Russia will be converted?

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bear06:
The Pope tried the consecration once. He went to Lucia and asked if it was acceptable. She said “no”. He did it again, asked her and she said “yes”. She had reiterated “yes” again after that. You can only say that it’s not consecrated by using conspiracy theories with no proof to back them up. I agree. You are confused. Please see Like’s links.
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You saying that the Pope did not even understand how to do it right? ah come on… He is a LOT smarter than that.

As for the link… the “consecration” does not even use the word Russia or any derivative. :hmmm:
 
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MrS:
not true… and you have no proof… unless you want to count some guy’s “interpretation” of what Sr typed. Yes typed… the only time in her life she did not hand write her words - all of which deny the proper consecration.

In the meantime, I will extend the courtesy of reviewing your links.
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Where is your proof that it was some guys interpretation? Like I said, see the links above. Where do you even have proof that it was even typed? I’ve always seen the word “purportedly”. Purported by who? If it was typed, where is the proof the Sr. Lucia didn’t sign it and even type it herself?

Let’s go back to the typed thing. As far as I know the letter hasn’t been seen. The only reason I have this in my head is that so many people base their argument on this. I once had a friend who believed that the consecration had not occured and how the letter had been word processed and his good priest friend said, “What proof do you have of that?” That made my friend stop and pause. I don’t think to this day he’s been able to prove that it was word processed. The only sites I’ve been able to find it on are sites that don’t believe Russia was consecrated and they all use the words “purportedly typed”.
 
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trth_skr:
I have taken a look. All this and more is covered in my link above (repeated below). Have you or Like looked at that link?

Fatima: Consecration or Cover-Up?

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
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I’ve looked at it and many times before. So, you take this over the Vatican, correct? Why, tell me, wouldn’t the Pope want to do the consecration? Why would he bother to check with Sr. Lucia? And why would the Vatican lie about it? Oh yes, Bertone must be a mason. That’s the only way to explain it. 😉
 
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bear06:
Where is your proof that it was some guys interpretation? Like I said, see the links above. Where do you even have proof that it was even typed? I’ve always seen the word “purportedly”. Purported by who? If it was typed, where is the proof the Sr. Lucia didn’t sign it and even type it herself?

Let’s go back to the typed thing. As far as I know the letter hasn’t been seen. The only reason I have this in my head is that so many people base their argument on this. I once had a friend who believed that the consecration had not occured and how the letter had been word processed and his good priest friend said, “What proof do you have of that?” That made my friend stop and pause. I don’t think to this day he’s been able to prove that it was word processed. The only sites I’ve been able to find it on are sites that don’t believe Russia was consecrated and they all use the words “purportedly typed”.
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you said it, not me…
 
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bear06:
I’ve looked at it and many times before. So, you take this over the Vatican, correct? Why, tell me, wouldn’t the Pope want to do the consecration? Why would he bother to check with Sr. Lucia? And why would the Vatican lie about it? Oh yes, Bertone must be a mason. That’s the only way to explain it. 😉
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First, here is waht JPII said on the 20th anniversary of the 1984 consecration:

catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/mary/fatima-coverup1.htm

“Twenty years have gone by since that day when, in spiritual union with all the bishops of the world, I entrusted all of mankind to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, in response to Our Lady’s plea in Fatima.”

So, yes he did respond, but did he fulfill her request to consecrate Russia? I cannot think so. He consecrated the world.

Why would the Vatican continually urge him NOT to mention Russia by name? Why would the bishops of the world refuse to support hiom in such a consecration?

Why would Sr. Lucia write this earth shattering information to some guy nakmed Walter Noelker, but not her bishop or the pope?

I do not have answers to all the questions. I do know that “world” is not the same as “Russia”, though.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
 
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bear06:
I’ve looked at it and many times before. So, you take this over the Vatican, correct? Why, tell me, wouldn’t the Pope want to do the consecration? Why would he bother to check with Sr. Lucia? And why would the Vatican lie about it? Oh yes, Bertone must be a mason. That’s the only way to explain it. 😉
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So you believe everything the Vatican tells you? Is the Vatican incapable of lying. Nothing makes them special, they are human like you and me. The Church cannot err in matters of faith and morals. Thats it. Anything else and they have the ability to lie, cheat, and steal just like anybody else.
 
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Andrew_11:
So you believe everything the Vatican tells you? Is the Vatican incapable of lying. Nothing makes them special, they are human like you and me. The Church cannot err in matters of faith and morals. Thats it. Anything else and they have the ability to lie, cheat, and steal just like anybody else.
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Uh, so you believe everything Sugenis says over the Vatican?!?!
 
