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R
RosslynV
Guest
This rogue priest should be demoted to the sspx. No sexism allowed in my conciliar church!
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SWolf
Guest
No sexism was shown on the part of the priest. Please read the full thread.
Uh, or was this sarcasm, my meter is broken
K
KSU
Guest
You mean your anti-conciliar church. The real conciliar Church knows better.
You sound like a product of Gerogetown, just across the river.
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pnewton
Guest
In light of the myriad of variables involved, I think it should be safe to conclude that statistics will be even of less use than anecdotal evidence. If a diocese does well in vocations with just altar boys, that is just one bishop performing his duties as he seems best. A correlation does not hold with a single example. Also, even when a correlation can hold, there is not accounting for causation. It may well be, and in light of the number of variables actually be, that there is another cause, or convergence of causes, that is affect both the policy and the number of vocations.
This is why we need to lay off judging people like this priest who wants to have only altar boys. It is also why we need to lay off all the good bishops and priests that allow girls as well.
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pnewton
Guest
There is only** one **Church. Unity is the mark of the Church. Any attempt to redefine a portion of the Church as conciliar, “nice” or modernist is unhealthy at best.
K
KSU
Guest
Still wrong, my friend. To reiterate: The Magisterium has prescribed alter girls as the norm, and said that if,for a specific local reason, it is decided to deviate from the norm and permit females to serve at the altar, the decision** must be clearly explained to the faithful, must be done with a view to the ordered development of liturgical life, and must also be clearly understood that it’s merely a temporary deputation. **
Disregard of the above Church discipline (which was prescribed for Church unity) is something you may want to ignore. OK, that’s your business, but I still don’t understand your telling the rest of us that “we need to lay off judging” actions which, without compliance with the requirements in the paragraph above, deviate from Church discipline for unity.
Ignoring Church-prescribed discipline since VCII is precisely how we got into the current sad state of cafeteria Catholicism; we do our own thing as long as our hearts are in the right place, and Church unity be damned.
And sure enough, as soon as the Church in America starts to right the ship, along come the cafeteria Catholics, the militant feminists, and the Church-hating secular media.
No, p, I can’t judge your heart, so I am not saying you are a cafeteria Catholic.
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hwriggles4
Guest
The way I understand it, the pastor can make the decision of whether or not to have altar girls (with the exception of the Diocese of Lincoln (Nebraska) where Bishop Bruskewitz mandated altar boys only, and the newer Bishop (Conley) holds this in place). Lincoln is one diocese saying “what priest shortage?”
Many parishes across the USA in many dioceses have priests who mandate “altar boys only”. The parishes I have visited that do this normally have 3 or 4 altar boys every week, and the boys are enthusiastic and want to serve. In my own diocese, two parishes (the FSSP parish makes three) that I know of use only altar boys, and both of liturgically solid. I am trying to encourage my own pastor to use only altar boys (although the majority of the servers there are boys). As a former altar boy, my opinion is a boy gets to see more of the “day to day”, which is helpful in the awareness of what a priest does.
Honestly, when I see three or four girls on the altar (and no boys), I think there is a disconnect. When boys 10-14 see all girls, the boys don’t want to volunteer, because they think it’s a “girl thing”. I also think that the parish priest is not as “manly” as others, so boys choose not to volunteer at certain parishes.
The FSSP does not use altar girls at all, and at their parishes, there are normally three to four well trained altar boys. Keep in mind that the FSSP is in union and communion with Rome. I don’t think the Anglican ordinariate uses altar girls either, but that’s something I will have to verify.
Many parishes across the USA in many dioceses have priests who mandate “altar boys only”. The parishes I have visited that do this normally have 3 or 4 altar boys every week, and the boys are enthusiastic and want to serve. In my own diocese, two parishes (the FSSP parish makes three) that I know of use only altar boys, and both of liturgically solid. I am trying to encourage my own pastor to use only altar boys (although the majority of the servers there are boys). As a former altar boy, my opinion is a boy gets to see more of the “day to day”, which is helpful in the awareness of what a priest does.
Honestly, when I see three or four girls on the altar (and no boys), I think there is a disconnect. When boys 10-14 see all girls, the boys don’t want to volunteer, because they think it’s a “girl thing”. I also think that the parish priest is not as “manly” as others, so boys choose not to volunteer at certain parishes.
The FSSP does not use altar girls at all, and at their parishes, there are normally three to four well trained altar boys. Keep in mind that the FSSP is in union and communion with Rome. I don’t think the Anglican ordinariate uses altar girls either, but that’s something I will have to verify.
