’s what he intended for her? i’ve heard the “water into wine” story a lot but other than what he said while he was being crucified, i don’t know of any other time when he said anything about her being anything more than his earthly mother. and i’m saying “i don’t know of any other time” because i’m not an expert on scripture.

“Just his earthly mother” - what does that phrase actually mean?

Could your own mother ever stop being your mother? When you get to Heaven, you will no longer be married to your spouse, because the covenant of marriage ends at the moment of death, but you will still be the parent of your children, and the child of your parents - those relationships can never end.

but it seems like we’re putting this huge emphasis on her when jesus didn’t seem to. at least not biblically. i realize she’s his mother, and she played a very special role, and no doubt she’s in heaven, and also that she can and will pray for us… but… sometimes i feel like most catholics rely on her a bit more than i’m comfortable with, personally.

I think if you were to just sit down in what Matthew Kelly calls “the classroom of silence” and just meditate on what it is to be a mother, and also meditate on what it is to be God Incarnate, the beauty and uniqueness of Mary will begin to make itself apparent to you.

Also maybe do some reading on the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament, because even if Mary is “just a vessel”, the only “God-bearing vessel” we can really compare her to is the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament, which carried, not God Himself, but God’s handiwork - the tablets of the Ten Commandments, and the manna from the desert, and the rod of Aaron.

at the same time, i’d love to be able to justify marian devotion, etc not only because of the benefits they claim, but also this apprehensiveness is the source of some doubt about catholicism… especially some of the claims of certain saints and apparitions. of course, we dont have to believe alot of these things, but it’s so engrained into catholic culture that it’s inescapable. not that i’d want to escape it, i just need to justify it.

To yourself, or to someone else?

so… if anyone has any more book suggestions, i’m planning on storming the catholic book store this weekend, if i can find one!

Hail Holy Queen, by Scott Hahn, isn’t bad. It gets into the history of Marian devotion, and talks about the theology that drives it.

 

[alt101]

jmcrae-

to myself.

it’s hard for me to put into perspective. i didn’t grow up with a mother figure, maybe that’s why. or maybe i am just missing the point somehow.

"you will still be the parent of your children, and the child of your parents - those relationships can never end. "

-where did you get that information?

i really hope i’m not offending anyone, i’m just relating to you how i feel about it. i’m definitely not trying to debate!

 

[jmcrae]

jmcrae-

to myself.

it’s hard for me to put into perspective. i didn’t grow up with a mother figure, maybe that’s why. or maybe i am just missing the point somehow.

Well, let’s break it down. God is God. There is nothing greater than God. There is nothing that even approaches to the greatness of God, because God is entirely Other. He’s not just a better or more perfect person than us; He’s the source - the first cause - of existence itself - of time, of space, and of every other imaginable thing. If there are other dimensions, God caused them to exist. If there are aliens, God caused them to exist. Even the empty spaces between the molecules and atoms were created by God.

This God came to Mary and asked her permission to come into the world as a human being. When she said “Yes,” He joined Himself - a Self that is so vast that not even the Universe itself can hold it - He joined Himself to her ovum, and became a human zygote, and grew from there into a man - the man we call Jesus.

If you contemplate what it is that Mary did, which no other human being has ever done or ever will do in the way that she did it, it becomes more and more awesome to think about. She is, indeed, the greatest human being who has ever lived, because she alone contained God in her body - this God whom the Universe itself cannot contain, she contained.

"you will still be the parent of your children, and the child of your parents - those relationships can never end. "

-where did you get that information?

From a child, actually - but it makes perfect sense. You cannot ever “un-birth” your child, and you cannot ever cause your parents to not have come together and had you. The parent-child relationship is eternal, because the human soul is eternal.

 

[Della]

wouldn’t he have utilized her while she was alive in the same way if that’s what he intended for her? i’ve heard the “water into wine” story a lot but other than what he said while he was being crucified, i don’t know of any other time when he said anything about her being anything more than his earthly mother. and i’m saying “i don’t know of any other time” because i’m not an expert on scripture.

The Gospel emphasis, and rightly too, is on Jesus–his life, his death and resurrection, his sending forth the Apostles to take the Gospel message to the whole world. Everything in them is related to those aspects of our faith. The Epistles were mostly centered on the history of the early Church, disciplinary issues, and defining the theology of Christ (mostly by St. Paul).

Mary’s life and mission was one of humble submission to the will of God. And at that point in the life of the Church, the will of God was for her to be the “handmaid of the Lord” since her whole life was consecrated to her Son and to his mission. It wasn’t until her life on earth was finished that her fuller mission was better understood. The kernel of her heavenly mission was there, especially in Revelation 11:19 through chapter 12, verses generally overlooked or heavily disputed by some Protestants. There are also OT references that would take too much space to list here. Also, our beliefs about her are intricately associated with that of the Communion of Saints. Mary is the greatest saint, not just for being Jesus’ Mother, although that is an incomparable act of faith, but also for her perfect faithfulness and love.

but it seems like we’re putting this huge emphasis on her when jesus didn’t seem to. at least not biblically. i realize she’s his mother, and she played a very special role, and no doubt she’s in heaven, and also that she can and will pray for us… but… sometimes i feel like most catholics rely on her a bit more than i’m comfortable with, personally.

