Rude?

[estesbob]

Had a strange situation at our communion services morning
. We are in a tourist town and sitting in the front pew was a man who is obviously a visitor and evidently was waiting for Mass to begin. We do not, however, have Mass on Mondays we have a communion service.

The lady who was leading the communion service walked out and stood at the Ambo starting the service. This man got up, glared at her, and walked out.

I thought that was bad enough but then we got to the petitions the lady leading the service “prayed” for the man who walked out stating she hoped he did not walk out because he didn’t like a lady on the altar.

I think both actions were uncalled for. I know there are people who are not comfortable with communion services, I know there are people who do not like Eucharistic ministers male or female but I do not think that matters here-the question is having found yourself in a communion service why would you just not grin and bear it rather than stalking out of the church?

So do you think both actions were rude? Neither? One or the other? Or am I rude for bringing it up

 

[lizaanne]

I suppose that I’m the wrong one to ask because I don’t think women belong in that role, but that’s not your question and would drag us off topic.

I think it is entirely inappropriate for her to personalize the prayer intentions. Rude, no. Wrong, yes.

I don’t blame him for leaving if what he came for was Mass and found a woman at the ambo. I probably would have left as well. Rude, no. But perhaps he didn’t have to be so huffy about it.

~Liza

 

[Stylites]

Had a strange situation at our communion services morning
. We are in a tourist town and sitting in the front pew was a man who is obviously a visitor and evidently was waiting for Mass to begin. We do not, however, have Mass on Mondays we have a communion service.

The lady who was leading the communion service walked out and stood at the Ambo starting the service. This man got up, glared at her, and walked out.

I thought that was bad enough but then we got to the petitions the lady leading the service “prayed” for the man who walked out stating she hoped he did not walk out because he didn’t like a lady on the altar.

I think both actions were uncalled for. I know there are people who are not comfortable with communion services, I know there are people who do not like Eucharistic ministers male or female but I do not think that matters here-the question is having found yourself in a communion service why would you just not grin and bear it rather than stalking out of the church?

So do you think both actions were rude? Neither? One or the other? Or am I rude for bringing it up

There’s not enough information available to say why the man walked out, so I can’t determine whether his leaving was rude or not. But then publicly praying about the man who had left and making big assumptions on why he left and spreading scandal and gossip was certainly wrong, in my humble opinion.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

ditto everything lizanne said.

 

[CountrySteve]

i dont think it was rude of the guy cause he was probally going there thinking hey im goin come for a mass then seeing a women and he’s probally shocked and didnt want to particape in the mass and i agree with lizaanne about thats not a role for a women

 

[Cristiano]

Had a strange situation at our communion services morning
. We are in a tourist town and sitting in the front pew was a man who is obviously a visitor and evidently was waiting for Mass to begin. We do not, however, have Mass on Mondays we have a communion service.

The lady who was leading the communion service walked out and stood at the Ambo starting the service. This man got up, glared at her, and walked out.

I thought that was bad enough but then we got to the petitions the lady leading the service “prayed” for the man who walked out stating she hoped he did not walk out because he didn’t like a lady on the altar.

I think both actions were uncalled for. I know there are people who are not comfortable with communion services, I know there are people who do not like Eucharistic ministers male or female but I do not think that matters here-the question is having found yourself in a communion service why would you just not grin and bear it rather than stalking out of the church?

So do you think both actions were rude? Neither? One or the other? Or am I rude for bringing it up

I thought that communion services were not allowed during the week. I thought that they should be available only on Sundays if it is not possible for people to go to a nearby parish.

 

[estesbob]

I thought that communion services were not allowed during the week. I thought that they should be available only on Sundays if it is not possible for people to go to a nearby parish.

We have one every Monday Morning

 

[Godfollower]

Had a strange situation at our communion services morning
. We are in a tourist town and sitting in the front pew was a man who is obviously a visitor and evidently was waiting for Mass to begin. We do not, however, have Mass on Mondays we have a communion service.

The lady who was leading the communion service walked out and stood at the Ambo starting the service. This man got up, glared at her, and walked out.

I thought that was bad enough but then we got to the petitions the lady leading the service “prayed” for the man who walked out stating she hoped he did not walk out because he didn’t like a lady on the altar.