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trth_skr:
First, here is waht JPII said on the 20th anniversary of the 1984 consecration:

catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/mary/fatima-coverup1.htm

“Twenty years have gone by since that day when, in spiritual union with all the bishops of the world, I entrusted all of mankind to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, in response to Our Lady’s plea in Fatima.”

So, yes he did respond, but did he fulfill her request to consecrate Russia? I cannot think so. He consecrated the world.

Why would the Vatican continually urge him NOT to mention Russia by name? Why would the bishops of the world refuse to support hiom in such a consecration?

Why would Sr. Lucia write this earth shattering information to some guy nakmed Walter Noelker, but not her bishop or the pope?

I do not have answers to all the questions. I do know that “world” is not the same as “Russia”, though.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
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Geez. This is right out of the Angelus isn’t it?

So I’m guessing you think the same clan lied about the Third Secret too?
 
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bear06:
Geez. This is right out of the Angelus isn’t it?

So I’m guessing you think the same clan lied about the Third Secret too?
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There is much less certainty about the third secret.

In the case of the consecration of Russia, it is clear that consecrating the world is not consecrating Russia.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
 
Russia was consecrated alright - or the Berlin wall would still be there today - end of debate.
 
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bear06:
Uh, so you believe everything Sugenis says over the Vatican?!?!
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No, but I dont believe the Vatican is telling us everything, either that or they are covering somthing up. Sugenis offers proof for his theories, I dont see the Vatican’s website offer proof to contradict Sugenis’ claims.
 
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trth_skr:
And what exactly did the falling of the wall accomplish in terms of repentance and conversions? Nothing.

Debate not interrupted.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
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So you think this would be an on the spot, Russia is now Catholic, conversion? There are many good things happening in Russia in regards to the Catholic Church. For one thing, Mother Teresa and her nuns weren’t allowed in Russia for many years. She and her nuns went there in 1988. Mother Teresa was actually honored by Russia in 1992. Some Churches that were taken have been returned. Is it fully converted? Not by a long shot. Is it perfect? Not even close but it’s far better than it was.
 
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Andrew_11:
No, but I dont believe the Vatican is telling us everything, either that or they are covering somthing up. Sugenis offers proof for his theories, I dont see the Vatican’s website offer proof to contradict Sugenis’ claims.
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The question is why don’t you believe the Vatican? What is the proof that they are lying? What is the cover up? Which Sugenis’ claims are you speaking of? Wouldn’t the burden of proof be his? He has said the letter from Sr. Lucia is typed. I think it’s funny that people think Sugenis is such a laudable person that the Vatican must answer to him and that we should believe him, Fr. Gruner, et. al. over the Vatican. Does the Vatican have some track record of lying to the faithful that I don’t know about?
 
That is why I could care less about Fatima…it is private revelation and I have no obligation to care. I have always found there to be something slightly off about people who put too much faith into private revelations and the end-of-the-world hysteria.

Robert Sungenis’ article is amazingly circular: Russia is still bad so the consecration mustn’t have worked. Better try again, and again, and again. Yes, we can fix all the world’s problems by consecrating Russia. Is it cause or effect?

Maybe the popes have not wanted to do a full unquestionalbe consecration because when they do, and nothing changes in Russia, Fatima will be shown to be a myth and many ignorant and superstitutious Catholics will have their faith scandalized.
 
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bear06:
The question is why don’t you believe the Vatican? What is the proof that they are lying? What is the cover up? Which Sugenis’ claims are you speaking of? Wouldn’t the burden of proof be his? He has said the letter from Sr. Lucia is typed. I think it’s funny that people think Sugenis is such a laudable person that the Vatican must answer to him and that we should believe him, Fr. Gruner, et. al. over the Vatican. Does the Vatican have some track record of lying to the faithful that I don’t know about?
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First of all, concecrating the word to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, is not concecrating Russian to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. And the Vatican’s interpretation on the third mystery deosnt really seem to have much to do with the assasination attempt. Read the mystery, it sounds like somthing alot bigger than a failed assasination plot. Prior to its release, the third mystery was generally regarded as being the worse. I would consider two world wars worse than an unsuccessful assasination attempt. I find it hard to believe that JPII would intentionally mislead us. ButI do not believe Russia was concecrated, and I do not believe the official interpretation of the third mystery is accurate.
 
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