Russian Orthodox Church allows confession by phone or Skype during covid-19 shutdown

[dochawk]

Essence of Sacrament of Penance as declared by Catholic Church has remained same since at least Great Schism (Early Church Confessions were apparently really, really different in aspect but so were communities)

Even then . . . I want to say the general form we know kind of spread like wildfire in the ninth century or so, but I don’t quite remember. I also don’t remember if it was German missionary monks in Ireland, or vice versa.

Also note that the RCC recognizes the PNC form of the Sacrament (while not approving!).

To take a step back however . . . this thread is ultimately a bunch of laity commenting on the validity of actions of the bishops of various apostolic churches . . .

 

[PilgrimMichelangelo]

To take a step back however . . . this thread is ultimately a bunch of laity commenting on the validity of actions of the bishops of various apostolic churches . . .

Thank you.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

Also note that the RCC recognizes the PNC form of the Sacrament (while not approving!).

What is PNC form of the Sacrament?

To take a step back however . . . this thread is ultimately a bunch of laity commenting on the validity of actions of the bishops of various apostolic churches . . .

Bishops have been wrong before. Laity have been right before. During Nestorian controversy Laity played a huge difference.

 

[Isaac14]

Bishops have been wrong before. Laity have been right before. During Nestorian controversy Laity played a huge difference.

Are you saying the exercise of economia by Orthodox priests and bishops is equivalent to the heresy of Nestorianism? Really?

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

Are you saying the exercise of economia by Orthodox priests and bishops is equivalent to the heresy of Nestorianism? Really?

No I am not. I simply said that laity caring about what Bishops do is not out of place. It was response to that general statement about laity wondering about what Bishops do. It wasn’t really aimed at this situation solely. but encompassing it in wider spectrum.

 

[Isaac14]

I simply said that laity caring about what Bishops do is not out of place. It was response to that general statement about laity wondering about what Bishops do.

I don’t think we’re saying we can’t seek to understand what our Priests & Bishops are doing. Speaking for myself, I think we’re trying to say that since the exercise of economia is inherently based on the circumstances at hand in a particular time and place involving specific clergy and laity, engaging in hypotheticals isn’t particularly helpful. Economia is not an academic exercise nor is it always going to practiced exactly the same, even for similar issues precisely because it is tailored to specific circumstances. There are not hard and fast rules.

It wasn’t really aimed at this situation solely. but encompassing it in wider spectrum.

How is it helpful to put pastoral discretion in the same situation as Christological heresy in terms of questioning clergy? It would seem to imply you think there may be something heretical about the Orthodox practice.

 

[jeannetherese]

Hey dochawk.
could you translate RCC and PNC for me? I’m not as up-to-speed- as you are on some of the acronyms encountered on these fora.

Thank you and my God bless you.
jt

 

[jeannetherese]

Thank you Jharek.

 

[dochawk]

What is PNC form of the Sacrament?

Group absolution. I think sins are recited silently first.

could you translate RCC and PNC for me? I’m not as up-to-speed- as you are on some of the acronyms encountered on these fora.

Roman Catholic Church and Polish National Church. (although I see @Jharek Camnelian answered while I was coming home from liturgy . . .)

The PNC is a US group that broke away in the 19th century over abuse and neglect of Poles by German bishops and priests. They have retained orders and sacraments recognized by the RCC. (which they got from the Old Catholic Church long before it lost them).

The RCC actually sent an observer to the last installation of the head bishop (it might have happened Sooners, but I believe that all of the predecessors were former RCC priests . . .)

 

[twf]

I believe the Armenian Apostolic Church (Oriental Orthodox) also routinely practices general absolution of the entire congregation, though they also practice private confession. The Catholic Church definitely recognizes their sacraments.

 

[AlbMagno]

So I could go to Heaven because my priest did it while I was dying in the hospital? What a privilege!

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

Group absolution. I think sins are recited silently first.

I believe the Armenian Apostolic Church (Oriental Orthodox) also routinely practices general absolution of the entire congregation, though they also practice private confession

Canons 961-963 specify how this is to be done in Latin Church. You can read them here.

Now what this means is that general absolutions indeed are a thing of discipline. Therefore each Church Sui Iuris can change that. However, this still needs people to be present to receive it.