Rudeness factor: When are you having kids? or Are you done having kids yet?

[Schieffelin]

Interesting conversation! I do think both questions are equally bad in terms of rudeness. But for childless couples there is an extra level of actual pain that is induced by the comments. For people with a lot of kids I suspect the question is very annoying, but probably not all that painful. Please correct me if I’m wrong though because I would really like to know.

 

[QuiteCatholic]

I get this a lot. We have six, 5 boys and 1 little girl. My favorite rude question is, are they All yours? I reply, no I just like to bring radom kids with me and I do my grocery shopping. I used to think it was rude but now I just fine it amusing. And I always say to whomever that I would never have wanted it any other way!

 

[Anglewannabe]

Since sex and procreation are now far removed, I think people forget what they are actually commenting on is your sex life. ."

That’s how I was brought up ie asking about kids is like asking a couple what is going on in their bedroom and that is totally inappropriate

 

[Anglewannabe]

.
So I guess I think we should try not to be put off or perceive rudeness where none is usually meant. People don’t want to hear about your sex life, really they don’t. What they want to know is, are you hoping, planning, trying, expecting a little bundle of joy soon? They want to share your happiness, or marvel at your crazy sense of bravery! Take it as a compliment. Only people who hate you or don’t care at all about you would neglect to ask you these personal questions. To those who muster the courage to ask, it should be obvious that something about you is intriguing and interesting. It is a good opportunity to witness.

With all due respect, I could NOT disagree more. Asking a couple about their plans to have children is NOT a getting to know you question. People ask because they want to compare you to them and rate who is higher/lower class.

If you are the type who loves to talk about it, there is nothing wrong with you sharing your information with whoever you wish. But for you to encourage other people to ask these questions and tell people to not be offended by it, is just insensitive. Some people are private and not to mention when someone discusses their sex life they are giving away personal information about their spouse which you do NOT do to someone you love.

Society is full of busy bodies and there is no need to take their garbage

 

[KostyaJMJ]

I think that asking about kids and family is just idle chit chat, not really something to get your knickers in a knot over. It’s the equivalent of chatting about the weather or the local sports team.

Considering how much conversations revolve around children and family it might just be a better idea to grow thicker skin rather than expect everybody to be sensitive to your problems.

 

[mommamaree]

With all due respect, I could NOT disagree more. Asking a couple about their plans to have children is NOT a getting to know you question. People ask because they want to compare you to them and rate who is higher/lower class.

If you are the type who loves to talk about it, there is nothing wrong with you sharing your information with whoever you wish. But for you to encourage other people to ask these questions and tell people to not be offended by it, is just insensitive. Some people are private and not to mention when someone discusses their sex life they are giving away personal information about their spouse which you do NOT do to someone you love.

Society is full of busy bodies and there is no need to take their garbage

Nice. So because I try to be kind to others, now I am insensitive? I answer other people’s questions, so I am in the wrong? I didn’t tell anyone not to be offended. I encouraged others not to take offense. There is a difference. And talking about having children is NOT sharing intimate details of one’s sex life. It is true that sex begets babies, but it does not follow that asking about a baby means that a person wants to know what goes on in the bedroom.

The lack of charity in your response to me is surprising, considering the fact that I have asked these questions of NO ONE, but have merely offered a perspective one could take in handling such questions when they do get asked. Do you think our Lord would be pleased with our attitude or our behavior if we were to get snarky or rude at somebody who asked us a personal question? We are supposed to be a peculiar people. We are supposed to stand out a bit from the depraved culture in which we find ourselves. So we would be delusional if we thought we would never get any questions about why we are different. As Christians, we are to be known by our love, not by our social etiquette or by our “rightness” in social situations.

 

[PatriceA]

I think that asking about kids and family is just idle chit chat, not really something to get your knickers in a knot over. It’s the equivalent of chatting about the weather or the local sports team.

Considering how much conversations revolve around children and family it might just be a better idea to grow thicker skin rather than expect everybody to be sensitive to your problems.

Perhaps it can be a little consideration on both sides of the question. Yes, sometimes it is just idle chit chat and people that get these kinds of questions shouldn’t always have an automatic knee jerk reaction to them. BUT, it would also go a long way if the person asking such questions would give a little more thought before they ask, that the person they are asking has suffered tremendously from infertility or multiple miscarriages, death of an infant, etc, etc. Its easy to say that someone should grow a thicker skin when you may not have had the burden of the cross to carry. All that some of us are asking is to have a bit more consideration before asking such questions, some of us may be in situations that aren’t apparent when it comes to the size of our families. I for one would feel absolutely horrible if I had thought I was only making chit chat but caused one of my friends more hurt and saddness because I couldn’t be bothered to be a little bit more considerate before I spoke.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

WOW, I think you need to step back a minute, mommamaree!

