S/O of feminist thread - What is the job description for the "spiritual head" of the family?

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JamesBond007 said:
And what about the woman’s requirements? So a man is supposed to die for his wife while the wife can do as she pleases. Here is the problem, no one balances their genders requirements and prefer to only focus on the others. If a man is doing as Christ does then what is the wife’s requirement? What is that leadership and leading by example doing? Sounds like teaching the wife by example to me hence leading her still. Contradiction number 2.

And what happens if the woman changes her mind? Suddenly decides she doesn’t want to jeopardize her career? People’s minds change and its rarely in a more Christ-centered way.

The CCC although insightful neglects research that shows a fathers spiritual life more strongly influences regular church attendance than a mothers. That is scientific fact. Deny it if you like but I didn’t make the data (touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=14-01-026-f and likeateam.com/roles-dads-play-in-the-spiritual-development-of-their-children/)

Not according to the research data (touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=14-01-026-f).

To all:
All religion through the ages has been about 1 thing, keeping hubris in check. Mankind has a nasty problem with ego and doesn’t like to follow. That is clearly apparent even among many who claim to speak for one religion or another. It’s part of the human condition. Men have been charged to give their lives for their wives, and wives have to give something in return too. This is part of “being one flesh” and acting as one. You can’t have 2 pilots anymore than you can have a dictator running a country. We strive for the ideal even if we can’t reach it. There are plenty of women in happy marriages where the husband leads and it works. Telling them “they got it wrong” is as arrogant as it gets. That what “being one flesh” is about.
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What does the Catholic Church mean to you. Does it mean – The Catholic Church teaches A – but I supplant A – with my “own view/interpretation”.
 
agapewolf said:
No. Not when its helpful information. It’s simply reporting statistics from a survey.
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Surveys – do not supplant – Catholic teaching. The Church entrusts religious education to both parents.
 
Walking_Home said:
Surveys – do not supplant – Catholic teaching. The Church entrusts religious education to both parents.
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Completely missing the point. It’s not talking about “religious education”.

Read the article.
 
agapewolf said:
Completely missing the point. It’s not talking about “religious education”.

Read the article.
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Attending Mass is part of the religious education that parents impart to the Children. And this is entrusted to both parents.
 
severus68 said:
Marriage is not a corporation, it is not the army etc. A marriage based on love and respect does not have dominance or bosses in it.

We should not live life or a marriage on the basis that with the Fall, we are all sinners so we should act as sinners and not strive to lift ourselves up, to aspire to be what God wants us to be.

There are so many good marriages in which no one is the boss.
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I agree. Comparing a marriage where the man leads to a corporation or the army won’t work. I think the most apt comparison is ballroom dancing. The man leads but the woman is hardly a weak passive partner.
 
Walking_Home said:
Attending Mass is part of the religious education that parents impart to the Children. And this is entrusted to both parents.
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Oh please…are you trying to be obtuse? Still completely and utterly missing the point.

Children “get” their faith from their fathers. They don’t necessarily get taught the ins and outs and everything from their fathers. But their religious PRACTICE is transmitted and instilled through the father.

There ARE differences between men and women. Children learn different things from mothers than they do fathers. By “learn” I mean “get”. the essence and ability to do things in practice, not necessarily the “how”.
 
agapewolf said:
Oh please…are you trying to be obtuse? Still completely and utterly missing the point.

Children “get” their faith from their fathers. They don’t necessarily get taught the ins and outs and everything from their fathers. But their religious PRACTICE is transmitted and instilled through the father.

There ARE differences between men and women. Children learn different things from mothers than they do fathers. By “learn” I mean “get”. the essence and ability to do things in practice, not necessarily the “how”.
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I agree. Children get their faith from their fathers.

Having said that, most men are atheists. Or maybe it’s just the men I know, my father included.
 
agapewolf said:
Oh please…are you trying to be obtuse? Still completely and utterly missing the point.

