Russian Jet Buzzes AF Intel Plane

[pepipop]

It can’t be considered a coup d’etat if the president fled the country. Which he did. Back to - Russia of course.

Follow the clues, Pepipop!

I sure do, Tomarin.

The big clue being ‘Why did he flee’? - because he was ousted by the parliament

bbc.com/news/world-europe-26304842

Where else is he going to go? Ukraine didn’t want him and as he was born in Eastern Ukraine and is pro-Russian, off he went to Russia. No biggee.

Also, maybe he didn’t want to become yet another *‘suicide’ *victim.

theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/23/ukraine-party-of-regions-members-apparent-suicides-viktor-yanukovych

Ukraine’s former ruling party hit by spate of apparent suicides
Four members of Viktor Yanukovych’s Party of Regions have died within weeks as investigations into old regime officials mount up

 

[tomarin]

I sure do, Tomarin.

The big clue being ‘Why did he flee’? - because he was ousted by the parliament

bbc.com/news/world-europe-26304842

Where else is he going to go? Ukraine didn’t want him and as he was born in Eastern Ukraine and is pro-Russian, off he went to Russia. No biggee.

Also, maybe he didn’t want to become yet another *‘suicide’ *victim.

theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/23/ukraine-party-of-regions-members-apparent-suicides-viktor-yanukovych

Ukraine’s former ruling party hit by spate of apparent suicides
Four members of Viktor Yanukovych’s Party of Regions have died within weeks as investigations into old regime officials mount up

I would think the honorable thing would be to stay and account for your actions - though he may also have feared for his life, given the amount of public animosity toward him (which I can’t judge since I wasn’t there). Remember he had his own private zoo.

 

[pepipop]

I would think the honorable thing would be to stay and account for your actions - though he may also have feared for his life, given the amount of public animosity toward him (which I can’t judge since I wasn’t there). Remember he had his own private zoo.

Plenty of oligarchs in Ukraine…but Yanu was democratically voted in, and then ousted out.

The current President, Poroshenko, is also an oligarch. I’m sure his residence isn’t too shabby either.

 

[Path_Finder]

theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/23/ukraine-party-of-regions-members-apparent-suicides-viktor-yanukovych

How do we know these suicides could not have been spurred on by the pro-Russian side?

Parliament voting to remove someone hardly constitutes a coup. Where are the soldiers forcing him to go? He must not have been very popular.

Though, Ukraine definitely has its problems.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Where’s the evidence of Russia ‘punishing’ Ukraine - oh wait, there is none?

It’s an internal conflict between separatist/nationalist Ukrainians, catalyzed by the Western backed protests, in 2013. Thereafter escalated by a Western hand-picked, anti-Russian, coup d’etat government that declared - “Russian would no longer be an official language in Ukraine” - on their first day in ‘power’, all of which really helped to set it off.

Needless to say, after the West visibly exited, Ukraine does not get a mention in the MSM, anymore.

Just wrong. As has been discussed endlessly on CAF, the majority of even Russian speaking Eastern ukrainians want to remain a part of Ukraine. And “Russian speakers” is a bit of a misnomer anyway, since most Ukrainians are bilingual and the two languages are very close akin anyway.

What the elected government of Ukraine did is stop requiring that all public acts be rendered in both Russian and Ukrainian as a matter of law. So, for example, litigation between two Ukrainian speakers before a Ukrainian speaking judge doesn’t also have to be recorded in Russian for no reason. Litigation between a Ukrainian speaker and a Russian speaker does have to be recorded in both, despite the fact that all involved would likely be bilingual.

It would be like if the U.S. required that all public acts be recorded in both English and Spanish, no matter what, then changed it so that it didn’t need to be if there was no reason to do it.

But, of course, Spanish and English aren’t the only languages spoken in the U.S. Nor are Ukrainian and Russian the only languages spoken in Ukraine.

 

[pepipop]

Just wrong. As has been discussed endlessly on CAF, the majority of even Russian speaking Eastern ukrainians want to remain a part of Ukraine. And “Russian speakers” is a bit of a misnomer anyway, since most Ukrainians are bilingual and the two languages are very close akin anyway.

