RSV-CE Needs Corrections

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mmortal03:
Thanks for mentioning this. While I had initially mentioned the Malachi verse from reading it elsewhere (albeit cutting and pasting from there and misspelling it as “Malichi”), it was not a function of my knowledge sohwing through. I do not know which is the better translation in this case. I noticed that another poster, Psalm45:9, mentioned it as well. Could it be that this is one of those places where we should rely on the LXX? How does the Masoretic Text translate into English here? Might it be that the traditional DRV fails in this particular case?
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From the same commentary, it says that the MT agrees with the Vulgate in the case of Malachi 1:11.

It’s threads like these that make me wish I could read and understand a dead language or two.
 
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mmortal03:
Thanks for mentioning this. While I had initially mentioned the Malachi verse from reading it elsewhere (albeit cutting and pasting from there and misspelling it as “Malichi”), it was not a function of my knowledge sohwing through. I do not know which is the better translation in this case. I noticed that another poster, Psalm45:9, mentioned it as well. Could it be that this is one of those places where we should rely on the LXX? How does the Masoretic Text translate into English here? Might it be that the traditional DRV fails in this particular case?
Click to expand...
From the same commentary, it says that the MT agrees with the Vulgate in the case of Malachi 1:11.

It’s threads like these that make me wish I could read and understand a dead language or two.
 
In the Hebrew of the Massorah:" something burned in honor of a deity" - therefore, not just incense, but any holocaust.
Latin Vulgate, “oblatio” - offering.
 
In the Hebrew of the Massorah:" something burned in honor of a deity" - therefore, not just incense, but any holocaust.
Latin Vulgate, “oblatio” - offering.
 
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mike0219116:
Out of curiosity, I looked-up Malachi 1:11 in my copy of “A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture,” which is based on the DR. I found it interesting that it says, “The LXX [Septuagint] translates, probably correctly: ‘In every place incense is offered to my name and a pure oblation’. It is certainly worthy of remark that whenever the Sacrifice of the New Testament is offered with full ritual, the use of incense is an integral part of the sacred function.”
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Yes, you are right. The translation that St. Justin Martyr uses (you can look it up in the Catholic Answer’s tract on the Mass) has the word, “incense” in it. St. Justin still saw it as a prophecy of the Mass/Divine Liturgy. So “incense” does not persay change the interpretation, just the word “sacrifice” strengthens that interpretation. You don’t have to think about it as much, but by having the word, “incense” used, it may make some people read over it without much thought about that verse.

It just surprises me that the NAB translated that verse as, “sacrifice” and even Isaiah 7:14 as “virgin” (in the text itself) when the RSV-CE does not. I have been told that the Jewish texts do translate Isaiah 7:14 as “young woman” It is the LXX that translates it “Virgin.” The Hebrew text could imply virgin, but then again, it could not. It is the Church that interprets it that way. I just found it ironic that NAB translates those two verses according to the Douay-Rheims/Vulgate, but not Luke 1:28. I believe the Vulgate says, “Ave, gratia plena.” Considering that the Catholic Edition of the RSV really is the insert of the Deutorcanonicals in the old testament and Catholic friendly words inserted in the New Testament, such as “full of grace” and “brethren of the Lord” instead of Brothers of the Lord. I still prefer the RSV-CE over the NAB. though.
 
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mike0219116:
Out of curiosity, I looked-up Malachi 1:11 in my copy of “A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture,” which is based on the DR. I found it interesting that it says, “The LXX [Septuagint] translates, probably correctly: ‘In every place incense is offered to my name and a pure oblation’. It is certainly worthy of remark that whenever the Sacrifice of the New Testament is offered with full ritual, the use of incense is an integral part of the sacred function.”
Click to expand...
Yes, you are right. The translation that St. Justin Martyr uses (you can look it up in the Catholic Answer’s tract on the Mass) has the word, “incense” in it. St. Justin still saw it as a prophecy of the Mass/Divine Liturgy. So “incense” does not persay change the interpretation, just the word “sacrifice” strengthens that interpretation. You don’t have to think about it as much, but by having the word, “incense” used, it may make some people read over it without much thought about that verse.

