For the record, I never disputed that the number of religious nuns could be increased by allowing them to serve at a younger age. In fact, I think many still take on those tasks in convents and the like. As for priests, I think it’s very inconclusive, especially since it takes years to become one after normal serving age. Perhaps Cardinal Arinze sees something we don’t.
Not only problematic, but the Vatican specifically ruled that a bishop does not have the authority to mandate the use of girls in altar service.
adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html
In the real world, he can exert as much influence as he wishes. As I said above, the bishop can suggest to a priest that if he does not do XYZ, his next Mass in the diocese will be said as a prison chaplain. Likewise, the Pastor can make it difficult for an associate, though without as much leverage, and a visiting priest can simply not be invited. It is so much better to simply work with someone whose authority you are under than "standin’ up for my rights,’ even in America, were we have lost the lessons learned from obedience. The fact that this has to even be said speaks volumes as to how far we have fallen.
Yes, and in every case, the bishop, or the pastor would be valuing the altar girls over the priest.
This is not necessarily true, as those who have faced issues with subordinates can tell you, any more than it is true that the priest is valuing altar boys over his bishop. The bishop is the head of every parish and the priest operates in the name of the bishop. It is critical that no priest misunderstand this fact. I agree that this one issue would make a ridiculous reason to remove a priest. However, if could well be indicative of a pattern of lack of obedience, or a pattern of the priest moving a parish in a way the bishop does not want.
I am very pleased to see the girls in our parish serve along with the boys. I think they take it seriously and do a great job. I think that it was a positive change to allow girls to become alter servers. I especially like to see the children in procession before and after the Mass carrying Our Lord on the cross as this is pleasing to Our Lady. This thread makes me sad also.
The last thing Our Lady wants is for Catholics to ignore Her Son, who still guides the Magisterium. That should make you happy, not sad.
Actually, he cannot do that either. The same dubia noted that a bishop (nor priest) can forbid the use of boys or men at the altar.
By definition, this would not be indicative of a lack of obedience. Aquinas defined the Virtue of Obedience as conforming one’s will to the will of the one who has authority.
That was not the point. From a bishop’s perspective, such a priest is still subject to the bishop’s decisions, right or wrong. At work we have a saying for such issues, “that’s not a cross I want to die on.” In your story, do you thing that seminarian was ever invited back to say Mass by that priest? If the priest is a man of exceptional humility, perhaps. However, if he took a blow to his pride, it would be hard. In a relationship that lasts for decades between a bishop and a priest, one has to weigh the cost of such decisions.
I believe that it is the Holy Spirit that guides the Magisterium, or perhaps Jesus through the Holy Spirit. Having girl altar servers in no way is ignoring Jesus or bringing disservice to the Magisterium.
Well you stated that it could be indicitive of a patter of disobedince, and I fail to see how it could be, if it was not a disobedient act.
Yes, I agrreed that the bishop COULD transfer him, that would be within the competency of the bishop.
Not to my knowledge. His pastoral associate assignment assignment was at a different parish, as was his next one. He was then given two other parishes, each larger than the next.
Exactly, which is why the VAST majority of bishops, including +Cordileone, in which the OP parish is in, choose not to exhibit disobedient behavior to their priests. It can damage the relationship that they wish to foster. A bishop who ignores instructions from authorities above them often have difficulty in asking for compliance themselves.
The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ on earth, animated by the Holy Spirit, but guided and directed by Christ, the head, according to the Magisterium. He continues to rule the Church from within by supernatural means that are permanent and constantly active within the members, including the Magisterium .
That is a good point. I think this is why such decisions are almost never an issue. I note that the bishop in this case backed his priest. I would bet most priests would reciprocate and listen to “advice” from the bishop, even if it was not what he really wanted.
In that one case, the priest brought his own, so this would apply. Note though that “not forbidding”, and “providing” are two different things. Also, in most cases the priest could still simply not invite the visiting priest.
If you were referring to my example, the altar boys were all altar boys in the parish already. The seminarian simply choose 4 altar servers from the parish roster who all were boys.
Yea, I think that pastor got some flack for it, not only from the Cardinal, but from other parishioners. That was why the Thanksgiving Mass did not get cancelled, the people in the parish WANTED to celebrate the Ordination and no one (except for the pastor) seemed to care that the altar servers were all boys.
Substitute reader and Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion for altar server and you get the situation in our parish a few years ago. As the person who did up the schedule I would be taken to task if I didn’t schedule both men and women at every Mass. It still sticks in the craw of some women that only the KofC are readers and EMHCs at the Sunday Mass on the First Sunday of the Month.