What the elected government of Ukraine did is stop requiring that all public acts be rendered in both Russian and Ukrainian as a matter of law. So, for example, litigation between two Ukrainian speakers before a Ukrainian speaking judge doesn’t also have to be recorded in Russian for no reason. Litigation between a Ukrainian speaker and a Russian speaker does have to be recorded in both, despite the fact that all involved would likely be bilingual.

It would be like if the U.S. required that all public acts be recorded in both English and Spanish, no matter what, then changed it so that it didn’t need to be if there was no reason to do it.

But, of course, Spanish and English aren’t the only languages spoken in the U.S. Nor are Ukrainian and Russian the only languages spoken in Ukraine.

Whatever the law referred to, at that time it was in the press that they did not recognise Russian as an official language, in Ukraine, hence the ‘worry’ of Eastern Ukrainians and others who used Russian in day to day transactions.

Whether or not most Eastern Ukrainians wish to remain part of Ukraine, is neither here nor there as the majority speak Russian and possibly trade over the border, in business with Russia:shrug:.

Similar to NI, a lot of Catholics, in the 70’s/80’s, did not wish to be part of Ireland, mainly for economic reasons at that time.

*ibtimes.com/watch-your-tongue-language-controversy-one-fundamental-conflicts-ukraine-1559069

Outside of Russia, the European Parliament even passed a resolution calling on the new Ukraine regime to respect the rights (and languages) of its minority population. “The Parliament of Ukraine has made what I believe to be a mistake… canceling a law on regional languages,” Poland’s Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski told CNN. “The new Ukrainian government should signal very eloquently to the ethnic minorities in Ukraine that they are welcome in Ukraine; that they are going to be part of the new Ukraine. And also Ukraine is a member of the Council of Europe, [with] its laws on protecting minorities.”

reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-constitution-idUSBREA3H0GC20140418

At present, millions of Ukrainians, including many who do not consider themselves ethnically Russian, speak Russian as a first language and have a right to use it for some official purposes in those regions where Russian-speakers are a majority.

The constitution already contains some protections for Russian and other languages but names Ukrainian, a related Slavic tongue, as the sole language of the state.

Many Russian-speakers feared the overthrow of the Kremlin-backed president in February could harm their interests, especially after Ukrainian nationalists in parliament made a attempt, ultimately in vain, to pass a bill abolishing Russian language rights*

 

[grotto]

The confusing issues in Russia are confusing because the truth of the matter is not clear. There were many posts on Catholic Answers during the initial attack of Putin on Kiev and then the other end of the Ukraine. Denying all the while that they were there and waging military attacks on the country. The President of the Ukraine was a thug in the Russian Mafia and the people had enough of his stealing their money. Simple enough but the opportunity for Putin to interfere was all he needed.

He is at it again but the pressure is on him - he may make big mistakes. Obama will be gone and he will not intimidate our next President.

 

[OraLabora]

They were flying in international airspace! They don’t have to let anyone know why they are there or what they are doing.

So what, this sort of stuff goes on all the time, and yes they get real close. Here’s a shot of a Russian TU-95 Bear being intercepted in international airspace, by the UK, from the Daily Mail:



It’s a cat-and-mouse game that has been going on since the end of WWII.

Methinks you make a big deal out of nothing.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

This happens regularly with many countries. Much ado about nothing. Nothing to declare war over.

 

[pepipop]

The confusing issues in Russia are confusing because the truth of the matter is not clear. There were many posts on Catholic Answers during the initial attack of Putin on Kiev and then the other end of the Ukraine. Denying all the while that they were there and waging military attacks on the country. The President of the Ukraine was a thug in the Russian Mafia and the people had enough of his stealing their money. Simple enough but the opportunity for Putin to interfere was all he needed.

He is at it again but the pressure is on him - he may make big mistakes. Obama will be gone and he will not intimidate our next President.

Could you provide links of when Putin ‘attacked’ Kiev, I must have missed this news entirely.

How exactly is Putin intimidating any US President?