Children “get” their faith from their fathers. They don’t necessarily get taught the ins and outs and everything from their fathers. But their religious PRACTICE is transmitted and instilled through the father.

There ARE differences between men and women. Children learn different things from mothers than they do fathers. By “learn” I mean “get”. the essence and ability to do things in practice, not necessarily the “how”.
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When children are erroneously “groom” to see the father as the spiritual leader-- yes his involvement/non-involvement will impact the children. When children are correctly brought up to see both mother and father as equals in transmitting the Faith – the non-involvement of the father will have less impact on the children.
 
Walking_Home said:
When children are erroneously “groom” to see the father as the spiritual leader-- yes his involvement/non-involvement will impact the children. When children are correctly brought up to see both mother and father as equals in transmitting the Faith – the non-involvement of the father will have less impact on the children.
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That makes no sense whatsoever, proven by that article. In a family that the father is non-practicing, the children wouldn’t be “groomed” to look at the father as the spiritual leader.

It’s part of being male or female. In God’s design.

You are completely disregarding the very beautiful design (BY GOD) of the sexual (meaning difference of the sexes) complementarity and the different gifts they bring.

Read “Wild at Heart” and “Captivating” . Read Theology of the Body.
 
Walking_Home said:
When children are erroneously “groom” to see the father as the spiritual leader-- yes his involvement/non-involvement will impact the children. When children are correctly brought up to see both mother and father as equals in transmitting the Faith – the non-involvement of the father will have less impact on the children.
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Not really. I have seen marriages between devout Catholic women and atheist men. No matter how diligently the woman tries to impart the faith to her children, the children chose atheism anyway. In fact this happened in my own family.
 
agapewolf said:
That makes no sense whatsoever, proven by that article. In a family that the father is non-practicing, the children wouldn’t be “groomed” to look at the father as the spiritual leader.

It’s part of being male or female. In God’s design.

You are completely disregarding the very beautiful design (BY GOD) of the sexual (meaning difference of the sexes) complementarity and the different gifts they bring.

Read “Wild at Heart” and “Captivating” . Read Theology of the Body.
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If the children are brought up seeing the mother take the back seat compared to the father – the father will have more pull with the children – practicing or not.
 
Book_Worm said:
One of the main reasons I began this thread was my discomfort with the idea that the man is the spiritual head because that is not the case in my family and I wondered if I was missing something. (Yes, it is all about me. ;))

I am a cradle Catholic, with more than 12 years of Catholic school under my belt; DH converted from Methodism when we married. Additionally, I have a greater inclination to learn more about my religion and why and how it is practiced. DH, possibly because religion did not play a large part in his family’s life, believes you attend Mass faithfully and follow the rules of the Church, without a great deal of investigation as to why the rules exist. He is very content to let me figure it out and tell him what’s what. He would have less than no interest in CAF.

We have been married for many years and have raised a DD who is a faithful Catholic who is teaching her children to be good Catholics.

So I wondered why some would say that we are not following the example the Church wants us to follow.
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I wanted to address your post individually while taking up several topics that have come up on this thread.
I think the husband is supposed to be the spiritual head of the household. But many lack in their jobs. That is why in some Churches mostly women fill the pews. Just like men should be involved and holy fathers modeling our Father in Heaven, so too should they lead the family to heaven. That does not always happen. And believe me, I understand what you are saying about how some might “judge” your family despite the results. I am a Stay at home homeschooling dad. So I hear ya sista, I get it too, that we are doing things backward. But here is the thing. It can be like a single mom. No one wants to tell a single mom that she is doing poorly raising her children. But the fact is, it is supposed to be a two parent male female household, that would be God’s design. Now, sometimes this does not happen. Does that mean we should judge single moms? Or tell them how awful they are. Or blame a widow for her husbands death? NO of course not! But it is not the optimal situation God would have. Same with me, same with you. We do what is best with the hand dealt us. Our main goal is to get ourselves and our loved ones to heaven.

