Ruling in Italy about Crosses displaying in classrooms

[josie_L]

I’m half German-Jewish and half Italian-Jewish, enough with the crucifixes!

Do you think the actions undertaken by the dissenters will pave the way for peace? If you answer yes, please tell me why? As for myself I believe that this resolution will result in creating tension between people which ironically will exacerbate intolerance rather than bring about an atmosphere of acceptance. Nothing will come out this resolution except more negativity.

p.s. It’s a pity really that Italy cannot have a symbol such as the crucifix which represents her heritage (not a means by which to proselytize) is viewed as something “evil” and/or a violation of someone’s human rights.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

It all started after some muslim and jewish parents complained,and it was right…Italy is a secular country,crosses are no problem in churches and private homes but in schools…no thanks

 

[bosnian_muslim]

p.s. It’s a pity really that Italy cannot have a symbol such as the crucifix which represents her heritage (not a means by which to proselytize) is viewed as something “evil” and/or a violation of someone’s human rights.

i dont see the crucifix as an italian symbol of heritage,Italy is a country with rich culture,its culture doesnt start with the christianization!!! many italians also think that the crosses have nothing to do in schools

 

[bosnian_muslim]

you would have to be pretty stupid to say no to crosses in secular schools and then support religious symbols of other religions

 

[Kaninchen]

i dont see the crucifix as an italian symbol of heritage,Italy is a country with rich culture,its culture doesnt start with the christianization!!! many italians also think that the crosses have nothing to do in schools

You would really think, to read what’s being said that, Italy was bereft of Christian symbolism, wouldn’t you, rather than making billions and billions of dollars, euros, yen etc out of the ‘living museum’ aspect of its towns, cities and villages?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

ROME: Italian Catholics have reacted with uproar over a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights that says the crucifixes hanging in most Italian classrooms are a violation of religious and educational freedoms.

The seven judges, whose decision could prompt a Europe-wide review of the use of religious symbols on public premises, said state schools had to ‘‘observe confessional neutrality’’.

smh.com.au/world/too-much-cross-to-bear-for-italian-schools-20091104-hy0u.html

I wonder if a Christian can go to a Muslim country and protest a Muslim sign be removed from any public building or school? I wonder if a Christian who works at or attends a Jewish public school or work place and protest any Jewish symbol displayed? How far do you think the Christian protesting any of these religious identities get, in having them removed by a Muslim or Jewish court?

Freedom, Tolerance and Love must be redifined to their original meaning. The people of the world today have totally displaced the true meaning of Love, understanding, Freedom and Tolerance today. To take away ones identity of a majority for a minority complaint is not excercising Peace, Love or tolerance but pits a view to anothers causing friction and violence.

The rights of the majority are being abused by the evil disguise of thinking one is protecting the rights of the minority, when the secular powers are blindly being used to invoke the minority view to overcome the majority. This is not freedom being excercised this is extortion from the highest levels from the law of the land.

I pray Italy does not fall victim to this satanic twisting of laws believing evil is good, and that her taxpayers who built these public institutions for her people do not lose their indentity to an evil that is disguised to over take her silently by her secular powers who are subject to the evil one. This is a great opportunity for the Church to speak her peace for all Christians and settle this matter between the citizens who built their country based on their Christian identity so that outsiders can be welcome to see and learn of who they are, not protest or become offended by something they have no understanding or indentity of. Again the world has dug herself into a pit thinking secular powers can give justice and peace, when only God our savior is the only one who can administer true Justice and peace. All Ceasars of the World today are failing greatly at adminstering true Justice. This is the great fight against powers and principalities.

Lets us not hide or try to cover up this evil that is moving in Europe, and is already making headway in the U.S, where we have legalized abortion by tax dollars, Marriage of same sex couples in some states, prayer removed from schools etc. And let us expose it for what it is an avenue used by evil to exploit or remove Christianity from public view, when Christians are called to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ from the roof tops, not hide him under a bushel basket. The secular powers who deny Jesus will always be at war, those who acknowledge Jesus Christ will always live in justice and peace.

Peace be with you

 

[josie_L]

It all started after some muslim and jewish parents complained,and it was right…Italy is a secular country,crosses are no problem in churches and private homes but in schools…no thanks

Do you think the actions undertaken by the dissenters will pave the way for peace? If you answer yes, please tell me why?

Note: Italy is a secular country with a Christian heritage.