I agree, to a point, with what I believe anglewannabe was trying to get across.

I have been married for over 20 years. I cannot tell you how many “well meaning” people asked me why I had no children, when I reply “God has not let it happen, yet! ” I usually get a “barrage” of questions like "well have you seen a fertility specialist? Are you actually trying?
And then it is usually just assumed that I am a selfish and contracepting feminist!

It can be very hurtful and offensive, and I also believe that questions such as these, while is some cases may be because someone is showing genuine concern, I highly doubt that it’s the norm. At least it never has been in my experience.

Nice. So because I try to be kind to others, now I am insensitive? I answer other people’s questions, so I am in the wrong? I didn’t tell anyone not to be offended. I encouraged others not to take offense. There is a difference. And talking about having children is NOT sharing intimate details of one’s sex life. It is true that sex begets babies, but it does not follow that asking about a baby means that a person wants to know what goes on in the bedroom.

The lack of charity in your response to me is surprising, considering the fact that I have asked these questions of NO ONE, but have merely offered a perspective one could take in handling such questions when they do get asked. Do you think our Lord would be pleased with our attitude or our behavior if we were to get snarky or rude at somebody who asked us a personal question? We are supposed to be a peculiar people. We are supposed to stand out a bit from the depraved culture in which we find ourselves. So we would be delusional if we thought we would never get any questions about why we are different. As Christians, we are to be known by our love, not by our social etiquette or by our “rightness” in social situations.

 

[mommamaree]

WOW, I think you need to step back a minute, mommamaree!

I agree, to a point, with what I believe anglewannabe was trying to get across.

I have been married for over 20 years. I cannot tell you how many “well meaning” people asked me why I had no children, when I reply “God has not let it happen, yet! ” I usually get a “barrage” of questions like "well have you seen a fertility specialist? Are you actually trying?
And then it is usually just assumed that I am a selfish and contracepting feminist!

It can be very hurtful and offensive, and I also believe that questions such as these, while is some cases may be because someone is showing genuine concern, I highly doubt that it’s the norm. At least it never has been in my experience.

Good grief. I need to step back? Talk about rudeness factor.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I will give you the benefit of the doubt one more time.
Please explain.
How exactly am I being rude?
I am telling you what my actual experience has been.
I sorry if you don’t like it, but it is the truth, some people ask very personal questions like this because they are making judgements about another person’s lifestyle and it can be very hurtful.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

Perhaps it can be a little consideration on both sides of the question. Yes, sometimes it is just idle chit chat and people that get these kinds of questions shouldn’t always have an automatic knee jerk reaction to them. BUT, it would also go a long way if the person asking such questions would give a little more thought before they ask, that the person they are asking has suffered tremendously from infertility or multiple miscarriages, death of an infant, etc, etc. Its easy to say that someone should grow a thicker skin when you may not have had the burden of the cross to carry. All that some of us are asking is to have a bit more consideration before asking such questions, some of us may be in situations that aren’t apparent when it comes to the size of our families. I for one would feel absolutely horrible if I had thought I was only making chit chat but caused one of my friends more hurt and saddness because I couldn’t be bothered to be a little bit more considerate before I spoke.

That’s understandable. Answering the same exact questions again and again about a sensitive subject can get really tiresome. It kind of makes you want to make a FAQ business card to carry around.

 

[mommamaree]

I will give you the benefit of the doubt one more time.
Please explain.
How exactly am I being rude?
I am telling you what my actual experience has been.
I sorry if you don’t like it, but it is the truth, some people ask very personal questions like this because they are making judgements about another person’s lifestyle and it can be very hurtful.

Thank you for calmly asking for clarification.
The rudeness was in telling me to step back. I was not “getting in anyone’s face” so to speak. I was defending myself against an unfair attack where I was told I was being insensitive just because I answer people’s questions and try to help open their eyes to the whole beautiful world outside of the contraceptive mentality. The previous poster to whom I was responding when you told me to step back was blaming my attitude and actions for other people’s pain. It makes no sense. I have seen some transference going on here. I am not the cause of the pain. Infertility and people’s questions are. I merely suggested one way of handling the situation.
I have known a lot of the pain associated with fertility, pregnancy, miscarriage, etc
As an example of one rude question I have been asked, my own mother, when she found out my younger sister had gotten pregnant out of wedlock when she knew I had been trying to get pregnant, said to me “wouldn’t it be wonderful if you were infertile so you could just adopt your sister’s baby!?”. So, yeah, no matter our situation, we have all dealt with painful questions. But I think a good way to deal with them is to charitably give a kind or pleasant answer and just go on about our own business. Getting angry is just not healthy for us in the long run. It can make us bitter and unhappy.
If you go back and read my posts, I hope you will see that the point I was trying to make was NOT what was assumed by the other poster, nor by you initially. I am very sorry for couples who struggle with infertility. My suggestion on one way to deal with intrusive questions does not mock your pain. It was just a suggestion that has worked for me and my painful issues.