I think both actions were uncalled for. I know there are people who are not comfortable with communion services, I know there are people who do not like Eucharistic ministers male or female but I do not think that matters here-the question is having found yourself in a communion service why would you just not grin and bear it rather than stalking out of the church?

So do you think both actions were rude? Neither? One or the other? Or am I rude for bringing it up

If he was there for Mass and got “only” a Communion service, his distress is inexplicable. Glaring at the woman up front is strange and probably rude, depending on the surrounding circumstances; it’s really hard to tell without being there. For all we know, he hadn’t known something was scheduled and was mad that something was happening while he was trying to commune with Our Lord. I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, while wishing that he had been more discrete.

As for the leader of the service . . . .

Publicly accusing a complete stranger of sexism – that’s her complaint, yes? – based on what she apparently admitted was a supposition about his unspoken motives in a forum in which he could not possibly have defended himself (even if he’d still been there to do it) was a perversion of the prayers and needs to be dealt with. The sins of gossip and calumny spring to mind, and probably pride as well, not to mention false witness. But when she changed the prayers to attack the man’s motives, she was speaking for the parish as a whole because of her position.

I think you need to talk to the pastor.

 

[aimee]

ditto everything lizanne said.

I agree with lizanne, as well

 

[Godfollower]

{Snip}
I thought that was bad enough but then we got to the petitions the lady leading the service “prayed” for the man who walked out stating she hoped he did not walk out because he didn’t like a lady on the altar.
{Snip}.

By the way, thanks for bringing this up. I’d object to a lady “on” the altar, too.

 

[Aramis]

I thought that communion services were not allowed during the week. I thought that they should be available only on Sundays if it is not possible for people to go to a nearby parish.

It’s the bishop’s call. However…

If the communion service is regularly scheduled, it’s supposed to be lead by a deacon or instituted acolyte.

The man was rude for making a spectacle of his leaving.

The laywoman leading the service should not be extemporaneously composing prayers of the faithful petitions. (Even deacons and priests are not supposed to do so. They’re supposed to be prepped before any service.)

 

[Cristiano]

We have one every Monday Morning

I was thinking of Redemptionis Sacramentum paragraphs 164 to 166. It looks like that quite a few things were not done in acordance with the instructions and so I am not surprised by the reaction of the man,and I would have walked out too assuming that it was some “Independent Catholic Church”.

[164.] “If participation at the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible on account of the absence of a sacred minister or for some other grave cause,”[269] then it is the Christian people’s right that the diocesan Bishop should provide as far as he is able for some celebration to be held on Sundays for that community under his authority and according to the Church’s norms. Sunday celebrations of this specific kind, however, are to be considered altogether extraordinary. All Deacons or lay members of Christ’s faithful who are assigned a part in such celebrations by the diocesan Bishop should strive “to keep alive in the community a genuine ‘hunger’ for the Eucharist, so that no opportunity for the celebration of Mass will ever be missed, also taking advantage of the occasional presence of a Priest who is not impeded by Church law from celebrating Mass”.[270]

[165.]** It is necessary to avoid any sort of confusion between this type of gathering and the celebration of the Eucharist.**[271] The diocesan Bishops, therefore, should prudently discern whether Holy Communion ought to be distributed in these gatherings. The matter would appropriately be determined in view of a more ample co-ordination in the Bishops’ Conference, to be put into effect after the recognitio of the acts by the Apostolic See through the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone. Nor is it ever appropriate to refer to any member of the lay faithful as “presiding” over the celebration.

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday. Priests are therefore earnestly requested to celebrate Mass daily for the people in one of the churches entrusted to their care.

 

[estesbob]

I was thinking of Redemptionis Sacramentum paragraphs 164 to 166. It looks like that quite a few things were not done in acordance with the instructions and so I am not surprised by the reaction of the man,and I would have walked out too assuming that it was some “Independent Catholic Church”.