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hwriggles4
Guest
For what it’s worth, between 1985 and 1999, the Diocese of Arlington (Virginia) was a seedbed of vocations. Like Lincoln, Arlington mandated altar boys only, and the average age of a priest in the Arlington diocese 15 years ago was in the late 40’s (across the country, the average priest today is in his 60’s).
What happened? Bishop Keating passed away in 1990. The new bishop changed quite a few things in the Arlington diocese, including reassigning Fr. James Gould, who during the 80’s and 90’s was often noted as “the most successful vocations director in the USA”. That was when Arlington was ordaining an average of 7 priests a year. Peoria, Rockford, Wichita, and a few other dioceses had similar successes. The newer bishop now allows altar girls, which is part of the reason vocations in the Arlington diocese have declined.
When it comes to vocations, the Bishop does matter.
What happened? Bishop Keating passed away in 1990. The new bishop changed quite a few things in the Arlington diocese, including reassigning Fr. James Gould, who during the 80’s and 90’s was often noted as “the most successful vocations director in the USA”. That was when Arlington was ordaining an average of 7 priests a year. Peoria, Rockford, Wichita, and a few other dioceses had similar successes. The newer bishop now allows altar girls, which is part of the reason vocations in the Arlington diocese have declined.
When it comes to vocations, the Bishop does matter.
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cycleman
Guest
And your proof of this is where? Remember, correlation does not prove causation.
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saintjohnxxiii
Guest
If I may, I think RosslynV was speaking fluent sarcasm.
K
KSU
Guest
I worked there from '63 to '98, and saw it happen after God called Bishop Keating home at a young age.
It may be that what helped the diocese from becoming another Richmond at the time was the infusion of a handful of the most orthodox, courageous young priests I can remember together in one diocese. You named one, another is Fr. Paul Scalia.
My wife and I moved to Texas for 12 years, but I kept up with the sad goings on for a while.
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pnewton
Guest
This keeps getting thrown out as a problem. Is it really in this day and age where almost all of life is co-ed at this age? It is not an issue in my world.
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ProVobis
Guest
I don’t know if co-ed at this age is all that good but I’m not going to say it’s bad either. When I attended school in London it was an all-boys school. I went to an all-boys high school here in the states. When I attended grade school in the states, it was co-ed but during recess and going home, boys stuck together and the girls stuck together. The boys even teased each other if they said they liked a girl. Just before graduation, the nuns threw a dance for the class in the auditorium. It was perhaps the most uncomfortable event imaginable.
I would say co-ed isn’t much of an issue after the kids are allowed to date by their parents.
K
KSU
Guest
Pro, that’s a factual picture of nature; the way God created us.
It’s so obvious to both the secular and ecclesiastical worlds (at least those that still operate on the basis of reason rather than liberal ideology) that it shouldn’t even have to be mentioned, much less debated.
K
KSU
Guest
Probably, but in the end, contrariorum contraria est ratio (The reason of contrary things is contrary).Yet, the parents who think coupling their kids at an early age is cute. Bragging rights, or just argumentum gratia argumenti maybe?
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kozlosap
Guest
:d. Amen!!!
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hwriggles4
Guest
KSU:
Thanks for posting. However, I realized this morning that I goofed. Keating passed away in 1999, not 1990. Honestly, Keating was in Rome during his Ad Lima visit at that time when he succumbed to a heart attack.
There are quite a few courageous priests in the Arlington Diocese. I second Fr. Paul Scalia, and I am familiar with Fr. Daniel Mode, who is currently serving on active duty in the Navy, and with Fr. Eric Albertson, who I believe is still active duty Army. I have met Fr. Brian Bashista, who has an interesting vocation story, and Tim Staples brother is also a priest serving in the Arlington Diocese.
Yes, Richmond did have a handful of problems. DiLorenzo did some housecleaning after his arrival there. One priest I know has been assigned to Richmond (his home diocese is overseas), and I privately gave him some information about some of the things that happened there under the previous ordinary.
KSU, from friends who lived in Northern Virginia, I heard there were quite a few Catholics who made the drive from the Richmond Diocese to the Arlington Diocese in the 80s and 90s. Arlington and Richmond were like night and day. This was also common in other parts of the country (i.e. Milwaukee driving to Peoria, Saginaw driving to Gaylord or Lansing, Rochester driving elsewhere) during the 70s, 80s, and 90s. When Carlson arrived in Saginaw circa 2004, vocations were at an all-time low. Two years later, Saginaw had nearly 20 seminarians. Not long after that, Carlson became Archbishop of St. Louis.
Appreciate the feedback.
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