 

[josie_L]

i dont see the crucifix as an italian symbol of heritage,Italy is a country with rich culture,its culture doesnt start with the christianization!!! many italians also think that the crosses have nothing to do in schools

You’ve got to be kidding me right? I mean the heart of Christianity is in Italy and yet Christianity has nothing to do with the heritage and culture of Italy?

 

[josie_L]

** Italian Catholics have reacted with uproar over a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights that says the crucifixes hanging in most Italian classrooms are a violation of religious and educational freedoms.**

The seven judges, whose decision could prompt a Europe-wide review of the use of religious symbols on public premises, said state schools had to ‘‘observe confessional neutrality’’.

Apart from the far left, Italian politicians condemned the ruling. Silvio Berlusconi’s Education Minister, Mariastella Gelmini, said: ‘‘No one, not even some ideologically motivated European court, will succeed in rubbing out our identity.’’

The Vatican asked for time to evaluate the decision, but a spokesman for Italy’s bishops condemned it as ‘‘partisan and ideological’’.

The ruling marked the end of an eight-year battle by a Finnish-born mother, Soile Lautsi. She took her cause to court after failing to get crucifixes removed from the school at which her two children were being taught at a town in north-east Italy.

Ms Lautsi appealed to Strasbourg three years ago when her case was thrown out by Italy’s constitutional court.

Although more than 7 per cent of Italy’s population is of immigrant origin, multiculturalism has made few inroads and most Italians argue passionately, as did their Government’s advocate in Strasbourg, that the crucifix is a symbol of national identity.

The court disagreed. ‘‘The presence of the crucifix **could **… be disturbing for pupils who practised other religions or were atheists, particularly if they belonged to religious minorities,’’ it ruled, ordering the Italian state to pay Ms Lautsi, an Italian citizen, €5000 ($8200) in damages.

One government minister, Roberto Calderoli, of the Northern League, said: '‘The European court has trodden on our rights, our culture, our history, our traditions and our values.’'

Claudio Scajola, a member of Mr Berlusconi’s The Freedom of People party, said: '‘The crucifix is a universal symbol of love, meekness and peace. Preventing it from being displayed is an act of violence against the deep-seated feelings of the Italian people and all persons of goodwill.’'

The Government’s lawyer said he would seek an appeal in the Strasbourg court’s 17-member grand chamber.

If his petition is rejected, or if an appeal is thrown out, Italy would be obliged to comply. Refusal to do so would result in the issue being referred to the Council of Europe.

smh.com.au/world/too-much-cross-to-bear-for-italian-schools-20091104-hy0u.html

 

[jakasaki]

This whole issue of “offending others” is out of control.

Hey, why stop at the Crucifix because it’s a religious symbol.

Let’s extend this “offending others”, shall we.

We can start with the muslim women who wear their burka, hijab, niqab… etc… and they wear it because of their religion and it’s a religious symbol of who they are. Let’s ban that because it’s “offensive to others”.

Oh wait… there’s a Jew over there with a beany cap & his little side curls all dressed up in a suit in 90 degree heat… oh gee, that’s “offensive” because it’s a religious symbol of who is he.

What’s this I see, a Church with a cross on it. Let’s get rid of that.

A Synagogue is in my view. It’s offensive because it is a religious place and it’s “offensive to others” because there is a Star of David, … a religious symbol.

And what’s down the road, a mosque with a minaret and some guy blasting his voice in Arabic because it’s his religious belief that he must do … oh heck… he is “offending others” by his screeching load annoying voice and I must see this religious symbol.

Oh wait… here come some nuns and priests & monks.

Let’s ban then from the streets because they are wearing there religious symbols for all to see and it’s “offensive”.

Oh lookie there, it’s afternoon and the muslims are doing their asr prayer in the street. Well, heck… that’s “offensive to others”… How dare they display their religious belief out on the street and I must see it. The nerve!

This MADNESS of “offending others” must stop for the sake of mankind.

 

[josie_L]

This whole issue of “offending others” is out of control.

Hey, why stop at the Crucifix because it’s a religious symbol.

Let’s extend this “offending others”, shall we.

We can start with the muslim women who wear their burka, hijab, niqab… etc… and they wear it because of their religion and it’s a religious symbol of who they are. Let’s ban that because it’s “offensive to others”.

Oh wait… there’s a Jew over there with a beany cap & his little side curls all dressed up in a suit in 90 degree heat… oh gee, that’s “offensive” because it’s a religious symbol of who is he.