 

[ephesians4]

I think it is more rude to ask “Are you done having kids yet?” I have been asked both questions.

I agree, and occasionally it feels like there is a suggestion you should probably curtail your breeding, which is one of many insults that people throw at you with a grin with this kind of question.

I tend to tell people we may not stop before our twelfth if they ask that question now, which ends the conversation abruptly if they were not asking in good faith.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Thank you for the clarification.
I am sorry if I was rude, it was not my intention. I was just asking you to step back and really look at what was being communicated and how.
I cannot speak for anglewannabe, but I too, had a very similar inital reaction to your post she was replying to. What my experience has taught me was to not “read into” what is being said, and I do not believe that anglewannabe was calling you insensitive, rather the “advice” itself was insensitive, a “suck it up mentality” if you will, at least that’s how I read it, at first.
Which just shows you how wounded I really am regarding my childlessness.
When discussing such deeply personal issues, especially on an internet forum, I have learned, always assume the best and ask for clarification first. Intent is very difficult to read via the Internet, and not everyone communicates well with the written word.

Peace be with you on your journey!

Thank you for calmly asking for clarification.
The rudeness was in telling me to step back. I was not “getting in anyone’s face” so to speak. I was defending myself against an unfair attack where I was told I was being insensitive just because I answer people’s questions and try to help open their eyes to the whole beautiful world outside of the contraceptive mentality. The previous poster to whom I was responding when you told me to step back was blaming my attitude and actions for other people’s pain. It makes no sense. I have seen some transference going on here. I am not the cause of the pain. Infertility and people’s questions are. I merely suggested one way of handling the situation.
I have known a lot of the pain associated with fertility, pregnancy, miscarriage, etc
As an example of one rude question I have been asked, my own mother, when she found out my younger sister had gotten pregnant out of wedlock when she knew I had been trying to get pregnant, said to me “wouldn’t it be wonderful if you were infertile so you could just adopt your sister’s baby!?”. So, yeah, no matter our situation, we have all dealt with painful questions. But I think a good way to deal with them is to charitably give a kind or pleasant answer and just go on about our own business. Getting angry is just not healthy for us in the long run. It can make us bitter and unhappy.
If you go back and read my posts, I hope you will see that the point I was trying to make was NOT what was assumed by the other poster, nor by you initially. I am very sorry for couples who struggle with infertility. My suggestion on one way to deal with intrusive questions does not mock your pain. It was just a suggestion that has worked for me and my painful issues.

 

[Pug]

I think it is more rude to ask “Are you done having kids yet?” I have been asked both questions.

I’ve asked this one, but more like, “are you planning on more kids”? I’ve asked this one spontaneously while looking at my cousin’s beautiful children and hoping there would be more. (I don’t have any of my own, so I tend to enjoy other people’s children). I didn’t mean to be rude at the time, but perhaps I was.

I don’t like to be asked why I haven’t adopted, since I don’t have any good way to answer the question other than to say that no one would ever dream of letting us do so. I just throw it off with some mumble about how we’ve considered it. Fortunately age puts an end to these sorts of questions.

 

[Anglewannabe]

Nice. So because I try to be kind to others, now I am insensitive? I answer other people’s questions, so I am in the wrong? I didn’t tell anyone not to be offended. I encouraged others not to take offense. There is a difference. And talking about having children is NOT sharing intimate details of one’s sex life. It is true that sex begets babies, but it does not follow that asking about a baby means that a person wants to know what goes on in the bedroom.

Telling other’s not to be offended by personal questions is not kind. Please explain the difference between ‘not be offended’ and ‘not take offense’ because I really don’t see it. And no where did I say it was wrong for you to talk about YOUR business.

Talking about having babies is an indirect way to talk about sex even if it is at a general level

The lack of charity in your response to me is surprising,

I know what it is to bear a cross alone and have people’s questions make me feel even more alone. If a woman is going to post about the pain she feels because she is infertile and people keep asking and salt is being rubbed on her wounds, I will speak up for her and try and make society see there are some questions that are hurtful. I think that is very charitable to the infertile woman.

considering the fact that I have asked these questions of NO ONE, but have merely offered a perspective one could take in handling such questions when they do get asked.

