Russians Indicted by FBI for Interference in 2016 Elections

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I think that can be excessive. Didn’t Bill Clinton say he was going to be president back when he was in high school? But going back that far to see if, e.g., he ever drank a Black Russian or met a Russian at Oxford would be pretty far over the edge.
 
To my understanding, Trump was able to secure western loans. It’s just that people find something untoward in his often using Deutschebank.

We’ll see anon whether Mueller has a hand to tip. I am not privy to inside stuff, of course, but after all this time, I’m really doubting he has any kind of “collusion” case. I think at this point he’s going to fry as many Trump associates as possible for other things so he has something to show for all the taxpayer money he’s spending, and do an information dump strategically timed to help the Dems in the 2018 elections. That’s the only way he can get Trump impeached.

Manafort’s interesting. He has the money to fight Mueller and shows no signs of caving.
 
VENONA. Read everything you can find on “VENONA”.

Venona is a code name used for American efforts to identify Russian agents operating in the United States.

There were two efforts. One was by the FBI. The other … using the word “venona” … was by NSA and its predecessor code-breaking agency: “Arlington Hall”.

Search all over using google and other search engines and also check all over Amazon books.

Extremely interesting.

It was declassified and stopped by President Bill Clinton.
 
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Ridgerunner said:
To my understanding, Trump was able to secure western loans. It’s just that people find something untoward in his often using Deutschebank.
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Deutschebank was recently fined for over 1 billion dollars for being involved with money-laundering with at least some banks that are affiliated one way or another with Putin and his cronies, including a bank in Cyprus that appears to have likely been involved that also has Putin connections. The greater chance of illegal activity actually more likely stands with his son-in-law, who had accumulated some major debt.

Again, too early to tell, but it seems that much of Mueller’s investigation is going along these lines, and the fact that Trump appointed and worked closely with Manafort and Gates, both of which have serious legal problems along these lines, seems to be point in the direction that some others in Trump’s camp may be involved in such activities.
 
If this is the best Mueller has, he has nothing.

And it appears some 15 of the big banks have been charged and fined for money laundering.
 
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That’s a good summary, given what we know so far about money laundering in regards to that one bank and about two public figures.

One thing I have a question on is how Manafort procured the power to change the RNC platform in regards Ukraine, no small task IMO.
 
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ProVobis said:
That’s a good summary, given what we know so far about money laundering in regards to that one bank and about two public figures.
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No it isn’t.

USB, one of the stodgiest banks in the U.S. was charged with “money laundering” too, and fined more than ten times what Deutschebank was fined. HSBC, Europe’s largest bank, was charged and fined as well.
 
I think that that argument holds little weight before Mueller’s grand jury.
 
And another question as to how he tried to secure a loan for $15 million and couldn’t get it, but then worked for the Trump election and suddenly obtained around $30 million, if my memory is correct, while taking no pay from the campaign in the process?
 
Ridgerunner said:
If this is the best Mueller has, he has nothing.
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We really have no clue as to how much he may have.

BTW, IF Trump was in any way involved in this financial mess, then maybe this might explain why he wouldn’t release his tax returns that he had repeatedly promised to do.
 
This does not mean Trump had anything to do with it. This is probably more a case of Manafort doing a little nudging and winking and others then making assumptions that if Trump won, they would be given special considerations for having helped Manafort.

FYI, many know I am not a Trump fan. At this point I don’t see any evidence that Trump was actively participating in Manafort’s outside activities.
 
Metis1 said:
BTW, IF Trump was in any way involved in this financial mess, then maybe this might explain why he wouldn’t release his tax returns that he had repeatedly promised to do.
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Improbable. Mueller can subpoena them, and might have had access to them all along.
 
We have to realize that Mueller is not tipping his hand, so any conclusion vis-a-vis Trump is way too premature. By not doing so, Mueller is playing a wise game, imo, so as to not create at least too much panic with Trump so that the latter doesn’t jump into firing him, which could create quite a constitutional crisis.

But there is indication that Trump believes he’s in trouble, going by his actions, namely firing Comey and also by trying to stop the investigation. If he’s completely innocent, then those actions make no sense.

But we’re just gonna halfta wait and see.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Mueller can subpoena them, and might have had access to them all along.
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I believe that is likely by now, especially in light of what so far has shown up with Manafort, Gates, Donald Jr., etc. Nine people have already been charged relating to the Trump camp, and six of them lied about not having any Russian connections, with four now turning state’s witness. The BIGGY there is Gates, who was organizing the campaign and was involved with the transition team, and he has agreed to testify. .
 
I think it more likely than not that the FBI had Trump’s tax returns at least back in early 2016. I do realize the easiest crime to convict one of is “lying” to law enforcement because, after all, you “said” whatever they say you did. That’s what Scooter Libby was convicted of; that he “lied” about outing Valerie Plame. Of course, he wasn’t the one who did it and the witness to his “lie” later recanted.

The next easiest crime is money laundering. If you “lie” about the source or use of money, that’s money laundering.

I’m not sure Muller has Manafort thought. Manafort has the money to defend himself against the power of the government. Gates and the others don’t.
 
Metis1 said:
But there is indication that Trump believes he’s in trouble, going by his actions, namely firing Comey and also by trying to stop the investigation. If he’s completely innocent, then those actions make no sense.

But we’re just gonna halfta wait and see.
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We are going to have to wait and see, and that’s true.

Actually, though, firing Comey made perfect sense. Comey was a loose cannon to everybody. First he’s helping Clinton, then he’s harming her, then helping her again, then he’s leaking from the White House. Trump asks Rosenstein what he thinks about Comey and Rosenstein sends Trump a blistering letter saying the FBI couldn’t function properly as long as Comey was there.

So Trump fires Comey and the next thing you know, Rosenstein is appointing Mueller to investigate Trump.
 
It seems to be all about the timing.

Had Obama fired Comey just prior to the election, Obama would have been investigated.
 
ProVobis said:
Had Obama fired Comey just prior to the election, Obama would have been investigated.
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With all due respect to your right to have an opinion, I do not agree. I don’t think there’s anything Obama could have done to get himself investigated.

Having said that, he SHOULD have fired Comey. I wondered a bit at the time why he didn’t. But he was a lame duck, so…
 
Trump made it clear why he fired Comey when interviewed by Lester Holtz, and it was to try and stop the investigation.
 
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