Now, that being said I have no idea where all of this “The Church does not teach the man is the head” stuff comes from. Someone quoted the CCC about parents having the responsibility to teach the faith to the kids as some sort of proof that it is equal. Nope. That part of the CCC is completely fulfilled in many scenarios where the husband is the head of the household in regards to faith. A homeschooling mom, teaching her kids the faith is not asserting “head of household with faith matters” She is following the lead of the husband in living a Catholic life and being a Catholic family.
Jesus was not in the Temple teaching women to go home and teach their husbands, he was teaching men, to go home and teach their families. Long before Christianity, in our Jewish roots the man was the head of the household of faith.
In the book of Joshua we have this:
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."
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This is not a woman speaking, it is a man, speaking for his household.

Analogies are made, and for good reason, between a family and God and His Church.
God is our Father. He is the ultimate of what a father should be. Men should try to be like the Father when they are fathers. We will fail, but that is the bar for us to strive for.

The Church and Mary our our mothers. They lead us in the faith as well. Under direction of the Father and Son. What did Mary say about her Son? “Listen to Him and do whatever He says”

We were all given Mary as a mother and the Church as God’s Bride but Mary is not God, She is not the Father. The CHurch is subject to the Father as well.
The Husband should be the head. But how many saints have had the Mother to thank for their soul. Augustine definitely has his mother to thank
Augustine’s father was a Pagan. Monica begged to have him (augustine) baptised.

From Wiki:
Monica had three children who survived infancy: Augustine the eldest, Navigius the second, and a daughter, Perpetua. Monica had been unable to secure baptism for her children, and she experienced much grief when Augustine fell ill. In her distress she asked Patritius to allow Augustine to be baptized; Patritius agreed, but on the boy’s recovery withdrew his consent.
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Of course the rest is history. Monica prayed for Augustine unceasingly and because of her he became one of the greatest saints in our Church.

Interestingly enough he went on to state this:
“You are told, ‘You shall not commit adultery’ (Ex 20:14); that is, do not go to any other woman except your wife. But what you do is demand this duty from your wife, while declining to pay this duty to your wife. And while you ought to lead your wife in virtue — chastity is a virtue, you know — you collapse under one assault of lust. You want your wife to conquer; you yourself lie there, conquered. And while you are the head of your wife, she goes ahead of you to God, she whose head you are. Do you want your household to hang head downwards? ‘The husband is the head of the wife’ (Eph 5:23); but where the wife leads a better life than the husband, the household hangs head downwards.” (Sermon 9, 3)
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marymary1975 said:
Sincerely, if you have been married for a long time, have a happy marriage, have a daughter who is a practicing catholic and who is inculcating the faith to her own children… Then what you are doing is right. Jesus said that we would be know by our fruits. Your fruits have been good so just keep doing what your doing.

And I want to reiterate, in most great saints families the mother was the spiritual head. St John Bosco is a great example of having faithful parents but the mother was the spiritual head and the product of that was a great saint. Would any of the ones here arguing that the man has to be the spiritual head otherwise something is wrong, would you say that st John Bosco’s family did wrong? Or st Francis’ mom was in the wrong? Or st Maximilian kolbe’s mom violated God’s law?
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Well said.
 
JamesBond007 said:
And what about the woman’s requirements? So a man is supposed to die for his wife while the wife can do as she pleases. Here is the problem, no one balances their genders requirements and prefer to only focus on the others. If a man is doing as Christ does then what is the wife’s requirement? What is that leadership and leading by example doing? Sounds like teaching the wife by example to me hence leading her still. Contradiction number 2.
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Ego is not the monopoly of women.Becoming one flesh does not mean, the wife is absorbed into the husband.
We are not telling anyone that they have gotten it wrong. You are stating things as doctrine when it is not and saying we are wrong.
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