What’s this I see, a Church with a cross on it. Let’s get rid of that.

A Synagogue is in my view. It’s offensive because it is a religious place and it’s “offensive to others” because there is a Star of David, … a religious symbol.

And what’s down the road, a mosque with a minaret and some guy blasting his voice in Arabic because it’s his religious belief that he must do … oh heck… he is “offending others” by his screeching load annoying voice and I must see this religious symbol.

Oh wait… here come some nuns and priests & monks.

Let’s ban then from the streets because they are wearing there religious symbols for all to see and it’s “offensive”.

Oh lookie there, it’s afternoon and the muslims are doing their asr prayer in the street. Well, heck… that’s “offensive to others”… How dare they display their religious belief out on the street and I must see it. The nerve!

This MADNESS of “offending others” must stop for the sake of mankind.

I was read this article or opinion piece by Ben Stein, I loved it, here it goes:

Next confession: I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don’t feel threatened. I don’t feel discriminated against. That’s what they are: Christmas trees. It doesn’t bother me a bit when people say, “Merry Christmas” to me. I don’t think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn’t bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a creche, it’s just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don’t like getting pushed around for being a Jew and I don’t think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can’t find it in the Constitution and I don’t like it being shoved down my throat.

benstein.com/121805xmas.html

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

This whole issue of “offending others” is out of control.

Hey, why stop at the Crucifix because it’s a religious symbol.

Let’s extend this “offending others”, shall we.

We can start with the muslim women who wear their burka, hijab, niqab… etc… and they wear it because of their religion and it’s a religious symbol of who they are. Let’s ban that because it’s “offensive to others”.

Oh wait… there’s a Jew over there with a beany cap & his little side curls all dressed up in a suit in 90 degree heat… oh gee, that’s “offensive” because it’s a religious symbol of who is he.

What’s this I see, a Church with a cross on it. Let’s get rid of that.

A Synagogue is in my view. It’s offensive because it is a religious place and it’s “offensive to others” because there is a Star of David, … a religious symbol.

And what’s down the road, a mosque with a minaret and some guy blasting his voice in Arabic because it’s his religious belief that he must do … oh heck… he is “offending others” by his screeching load annoying voice and I must see this religious symbol.

Oh wait… here come some nuns and priests & monks.

Let’s ban then from the streets because they are wearing there religious symbols for all to see and it’s “offensive”.

Oh lookie there, it’s afternoon and the muslims are doing their asr prayer in the street. Well, heck… that’s “offensive to others”… How dare they display their religious belief out on the street and I must see it. The nerve!

This MADNESS of “offending others” must stop for the sake of mankind.

I think your argument should be introduced into Italy’s court room about this case. I wonder if a counter law suit could be brought against the plaintiff for the offense against my religion? The more this evil is exposed as you have introduced here very well, the more the secular powers will discover how ridiculous they look in pretending to adminster justice, when actually they are causing division feeding the powers and principalities of evil.

 

[ralphinal]

You could argue that since it was Romans that put him up there, it is part of the history of Italy and has a place in history rooms

 

[josie_L]

I think your argument should be introduced into Italy’s court room about this case. I wonder if a counter law suit could be brought against the plaintiff for the offense against my religion? The more this evil is exposed as you have introduced here very well, the more the secular powers will discover** how ridiculous they look in pretending to adminster justice, when actually they are causing division** feeding the powers and principalities of evil.

 

[josie_L]

You could argue that since it was Romans that put him up there, it is part of the history of Italy and has a place in history rooms

Raphinal that’s a great idea.

 

[ralphinal]

Raphinal that’s a great idea.

I love throwing that at my italian mother.

 

[josie_L]

I love throwing that at my italian mother.

I’m of Italian heritage too (I come from a long line of Italians on both my mom and my dad’s side). My dad and mom were born in Italy.

 

[ralphinal]

I’m of Italian heritage too (I come from a long line of Italians on both my mom and my dad’s side who were both born in Italy).

I should say that I am of Sicilian heritage, lest I insult the Italians.

 

[josie_L]

I should say that I am of Sicilian heritage, lest I insult the Italians.

My mother’s Sicilian as well.

 

[GKC]

If a country cedes any of its national sovereignty to any extra-national entity, by treaty or other means, it should not be surprised if said entity takes actions that limit that country’s national sovereignty.

I do wish that this country and passed and ratified the Bricker Amendment, back 50+ years ago.

GKC