It just surprises me that the NAB translated that verse as, “sacrifice” and even Isaiah 7:14 as “virgin” (in the text itself) when the RSV-CE does not. I have been told that the Jewish texts do translate Isaiah 7:14 as “young woman” It is the LXX that translates it “Virgin.” The Hebrew text could imply virgin, but then again, it could not. It is the Church that interprets it that way. I just found it ironic that NAB translates those two verses according to the Douay-Rheims/Vulgate, but not Luke 1:28. I believe the Vulgate says, “Ave, gratia plena.” Considering that the Catholic Edition of the RSV really is the insert of the Deutorcanonicals in the old testament and Catholic friendly words inserted in the New Testament, such as “full of grace” and “brethren of the Lord” instead of Brothers of the Lord. I still prefer the RSV-CE over the NAB. though.
 
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mmortal03:
Thanks for your response. I would appreciate it if you would, however, take a look at the usage table at the page at Wikipedia that I linked to (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thine) . It precisely says otherwise, as it specifically denotes a difference between the genitive case and the possessive case. The following two pages also denote a clear difference.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possessive_case
and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genitive_case .

Thanks
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I came, I saw, I was not impressed. Wiki is not an authoritative source unless it is backed up by some other authoritative source.

The “clear difference” mentioned in the “Possessive” article was in “some languages;” the article is not specific to English.

If you want to claim that the usage of “thy” and “thine” is driven by some difference in OE or ME case usage, rather than by the initial sound of the following word, you’ll have to find something in a historical linguistics textbook, or, even better, a textbook of the history of the English language itself.

DaveBj
 
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mmortal03:
Thanks for your response. I would appreciate it if you would, however, take a look at the usage table at the page at Wikipedia that I linked to (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thine) . It precisely says otherwise, as it specifically denotes a difference between the genitive case and the possessive case. The following two pages also denote a clear difference.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possessive_case
and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genitive_case .

Thanks
Click to expand...
I came, I saw, I was not impressed. Wiki is not an authoritative source unless it is backed up by some other authoritative source.

The “clear difference” mentioned in the “Possessive” article was in “some languages;” the article is not specific to English.

If you want to claim that the usage of “thy” and “thine” is driven by some difference in OE or ME case usage, rather than by the initial sound of the following word, you’ll have to find something in a historical linguistics textbook, or, even better, a textbook of the history of the English language itself.

DaveBj
 
Psalm45:9:
Yes, you are right. The translation that St. Justin Martyr uses (you can look it up in the Catholic Answer’s tract on the Mass) has the word, “incense” in it. St. Justin still saw it as a prophecy of the Mass/Divine Liturgy. So “incense” does not persay change the interpretation, just the word “sacrifice” strengthens that interpretation. You don’t have to think about it as much, but by having the word, “incense” used, it may make some people read over it without much thought about that verse.

It just surprises me that the NAB translated that verse as, “sacrifice” and even Isaiah 7:14 as “virgin” (in the text itself) when the RSV-CE does not. I have been told that the Jewish texts do translate Isaiah 7:14 as “young woman” It is the LXX that translates it “Virgin.” The Hebrew text could imply virgin, but then again, it could not. It is the Church that interprets it that way. I just found it ironic that NAB translates those two verses according to the Douay-Rheims/Vulgate, but not Luke 1:28. I believe the Vulgate says, “Ave, gratia plena.” Considering that the Catholic Edition of the RSV really is the insert of the Deutorcanonicals in the old testament and Catholic friendly words inserted in the New Testament, such as “full of grace” and “brethren of the Lord” instead of Brothers of the Lord. I still prefer the RSV-CE over the NAB. though.
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As you said the Old Testament was not changed in the RSV-CE, all they did was add the Deuterocanonical books. However, in the RSV-SCE, the Old Testment WAS changed, because as mentioned in this thread, Isaiah 7:14 was changed to “virgin”.

