Rude?

[Cristiano]

In the end we don’t know why the man left, or what was in his head, or what he was thinking or what he knew or didn’t know. But according to your report, the behavior of the woman “on the altar” was way out of line, trying to interpret, personalize and calumniate about a strangers’ unknown actions and motivations, especially extemporaneously in the faux form of a prayer to God.

I would also be a little bit more understanding and forgiving about the woman. Maybe her concern was not about the rejection of her presence but it was about the rejection of the Real Presence because of her presence. Under those circumstances I would have probably thought of a prayer for the individual too, even if not a public one.

 

[pnewton]

One more thing that was emphasized about communion services. I they lay people are presiding over them, it is not to be a single layperson. Rather, the parts are to be divided up so that no one person could be seen as the presider. This is probably something that could be easily corrected. It would be simple enough for the person who takes the lead to ask others to open, lead the prayer and close.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

I don’t really see anything about this man making a show of himself leaving. A glare could mean anything depending on the person who says it. It could be a long stare or it could be a glance. Either way, I’ve noticed people here putting their own spin on his leaving from “making a show of himself” to “stomping out” - neither of which was described. It sounds like some people are getting a bit carried away with their imaginations.

Was it rude? No. The man had every right to walk out on what he [apparently] believed to be wrong. I’ve walked out on a good share of communion services conducted by snooty old ladies on a number of times. In my case, I could see easily see that the lady was very proud and haughty about what she was being allowed to do. It was almost comical they way she carried herself and there was no way I was sticking around for “her” service. I have stayed for communion services by deacons, but not by some lay woman who has no business being up there.

 

[estesbob]

I fully understand your sensitivity, but it is better to insult a dozen people than to insult God. We know that there are a lot of people that call themselves Catholics and that attend several kinds of non valid functions performed by “fringe” groups. The sad fact is that the devil does not always lie to us, often he also uses the truth to make us doubt and fall into error.

How is sticking around to hold our Lord and Savior in your hand and consume his body insulting God? The idea that a Catholic Church in a tourist town would have somehow been hijacked by a fringe group is beyond belief. I have already said I thought both of them were rude but the defense of this gentleman seem to be getting very stretched.

 

[Phemie]

How is sticking around to hold our Lord and Savior in your hand and consume his body insulting God? The idea that a Catholic Church in a tourist town would have somehow been hijacked by a fringe group is beyond belief. I have already said I thought both of them were rude but the defense of this gentleman seem to be getting very stretched.

Isn’t it just possible that he didn’t know what was going to go on so he left? If he didn’t know it was a Communion Service, how on earth would he know that he’d be getting Communion in a few minutes.

I’ve had people get up and leave during Morning Prayer because it was singing and not the rosary. People have their quirks and you can’t change that.

 

[Stylites]

How is sticking around to hold our Lord and Savior in your hand and consume his body insulting God? The idea that a Catholic Church in a tourist town would have somehow been hijacked by a fringe group is beyond belief. I have already said I thought both of them were rude but the defense of this gentleman seem to be getting very stretched.

Well, first you need to be reasonable in your answers. Cristiano was trying to place himself in the stanger’s shoes, not yours. The man might have believed something other than a valid service was being held, or that he stumbled into a pretend church, etc.

The man is being defended because his actions are being described by one witness (you) and we are giving him the benefit of the doubt since we haven’t heard him defend his own actions here, while the woman’s words are much more objective and concrete than merely subjective gestures or glances or looks or glares.

(But to be blunt in answer to your question: Even if the man glared at the woman and walked out because he wasn’t comfortable being there, he was in no way rude.)

 

[estesbob]

Well, first you need to be reasonable in your answers. Cristiano was trying to place himself in the stanger’s shoes, not yours. The man might have believed something other than a valid service was being held, or that he stumbled into a pretend church, etc.

The man is being defended because his actions are being described by one witness (you) and we are giving him the benefit of the doubt since we haven’t heard him defend his own actions here, while the woman’s words are much more objective and concrete than merely subjective gestures or glances or looks or glares.

I guess there’s not much to discuss them. My observations and the observations of the lady leading the service are discounted while the guy who walked out becomes Everyman to be ascribed with any noble motives anybody wants to give him.

Thanks to everybody for their opinions, I am sorry that this seems be an area we cannot discuss in CAF.

.