You need a relationship with her in order to really understand her place within the Church. You wrote farther down in the thread that you had no motherly relationship in your life. So, instead of approaching Mary in that way, think of her as a loving friend, an older sister, a perfect prayer partner. She is quite willing to meet you wherever/however you can best relate to her. And from personal experience I can tell you she has a wonderful sense of humor–not something one would expect from the image some portray of her, but she does. She’s a real person–as real as you and I with her own personality and way of doing things. God doesn’t annihilate our personalities nor impose himself on us, rather he uses us as we are and builds on nature. Mary has been highly exalted within the Church but only because her God did so first.

at the same time, i’d love to be able to justify marian devotion, etc not only because of the benefits they claim, but also this apprehensiveness is the source of some doubt about catholicism… especially some of the claims of certain saints and apparitions. of course, we dont have to believe alot of these things, but it’s so engrained into catholic culture that it’s inescapable. not that i’d want to escape it, i just need to justify it.

Saints often speak of Mary in the language of love. When we love someone we praise their good qualities and make much of them. This is called “hyper-dulia” or exalted veneration. It is not worship or adoration, which belongs to God alone. But, God is not niggardly in his love nor in giving exaltation to those whom he pleases. He knows that every Hail Mary is in praise of his great work of salvation through the Incarnation of his Son. He knows we cannot have love without relationships, and the best relationship we can have is with those who have lived lives of holiness and are now with him in glory, able and more than willing to help us who are still on earth in our journey to him.

so… if anyone has any more book suggestions, i’m planning on storming the catholic book store this weekend, if i can find one!

At this point in your development I think Hail Holy Queen would be best. I don’t think you are ready for the writings of the great Saints about Mary as they would be too hard for you to comprehend. You have to first come to see Mary’s place within the Church and your own life before you can read words of exalted love and deep theology about her.

 

[mercygate]

i thought about asking for some other penance, but i felt weird about trying to pick and choose my penance, you know?? plus i’d like to think that if nothing else, i try to be obedient!

but it makes me uneasy to say the rosary as my penance.



i guess i’ll just ask for a replacement for the rosary.

i’m sorry, T O, i’m kinda new to catholicism and i’m not really sure what you’re talking about… excuse my naivity!

but by reading your signature, i can see how you’d be put off by this thread.

I was squeamish about Mary when I came nto the Church, even though I used to DEFEND the Marian Dogmas to Catholics all the time. I would advise you to pray that rosary. REALLY meditate on the mysteries, and think of it as asking Our Lady to present your prayer AS her perfect prayer before the throne of the Father.

It won’t hurt.

 

[mercygate]

u guys are so awesome.

maybe i should start addressing my questions to you, Della

lol

i’ll definitely check those books out too…

thanks alot!

My favorite “Rosary” book is A Doorway to Silence: the Contemplative Use of the Rosary by Robert Llewelyn. Llewelyn, BTW, was an Anglican.

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

Because that’s what the priest wants you do to for your penance. It doesn’t mean that from now on, you have to pray five decades of the Rosary every day for the rest of your life (which is what a devotion to the Rosary would entail).

I would just do it out of obedience to the priest, if it were me.

Your choice either the Rosary or fifty push-ups!
Actually that’s a great idea, do a rosary of push-ups…:idea:

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

it’s hard for me to put into perspective. i didn’t grow up with a mother figure, maybe that’s why. or maybe i am just missing the point somehow.

Me either, that’s one reason I love doing my rosary and litany every night. It helps me with that “loss”.

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

As far as a beginner’s library:
Get Pope Benedict’s compendium
Catholitism for dumbies (lot’s of newbie type stuff) Fr Trigillio is a pretty good writer, he is on EWTN from time to time.
Anything by Scott Hahn (hail Holy Queen or Lamb’s Supper in particuliar)
Fr Groschele’s book on eucharistic adoration
A book of Catholic prayers (should have a few litanies too)
A Catholic Bible (not a Protestent Bible, they leave books out)
There is a great book of St Padre Pio’s devotions. Absolutely one of the holiest men of all time.

Start working on your prayer / devotional time. Spiritual exercises build spiritual muscle. God bless your efforts.

 

[po18guy]

thanks everybody…

and thanks for being so supportive and informative…

while i will no doubt avoid the rosary till my next confession (this sunday) i know very well what my penance will be and i’ll take these thoughts with me.

i’d rather just say the rosary and feel right about it. also, i’d like to think that if nothing else, i could at least be obedient about my penance!

i’ve got a long way to go, ppl…

Keep in mind that who you are confessing to is actually Christ. The priest is acting “in persona Christi” in giving absolution. So, the penance might have more importance than you imagine. Also, as others have clearly stated, the Rosary is scripture, plain and simple. It is a greatly misunderstood contemplative prayer. It remains prayer.

Christ’s peace.

 

[alt101]

thanks again, everyone.

i appreciate all the reading suggestions and thoughts, etc… i’ll try to get my hands on some of these books.

hopefully a better understanding will help!

 

[Pixie_Dust]

so… if anyone has any more book suggestions, i’m planning on storming the catholic book store this weekend, if i can find one!

Probably too late for your book store adventure, but I wanted to recommend a couple of books:

The Seeker’s Guide to the Rosary is a good one to start with.
Rosary: Mysteries, Meditations and the Telling of the Beads goes a bit deeper giving the history of using beads to keep track of prayers and gives a very in-depth explanation of the Mysteries.

Also, I think you’d find the Chaplet of Divine Mercy a wonderful tool for devotion. Perhaps, if/when you’re given the Rosary as a penance, ask your priest to allow you to say this Chaplet instead of the Rosary until you’re more comfortable with it? I know what you mean about feeling odd “picking” your penance, but it can’t hurt to ask! While I pray this Chaplet, I meditate on the Sorrowful Mysteries or on each of the five wounds of Christ.

 

[alt101]

airmaria.com/2007/08/08/st-dominic-and-the-rosary/

i found this site… i’ve never even heard of it before… it seems to have alot of good info