I’d like to know what other changes were made in the Old Testament besides Isaiah 7:14.
 
Psalm45:9:
Yes, you are right. The translation that St. Justin Martyr uses (you can look it up in the Catholic Answer’s tract on the Mass) has the word, “incense” in it. St. Justin still saw it as a prophecy of the Mass/Divine Liturgy. So “incense” does not persay change the interpretation, just the word “sacrifice” strengthens that interpretation. You don’t have to think about it as much, but by having the word, “incense” used, it may make some people read over it without much thought about that verse.

It just surprises me that the NAB translated that verse as, “sacrifice” and even Isaiah 7:14 as “virgin” (in the text itself) when the RSV-CE does not. I have been told that the Jewish texts do translate Isaiah 7:14 as “young woman” It is the LXX that translates it “Virgin.” The Hebrew text could imply virgin, but then again, it could not. It is the Church that interprets it that way. I just found it ironic that NAB translates those two verses according to the Douay-Rheims/Vulgate, but not Luke 1:28. I believe the Vulgate says, “Ave, gratia plena.” Considering that the Catholic Edition of the RSV really is the insert of the Deutorcanonicals in the old testament and Catholic friendly words inserted in the New Testament, such as “full of grace” and “brethren of the Lord” instead of Brothers of the Lord. I still prefer the RSV-CE over the NAB. though.
Click to expand...
As you said the Old Testament was not changed in the RSV-CE, all they did was add the Deuterocanonical books. However, in the RSV-SCE, the Old Testment WAS changed, because as mentioned in this thread, Isaiah 7:14 was changed to “virgin”.

I’d like to know what other changes were made in the Old Testament besides Isaiah 7:14.
 
Psalm 8 is different in the Second edition. First addition reads, “made him little less than God”. I don’t own a Second edition but browsing it at the bookstore I recall it reading, “made him a little lower than the angels”.

I’d love to see a comprehensive list put out by Ignatius on the changes.
 
Psalm 8 is different in the Second edition. First addition reads, “made him little less than God”. I don’t own a Second edition but browsing it at the bookstore I recall it reading, “made him a little lower than the angels”.

I’d love to see a comprehensive list put out by Ignatius on the changes.
 
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GWitherow:
Psalm 8 is different in the Second edition. First addition reads, “made him little less than God”. I don’t own a Second edition but browsing it at the bookstore I recall it reading, “made him a little lower than the angels”.

I’d love to see a comprehensive list put out by Ignatius on the changes.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I just checked it; It says, “Yet you have made him little less than the angels,”
 
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GWitherow:
Psalm 8 is different in the Second edition. First addition reads, “made him little less than God”. I don’t own a Second edition but browsing it at the bookstore I recall it reading, “made him a little lower than the angels”.

I’d love to see a comprehensive list put out by Ignatius on the changes.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I just checked it; It says, “Yet you have made him little less than the angels,”
 
This New addition, it doesn’t have gender sensitive words in it does it? If not I would be interested in purchasing one and where can I purchase one?
 
This New addition, it doesn’t have gender sensitive words in it does it? If not I would be interested in purchasing one and where can I purchase one?
 
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mccorm45:
Nope, the gold flakes are falling off mine as well. That seems to be the only problem with mine!
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The print job was done in China so what did you expect?
 
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mccorm45:
Nope, the gold flakes are falling off mine as well. That seems to be the only problem with mine!
Click to expand...
The print job was done in China so what did you expect?
 
Psalm45:9:
This New addition, it doesn’t have gender sensitive words in it does it? If not I would be interested in purchasing one and where can I purchase one?
Click to expand...
The RSV is well known for not using gender neutal pronouns. This new revision is also faithful in that regard.
 
Psalm45:9:
This New addition, it doesn’t have gender sensitive words in it does it? If not I would be interested in purchasing one and where can I purchase one?
Click to expand...
The RSV is well known for not using gender neutal pronouns. This new revision is also faithful in that regard.
 
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