 

[Stylites]

I guess there’s not much to discuss them. My observations and the observations of the lady leading the service are discounted while the guy who walked out becomes Everyman to be ascribed with any noble motives anybody wants to give him.

Thanks to everybody for their opinions, I am sorry that this seems be an area we cannot discuss in CAF.

.

As I said, you ought to be reasonable in your answers, and not take people’s fair suggestions and opinions so personally.

 

[Aramis]

Please explain to me the format of a Catholic Communion Service as opposed to a Mass.

Is there a specific liturgy followed and are liberties taken? Just curious since this didn’t exist when I was a Catholic.

THe liturgy of the word is followed, including a homily if lead by a deacon. Then, after the creed, at the point where the gifts would be brought forth, it changes. The Deacon or acolyte (per the rubrics in the sacramentary I’ve seen) spreads the corporal, then retrieves the ciborium with the precious body. It remains closed upon the corporal for the moment. The Lord’s Prayer, the Sign of Peace, the Ecce Agnus Dei, a quiet prayer by the presider (differs slightly when used by a deacon), and the invitation to communion if needed, and the communion itself (with the host held above the ciborium by deacons), possibly with hymn or daily communion acclamation. Then, the reposition of the Body, and an optional post-communion hymn. Then into the closing prayers.

The diocese of Lansing has the approved form for a lay-lead communion service as a PDF:
dioceseoflansing.org/worship/PTCommunionOutsideMass.pdf

The diocese of Erie has a precis on it, combined with an instruction and discussion of its use:
eriercd.org/pdf/comsrvp.pdf

 

[Phemie]

THe liturgy of the word is followed, including a homily if lead by a deacon. Then, after the creed, at the point where the gifts would be brought forth, it changes. The Deacon or acolyte (per the rubrics in the sacramentary I’ve seen) spreads the corporal, then retrieves the ciborium with the precious body. It remains closed upon the corporal for the moment. The Lord’s Prayer, the Sign of Peace, the Ecce Agnus Dei, a quiet prayer by the presider (differs slightly when used by a deacon), and the invitation to communion if needed, and the communion itself (with the host held above the ciborium by deacons), possibly with hymn or daily communion acclamation. Then, the reposition of the Body, and an optional post-communion hymn. Then into the closing prayers.

The diocese of Lansing has the approved form for a lay-lead communion service as a PDF:
dioceseoflansing.org/worship/PTCommunionOutsideMass.pdf

The diocese of Erie has a precis on it, combined with an instruction and discussion of its use:
eriercd.org/pdf/comsrvp.pdf

Things differ slightly in Canada where we have a large number of parishes that have no priests. The ritual book is called “Sunday Liturgy of the Word and Hours” and the format differs from the start of Mass in many ways. There’s no mistaking one for the other.

Both the Sunday Liturgy of the Word & the Liturgy of Hours are written to be used without Communion but there is also a Communion Rite that can be added with a slight variation when we come to the Lord’s Prayer.

 

[Cristiano]

I am not trying to pick on Bob or to justify any bad behavior that might have been shown in the event that he described. I just want to let people on that on a different thread, a pretty orthodox individual posted the following:

…I have been a RCIA catechist,FHC catechist, so it is not as if I am not doing anything to help.
I am scandalised by the “mass”/service which took place last Sunday, as our pastor was ill. Rather than cancelling the Mass, the laity took over. My children were confused and scandalised. I am the bad guy,since the whole parish was delighted by it. It would be easier to take if so many of those taking part were not pro-woman priest etc. A lady got up and read the Gospel, and then gave a reflection.
I just can’t do this anymore.I don’t know how I can remain catholic .It’s a joke.

Later in the thread the person acknowledged that she did not know of Communion Services. I think that as human beings we are quite prone to errors and we should be quite careful when expressing any judgement either way.

 

[Aramis]

Things differ slightly in Canada where we have a large number of parishes that have no priests. The ritual book is called “Sunday Liturgy of the Word and Hours” and the format differs from the start of Mass in many ways. There’s no mistaking one for the other.

Both the Sunday Liturgy of the Word & the Liturgy of Hours are written to be used without Communion but there is also a Communion Rite that can be added with a slight variation when we come to the Lord’s Prayer.

There’s a separate sunday protocol for the US, too, but I’ve never seen it. The few times I’ve been in a village on sunday have been to Russian Orthodox villages with priests.

I know Dad’s had to use it once… priest was snowed in… but it’s seldom used.