Is he flying spy planes near to the US border, and/or checking out US military operations? Does he have Russian soldiers and army bases dotted around South America and/or Canada, near to the US borders hence intimidating the USA?

What exactly has Putin done to ‘intimidate’ the USA?

 

[pepipop]

So what, this sort of stuff goes on all the time, and yes they get real close. Here’s a shot of a Russian TU-95 Bear being intercepted in international airspace, by the UK, from the Daily Mail:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/09/20/1411173213536_wps_34_epa04406996_A_handout_ima.jpg

It’s a cat-and-mouse game that has been going on since the end of WWII.

Methinks you make a big deal out of nothing.

The Irish way of handling Russian jets, flying over Ireland, last year, was a lot safer. There is no photographic evidence of the event - only a drawing of same.

twitter.com/twisteddoodles/status/568739848099659776/photo/1

 

[Path_Finder]

Could you provide links of when Putin ‘attacked’ Kiev, I must have missed this news entirely.

How exactly is Putin intimidating any US President?

Is he flying spy planes near to the US border, and/or checking out US military operations? Does he have Russian soldiers and army bases dotted around South America and/or Canada, near to the US borders hence intimidating the USA?

What exactly has Putin done to ‘intimidate’ the USA?

Giving lie to Vladimir Putin’s claims that Russia isn’t fighting in Ukraine, up to 80 Russian troops were killed in a skirmish there last month, according to information released by an opposition politician.

Members of an elite Russian paratroop force talked about the brutal battle near Luhansk, a city in eastern Ukraine, in telephone transcripts leaked to politician and newspaper publisher Lev Shlosberg.

nypost.com/2014/09/21/leaked-transcripts-reveal-putins-secret-attack-in-ukraine/

If they can strike in London or possibly, Washington DC, via the suspicious deaths of Litvenenko and again, possibly Lesin, the RT co-founder, they can strike anywhere, so I’d say the substance of “attacking Kiev” is proper.

Perhaps, the proxy-president that Ukraine threw out also could be called an attack against Kiev.

 

[pepipop]

If they can strike in London or possibly, Washington DC, via the suspicious deaths of Litvenenko and again, possibly Lesin, the RT co-founder, they can strike anywhere, so I’d say the substance of “attacking Kiev” is proper.

Perhaps, the proxy-president that Ukraine threw out also could be called an attack against Kiev.

1. None of the above has been proven. Regardless of that how does any of it surmount to an attack on London?
2. Like spy agencies from other countries have not ‘killed’, in other countries. Needless to say, they will not leave a trail a mile high for the deaths to be p(name removed by moderator)ointed on themselves.

E.G. The ‘Suicides’, that occurred to past members of the Ukrainian POR party - could be an example of a covert way to take people out.

Or, it was the Western backed (all televised) Euromaidan protests that caused the ‘attack’ in Kiev.

Either way, it had absolutely nothing to do with Putin. How did Putin orchestrate Vanu being ousted, by the Ukrainian nationalist party - is he in with them too

Putin was busy hosting the Winter Olympics next door, when the West dropped in to ‘help’ Ukraine. Needless to say, they’re now nowhere to be seen.

 

[Path_Finder]

pepipop:

1. None of the above has been proven. Regardless of that how does any of it surmount to an attack on London?
2. Like spy agencies from other countries have not ‘killed’, in other countries. Needless to say, they will not leave a trail a mile high for the deaths to be p(name removed by moderator)ointed on themselves.

E.G. The ‘Suicides’, that occurred to past members of the Ukrainian POR party - could be an example of a covert way to take people out.

Or, it was the Western backed (all televised) Euromaidan protests that caused the ‘attack’ in Kiev.

Either way, it had absolutely nothing to do with Putin. How did Putin orchestrate Vanu being ousted, by the Ukrainian nationalist party - is he in with them too

Putin was busy hosting the Winter Olympics next door, when the West dropped in to ‘help’ Ukraine. Needless to say, they’re now nowhere to be seen.