Perhaps that is your intention. However, my opinion is the infertile woman is the one bearing the cross and she comes first. It is up the person who is asking the questions and not suffering to change their perspective

Do you think our Lord would be pleased with our attitude or our behavior if we were to get snarky or rude at somebody who asked us a personal question?

Jesus got mad in the temple and overturned the tables. I think the Lord would have a lot of mercy on the infertile woman who looses her cool after one too many questions.

We are supposed to be a peculiar people. We are supposed to stand out a bit from the depraved culture in which we find ourselves. So we would be delusional if we thought we would never get any questions about why we are different. As Christians, we are to be known by our love, not by our social etiquette or by our “rightness” in social situations.

Infertility has nothing to do with being different

Angie

 

[mommamaree]

Telling other’s not to be offended by personal questions is not kind. Please explain the difference between ‘not be offended’ and ‘not take offense’ because I really don’t see it. And no where did I say it was wrong for you to talk about YOUR business.

Talking about having babies is an indirect way to talk about sex even if it is at a general level

I know what it is to bear a cross alone and have people’s questions make me feel even more alone. If a woman is going to post about the pain she feels because she is infertile and people keep asking and salt is being rubbed on her wounds, I will speak up for her and try and make society see there are some questions that are hurtful. I think that is very charitable to the infertile woman.

Perhaps that is your intention. However, my opinion is the infertile woman is the one bearing the cross and she comes first. It is up the person who is asking the questions and not suffering to change their perspective

Jesus got mad in the temple and overturned the tables. I think the Lord would have a lot of mercy on the infertile woman who looses her cool after one too many questions.

Infertility has nothing to do with being different

Angie

It is how one handles the infertility that is different. Do you see how remarkable these women are? Faithful Catholic women who struggle with the pain of infertility without adopting a mentality of “a baby at any cost”, they are beautiful lights of truth and beauty in a world that by and large view babies as commodities to be produced, bought and sold, or discarded according to the whims of the parents.
The reality is, ANY faithful Christian who follows the Church teaching on marriage and procreation is just such a light. Are we to hide that light under a bushel? No. We are to let that light shine in this dark world. I suggested one way of doing that. I never said it is what one must do. I simply said what has worked for me. I never told anyone not to get offended. I said I think it is good to not take offense where none (usually) is meant. And even if offense is meant, that is the offender’s problem, and not our own. We don’t need to take the insult to heart. This is not about sucking it up. It is about recognizing the goodness of what you are already doing, and giving your pain and sadness to Jesus. He knows all about scorn, judgement, sorrow, grief, agony. He doesn’t want us to return insult for insult, because that only increases our pain and others. He wants us to charitably assume the best in others and unite our suffering with His. I was giving concrete examples in my earlier posts about how I have acted on those instructions from our Lord, and how I was pleasantly surprised by how people’s attitudes change dramatically in the course of the conversation that opens up. People long to hear good news. We have The Good News. I think it is great when we share it.

 

[Anglewannabe]

It is how one handles the infertility that is different. Do you see how remarkable these women are? Faithful Catholic women who struggle with the pain of infertility without adopting a mentality of “a baby at any cost”, they are beautiful lights of truth and beauty in a world that by and large view babies as commodities to be produced, bought and sold, or discarded according to the whims of the parents.

Yes I see how these women are the true light

The reality is, ANY faithful Christian who follows the Church teaching on marriage and procreation is just such a light. Are we to hide that light under a bushel? No. We are to let that light shine in this dark world.

I think there are ways for infertile woman to let the light of God shine through them without talking about why they don’t have kids

I suggested one way of doing that. I never said it is what one must do. I simply said what has worked for me.

I think it is awesome you found a solution that works for you

I never told anyone not to get offended. I said I think it is good to not take offense where none (usually) is meant. And even if offense is meant, that is the offender’s problem, and not our own.

It would be GREAT if no offense is taken. But I also think that at times, that is a big task to ask of someone

We don’t need to take the insult to heart. This is not about sucking it up. It is about recognizing the goodness of what you are already doing, and giving your pain and sadness to Jesus. He knows all about scorn, judgement, sorrow, grief, agony. He doesn’t want us to return insult for insult, because that only increases our pain and others. He wants us to charitably assume the best in others and unite our suffering with His. I was giving concrete examples in my earlier posts about how I have acted on those instructions from our Lord, and how I was pleasantly surprised by how people’s attitudes change dramatically in the course of the conversation that opens up. People long to hear good news. We have The Good News. I think it is great when we share it.

