Russian patriarch visits Ukraine

[John_Larocque]

Hello Peter J. Yes on first point! On second, well, we did have quite the heated thread on the French Revolution in the Apologetics section not too long ago where we dealt with the fact that some of the radical revolutionaries, the Jacobins and the Herbertists, were more than simple democrats but wanted to replace Christianity by coercion with a new belief in a Civic Secular Religion with the Supreme Being, the Goddess of Reason, or Nature (take your pick) as the new god. The Christian calendar was even changed. Kind of like the Bolsheviks.

Some of the Old Calendarist sites (the pages were authored by essentially Orthodox sedevacantists) complain about the Masonic connections behind at least two patriarchs of Constantinople, including the one which brought the Julian Calendar static feast dates in line with the “papist” calendar of Pope Gregory in 1923. (Or why Greek Orthodox Christmas is December 25 but Russian Orthodox Christmas is January 7). To add weirdness on top of even more weirdness, a Catholic sedevacantist page highlighted what they described as a “masonic handshake” between Paul VI and Patriarch Athenagoras (reputedly a 33rd degree Mason). Slavic Orthodox (and Ukrainian/Ruthenian Greek Catholic) still adhere to the Julian calendar, although Latinizers in the United States resulted in the Ukrainian Catholics there to adhering to the New Calendar. Canadian EC’s still appear (mostly) Old Calendar, and retaining the Old Calendar is very much in the spirit of Vatican II in recovering the eastern heritage of Eastern Catholics. Notwithstanding decades of “Sergianism,” “renovationism” and other Soviet Persecution, amazingly, the Old Calendar reigns supreme in former Soviet Russia.

 

[josie_L]

Some pretty “far out” claims have been made in this thread, no doubt, but I don’t think that has been one of them.

BTW, eOxy, you do know this is a Catholic website right?

Somebody must have forgotten to tell John Paul II (who was shot under the command of the KGB) we were bankrolling the Bolsheviks.

 

[eOxy]

I will not engage in arguments with people who believe in phantoms.

Would you clarirify would a witness of a grandson of a Third Reich Army collaborator, whom had to flee in fear in front of victorious Red Army qualify as a credible source?

Also, is CIA the only intelligence agency whose sources are good enough for you? What about others?

 

[Hesychios]

Yes, Ukrainian Greek Catholic parishes in the Russian Federation. I know in some places Ukrainians attempted to start such parishes in Russia but they were forbidden.

Aramis I think attributed it to Russia’s position on Ukrainians as an ethnic group I believe. God Bless.

I know that there are Ukrainian citizens of Russia in the Russian Orthodox church in communion with Rome, although the church lacks a hierarchy.

I think the Vatican has to authorize a separate hierarchy for the UGCC in Russia and name bishops, I don’t think that Russia is considered (by the Vatican) part of the home territory of the UGCC any more than China is. Right now the care of Greek rite Catholics is in the hands of the Latin hierarchy.

For the record, I don’t agree with that policy. I think that the Kyiv Metropolia should include all of the areas it included in 1596, that means Poland, Belarus, (perhaps also Russia, but possibly not) as well as Ukraine. And the moniker UGCC should be dropped to something appropriate to express this change. The division of this church is harmful to it, just as the division of the sub-Carpathian Ruthenians into separate Slovak, Hungarian, American, Croatian etc. hierarchies is artificial and harmful to it.

That’s just my opinion.

 

[josie_L]

Would you clarirify would a witness of a grandson of a Third Reich Army collaborator, whom had to flee in fear in front of victorious Red Army qualify as a credible source?

Also, is CIA the only intelligence agency whose sources are good enough for you? What about others?

Oh, a witness (only one and with no name given) related to a Nazi collaborator is your proof that the Vatican bankrolled the Bolsheviks.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Would you clarirify would a witness of a grandson of a Third Reich Army collaborator, whom had to flee in fear in front of victorious Red Army qualify as a credible source?

Also, is CIA the only intelligence agency whose sources are good enough for you? What about others?

Can you read English? I posted earlier in this thread that my father was almost killed by the Nazis in a camp in East Prussia and that on my mom’s side, her father was imprisoned by the Gestapo. Again, can you understand this or is it difficult?

Again, name your source for claiming the Vatican bankrolled the Bolshevik Revolution. Name your source. You cannot come on a Catholic website, throw dirt, and run away like a little child. Back up your crazy claim!

 

[Michael_Francis]

Thread closed pending review by Moderator Rachel Malloy.