[164.] “If participation at the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible on account of the absence of a sacred minister or for some other grave cause,”[269] then it is the Christian people’s right that the diocesan Bishop should provide as far as he is able for some celebration to be held on Sundays for that community under his authority and according to the Church’s norms. Sunday celebrations of this specific kind, however, are to be considered altogether extraordinary. All Deacons or lay members of Christ’s faithful who are assigned a part in such celebrations by the diocesan Bishop should strive “to keep alive in the community a genuine ‘hunger’ for the Eucharist, so that no opportunity for the celebration of Mass will ever be missed, also taking advantage of the occasional presence of a Priest who is not impeded by Church law from celebrating Mass”.[270]

[165.]** It is necessary to avoid any sort of confusion between this type of gathering and the celebration of the Eucharist.**[271] The diocesan Bishops, therefore, should prudently discern whether Holy Communion ought to be distributed in these gatherings. The matter would appropriately be determined in view of a more ample co-ordination in the Bishops’ Conference, to be put into effect after the recognitio of the acts by the Apostolic See through the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone. Nor is it ever appropriate to refer to any member of the lay faithful as “presiding” over the celebration.

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday. Priests are therefore earnestly requested to celebrate Mass daily for the people in one of the churches entrusted to their care.

Archbishop Chaput is a pretty orthodox Bishop so i doubt we would be doing it if he didnt think it was OK.

 

[Cristiano]

…The man was rude for making a spectacle of his leaving…

This is nonsense, why was it rude? There were so many red flags going on that probably he assumed that was some woman-priest service. Given the sad status of some parishes around the world that is a very reasonable expectation. I rather see him walking out than participating in something that he would believe to be sacrilegious.

 

[Battle_Warrior]

My question is: Where was the priest? No, I don’t think what the man did was rude. I hate seeing lay people (especially women) taking over a priest’s duties. I don’t like receiving Holy Communion from a little old lady.

 

[Bluegoat]

I think the woman’s prayer was ill-advised, but not necessarily rude. She said that she hoped he had not been offended if the OP is accurate, which is ok in itself, but maybe not something to pray publicly for.

Glaring at her and stalking out was rude IMO. If one feels one has to leave, it can be done less obviously. And it is possibly a bit presumptuous to make judgments when one is a guest in a parish. For all he knew this might have been an unusual occurrence for a particular reason.

 

[Cristiano]

Archbishop Chaput is a pretty orthodox Bishop so i doubt we would be doing it if he didnt think it was OK.

First the Bishop does not know all the details of what goes on in each parish. If I were to follow your logic I would also say that I also approves of the ad personam prayer that the woman made. I do not believe that to be true. Just because a Bishop might approve of a Communion service on a Monday, that does not mean that he automatically approves how it is done. I have seen priests getting creative walking around the instructions of the Bishops, and I have seen lay people getting creative around the instructions of the pastor (even in front of their faces). If the presence alone of an orthodox Bishop like Mnsgr. Cahup were sufficient to have a perfectly orthodox Diocese, then we would not have so many problems as we have today in the Church.

 

[estesbob]

My question is: Where was the priest? No, I don’t think what the man did was rude. I hate seeing lay people (especially women) taking over a priest’s duties. I don’t like receiving Holy Communion from a little old lady.

It was his day off. Because of" this little old ladies " dedication I was able to receive our Lord and Savior this morning.

 

[purplesunshine]

I don’t see how either were rude. The man quietly excused himself. He didn’t jump up and yell “heretic”

The presitor encouraged the parish to pray for the man. Her fear that he was just mad she was a female probably didn’t need to be said, however, she didn’t say something like “antifeminists” or “woman-haters”.

A sad situation all around.

 

[estesbob]

First the Bishop does not know all the details of what goes on in each parish. If I were to follow your logic I would also say that I also approves of the ad personam prayer that the woman made. I do not believe that to be true. Just because a Bishop might approve of a Communion service on a Monday, that does not mean that he automatically approves how it is done. I have seen priests getting creative walking around the instructions of the Bishops, and I have seen lay people getting creative around the instructions of the pastor (even in front of their faces). If the presence alone of an orthodox Bishop like Mnsgr. Cahup were sufficient to have a perfectly orthodox Diocese, then we would not have so many problems as we have today in the Church.

This is my fourth pastor since I moved to this parish. We have always had a Communion service on Monday mornings and other than two-year period where when we had a deacon ishas always alternated between the sacristan and this lady. As I said in the previous post because of this set up I got to receive our Lord and Savior this morning. For the life of me I cannot understand why that man would walk out knowing that he could hold the creator of the universe in his hands and follow the admonitions of John: 6 if he would just wait a few more minutes.