Ruling in Italy about Crosses displaying in classrooms

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ROME: Italian Catholics have reacted with uproar over a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights that says the crucifixes hanging in most Italian classrooms are a violation of religious and educational freedoms.

The seven judges, whose decision could prompt a Europe-wide review of the use of religious symbols on public premises, said state schools had to ‘‘observe confessional neutrality’’.

smh.com.au/world/too-much-cross-to-bear-for-italian-schools-20091104-hy0u.html
 
dolphinlove said:
ROME: Italian Catholics have reacted with uproar over a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights that says the crucifixes hanging in most Italian classrooms are a violation of religious and educational freedoms.

The seven judges, whose decision could prompt a Europe-wide review of the use of religious symbols on public premises, said state schools had to ‘‘observe confessional neutrality’’.

smh.com.au/world/too-much-cross-to-bear-for-italian-schools-20091104-hy0u.html
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Does anyone else see the irony in a court ruling that wants to defend freedom by telling people what they can and can’t put up in their classrooms? 🤷
 
dolphinlove said:
ROME: Italian Catholics have reacted with uproar over a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights that says the crucifixes hanging in most Italian classrooms are a violation of religious and educational freedoms.

The seven judges, whose decision could prompt a Europe-wide review of the use of religious symbols on public premises, said state schools had to ‘‘observe confessional neutrality’’.

smh.com.au/world/too-much-cross-to-bear-for-italian-schools-20091104-hy0u.html
Click to expand...
Why is the European Court of Human rights involved in such a matter? I mean is this really a human rights issue? What a bunch of idiots!!!
 
josie_L said:
Why is the European Court of Human rights involved in such a matter?
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Because the petitioner, having found no remedy in the Italian Courts and Italy being one of the signatories of the European Convention on Human Rights, appealed to the ECHR.
I mean is this really a human rights issue?
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Last time I looked at an online Poll on the subject (the largest Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera), the voting was (predictably) evenly split on whether it was or not.
What a bunch of idiots!!!
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Or not, depends on one’s point of view.
 
Yellow_Belle said:
Because somebody brought a case. Do you think the Court just wanders around looking for things to rule on?
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This is not a human rights issue that was my point. They should not be wasting their precious time dealing with this person.
 
josie_L said:
This is not a human rights issue that was my point. They should not be wasting their precious time dealing with this person.
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You may not regard it as a human rights issue, that doesn’t mean that others don’t see it as a human rights issue.
 
They may or may not be idiots. This is not enough proof. What worries me, and a lot of other people based on American courts and schools, is that any Christian reference will be removed but then other faiths will be required.

I am all for a fair system. Teach everything equally or teach none of it. Or, be a private school and teach what you will
 
ralphinal said:
They may or may not be idiots. This is not enough proof. What worries me, and a lot of other people based on American courts and schools, is that any Christian reference will be removed but then other faiths will be required.

I am all for a fair system. Teach everything equally or teach none of it. Or, be a private school and teach what you will
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I think Americans should worry about America and Europeans worry about Europe. This has the great advantage of reducing misunderstanding of how things work!
 
Kaninchen said:
Because the petitioner, having found no remedy in the Italian Courts and Italy being one of the signatories of the European Convention on Human Rights, appealed to the ECHR.
Click to expand...
This is not a human rights issue.
Last time I looked at an online Poll on the subject (the largest Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera), the voting was (predictably) evenly split on whether it was or not.
Click to expand...
This is not a human rights issue.
Or not, depends on one’s point of view.
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This is not a human rights issue, and that the ECHR even considered this case worthy of their attention says a lot about their stance on human rights. This is frivolous.
 
josie_L said:
This is not a human rights issue that was my point. They should not be wasting their precious time dealing with this person.
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The European Convention on Human Rights apparently disagrees with you on what constitutes a human right. The petitioner had already been through the Italian courts and found no remedy. She took the case to the European Court of Human Rights and the Court took the case because Italy is a signatory of the Convention on Human Rights.

I think there are now 4 threads on this topic on CAF: is this a record?
 
josie_L said:
This is not a human rights issue, and that the ECHR even considered this case worthy of their attention says a lot about their stance on human rights. This is frivolous.
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It’s frivolous from your point of view, from mine it’s not frivolous at all. I certainly wouldn’t have wanted my daughters sitting in a classroom with a crucifix hanging over them.
 
Kaninchen said:
I think Americans should worry about America and Europeans worry about Europe. This has the great advantage of reducing misunderstanding of how things work!
Click to expand...
The problem with that comes with that big building on New York’s east side called the UN. Treaties formed in the UN, even if we do not agree with them, can effect us. Some of these treaties are being based on well-meaning but short sighted (I hope) Europeans. Further, there are Americans here who think that everything in Europe is perfect and we need to grow up to be just like you. 🤷
 
Kaninchen said:
You may not regard it as a human rights issue, that doesn’t mean that others don’t see it as a human rights issue.
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So because one woman says this “violates” her human rights (even though it’s a symbol not a subjection) we must do away with all crucifixes in Italian schools (not just that one school).

p.s. I reiterate the ECHR are idiots to waste their time on this.
 
ralphinal said:
The problem with that comes with that big building on New York’s east side called the UN. Treaties formed in the UN, even if we do not agree with them, can effect us. Some of these treaties are being based on well-meaning but short sighted (I hope) Europeans. Further, there are Americans here who think that everything in Europe is perfect and we need to grow up to be just like you. 🤷
Click to expand...
The European Convention on Human Rights is nearly 60 years old and was a tremendous statement coming as it did at a time after the fall of Nazism/Fascism and in the face of a serious communist threat. It has nothing to do with the UN, nor has it anything to do with the EU, by the way.

The thing is that most comments on CAF, when talking of Europe, reflect a need on the part of many posters to impose American agendas and American obsessions onto Europe. We have agendas and obsessions enough of our own.
 
Kaninchen said:
It’s frivolous from your point of view, from mine it’s not frivolous at all. I certainly wouldn’t have wanted my daughters sitting in a classroom with a crucifix hanging over them.
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Why do you think it’s going to fall on their head? :rolleyes:
 
josie_L said:
So because one woman says this “violates” her human rights (even though it’s a symbol not a subjection) we must do away with all crucifixes in Italian schools (not just that one school).

p.s. I reiterate the ECHR are idiots to waste their time on this.
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No, just in Italian state schools. Do they allow crucifixes in state schools in the US?
 
josie_L said:
So because one woman says this “violates” her human rights (even though it’s a symbol not a subjection) we must do away with all crucifixes in Italian schools (not just that one school).
Click to expand...
To get to the ECHR takes some doing, she will have been the ‘name’ on what was a ‘class action’.
p.s. I reiterate the ECHR are idiots to waste their time on this.
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Or not.
 
Kaninchen said:
The European Convention on Human Rights is nearly 60 years old and was a tremendous statement coming as it did at a time after the fall of Nazism/Fascism and in the face of a serious communist threat. It has nothing to do with the UN, nor has it anything to do with the EU, by the way.

The thing is that most comments on CAF, when talking of Europe, reflect a need on the part of many posters to impose American agendas and American obsessions onto Europe. We have agendas and obsessions enough of our own.
Click to expand...
Oh, I know about that. Two European agendas drew us into two World Wars and a third landed us in Veit Nam
 
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