1. So spies just show up dead with polonium poisoning of a variety only found in Russia!
2. Spy agencies, Ex-Military, Opposition Politicians, Journalists, quite a long line of victims without anything being p(name removed by moderator)ointed. Except it is p(name removed by moderator)ointed by human rights activists and so forth, by Russians themselves! I will take their word for it!

Oh, the West got thousands and thousands of people out there to protest everyday in the dead of the freezing winter! They don’t have a mind of their own.

Reports from the Syrian Human Rights Observatory, blame the West, looks like the go-to bogey man again! And assert it was some fable?

With Russian spy activity so widely around and considering, that the former President of Ukraine could be called a somewhat puppet of Russia and lived a lavish lifestyle, no doubt, Russian agents could have been in the thick of things. In fact, we should really turn around the outlandish assertion that the West did it, to that the Russians may have helped shoot down protesters.

 

[pepipop]

Quite true. At least we keep ourselves out of harm’s way.

 

[Ridgerunner]

So what, this sort of stuff goes on all the time, and yes they get real close.
It’s a cat-and-mouse game that has been going on since the end of WWII.

Methinks you make a big deal out of nothing.

There is a difference between shadowing a plane that gets close to one’s borders. It’s another to blast the other with jet wash, which is what happened in the case in point. One can imagine that the Russian pilot just didn’t know what he was doing, but it’s also difficult to imagine that Russian pilot training doesn’t include “Don’t hit another plane with your jet blast if you don’t want to endanger that plane and its occupants”.

 

[pepipop]

There is a difference between shadowing a plane that gets close to one’s borders. It’s another to blast the other with jet wash, which is what happened in the case in point. One can imagine that the Russian pilot just didn’t know what he was doing, but it’s also difficult to imagine that Russian pilot training doesn’t include “Don’t hit another plane with your jet blast if you don’t want to endanger that plane and its occupants”.

If the ‘spy’ plane was flying under cover to carry out its’ ‘intel gathering activities’, then maybe the Russian pilot didn’t know it was there until it was too late.

 

[pepipop]

A UK version of the episode. Needless to say, 99% of comments are pro-Russian, in relation to this non-event.

independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russian-jet-flies-within-15-feet-of-us-air-force-plane-a6843211.html

Comments…

• • Why shouldn’t the US spy planes be intercepted near the Russian border in the ways the Russians like?

bouncer
The Russian pilot flew as close as 15 feet alongside the US RC-135U reconnaissance plane, before banking to the right “with a heavy amount of power, which caused a destabilising action for the RC-135”,

My heart bleeds !

Or conversely.
A US Air Force reconnaissance plane came within 15 feet of a Russian fighter jet in international airspace over the Black Sea on Monday.

Pentagon official said the intercept took place in ‘an unsafe and unprofessional manner’

The profession of Russian pilots is to meddle with opponent`s missions. So if US plane chose not to continue its reconnaissance flight then interception was “professional”. And if it was allowed to do so in one piece then interception was “safe”.*

 

[Ridgerunner]

If the ‘spy’ plane was flying under cover to carry out its’ ‘intel gathering activities’, then maybe the Russian pilot didn’t know it was there until it was too late.

And maybe the Russian pilot thought the U.S. plane was a martian space ship and turned away in heedless panic.

What with tested eyesight second to none and all kinds of sophisticated radar, it’s pretty hard to believe a Russian fighter pilot got within 15 feet of a much larger American plane and didn’t know the latter was there.

 

[grotto]

Dismissing this incident as “no big deal, this happens all the time” is not true. Was it a big deal when a Russian fighter pilot died by being shot down for crossing Turkey’s airspace for a wide turn? That was unnecessary and unacceptable, and the ultimate of dangerous for the pilot. So, maybe Turkey was just making a statement to Russia that they are tough too!

Remarks regarding this incident should be kept to a very serious level of discussion. Its not a joke to say something like the aircrew members had to launder their underwear. Nope!
That is something kids say in gradeschool.

When posting it would be wise to give care to those whose lives were risked and loved deeply for their service. The loss of the Russian pilot was so respected.

Situations taking place today are requiring professional skills, not hot dog pilot trainees.