Yes I believe that uniting our sufferings to Jesus does ease the pain. However, I think I would like to agree to disagree here. I totally believe you had a positive experience by opening up. However, I also think you are the minority and people need to be careful who they choose to trust. Perhaps the way God has called you to touch people is through talking about your infertility. I am not going to contradict that.

I guess I have SO often been the butt of people’s purposeful insensitive questions and have only had the experience that opening up creates more pain, I get defensive when someone’s boundary to not talk about it is challenged. Even if that was not the intent

 

[mommamaree]

Thank you for the clarification.
I am sorry if I was rude, it was not my intention. I was just asking you to step back and really look at what was being communicated and how.
I cannot speak for anglewannabe, but I too, had a very similar inital reaction to your post she was replying to. What my experience has taught me was to not “read into” what is being said, and I do not believe that anglewannabe was calling you insensitive, rather the “advice” itself was insensitive, a “suck it up mentality” if you will, at least that’s how I read it, at first.
Which just shows you how wounded I really am regarding my childlessness.
When discussing such deeply personal issues, especially on an internet forum, I have learned, always assume the best and ask for clarification first. Intent is very difficult to read via the Internet, and not everyone communicates well with the written word.

Peace be with you on your journey!

I missed your response until just now.
I went back and read a few of the details you shared earlier in the thread, and I do see how much of a burden you have been bearing. I am so so sorry for that. And it makes sense why what I was saying did not make sense, at least without clarification.
A wise saying that keeps echoing in my mind a lot lately is “hurting people hurt people”
In our world today, reproductive and sexuality issues is a third rail topic. We are all the walking wounded, and we all feel so raw. I truly have found that just dropping my armor entirely has helped me, personally, to begin to heal and have a saner perspective in this cruel world. It is what has worked for me, so that is the only reason I mentioned it here. I have found that a simple, short, pleasant answer causes other women to want to confide in me and seek solace. If I can be a shoulder to cry on, then I rejoice in the Lord. If I am asked to celebrate with them, I do that joyfully, too. But when others have asked me that question, invariably, I discover they are really asking because of their own pain. It may seem like they want to judge me at first, but then it quickly becomes apparent that they are struggling with self-recrimination and self-doubt. And they just need a safe place to open up. Thank God! I just hope others can experience the joy of such connections. I have had wonderful conversations with complete strangers just because of my response to such questions. And I am naturally very shy by nature. I do not ask personal questions, nor do I put myself out there. But I have chosen to remain open in this aspect of my life, and I hope it leads to many more connections with people.

 

[mommamaree]

Yes I see how these women are the true light

I think there are ways for infertile woman to let the light of God shine through them without talking about why they don’t have kids

I think it is awesome you found a solution that works for you

It would be GREAT if no offense is taken. But I also think that at times, that is a big task to ask of someone

Yes I believe that uniting our sufferings to Jesus does ease the pain. However, I think I would like to agree to disagree here. I totally believe you had a positive experience by opening up. However, I also think you are the minority and people need to be careful who they choose to trust. Perhaps the way God has called you to touch people is through talking about your infertility. I am not going to contradict that.

I guess I have SO often been the butt of people’s purposeful insensitive questions and have only had the experience that opening up creates more pain, I get defensive when someone’s boundary to not talk about it is challenged. Even if that was not the intent

Thank you for taking another look at what I was attempting to say. I looked back at your posts in the other thread and saw what you shared about your experiences there. My SIL has gone through some similar challenges recently and has struggled with the same feelings you mentioned. I want to be clear, though, lest we continue in misunderstanding each other. I have the opposite of infertility. I have had many pregnancies now, after some initial waiting for my first pregnancy. I have lost some babies, but have been blessed with three, soon to be four healthy babies. The condemnation and judgement I get now is from non-Catholics, for having too many kids. But then when they see my happiness with my growing family, they change their tune a bit. But I don’t need to go into that further.
What does trouble me is how much pain you have been carrying for something that is out of your control. People are going to be rude and unkind. Sometimes it is sheer thoughtlessness, rather than malice. Please don’t let their unkindness to become a burden you carry for them. It is acceptable to acknowledge the rudeness, and yet you do not have to accept what they say to you as the truth. Like telling yourself “wow, that stung and was really rude, but it is not true, so I am not going to internalize that message.”. I will pray for you, especially since as you work through your trials and overcome your obstacles, you do NOT need to be reminded of past struggles. God bless.