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2shelbys
Guest
Exactly right.
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manualman
Guest
Anybody got links to actual statistics that says SUV’s are safer than cars? Anybody? The anecdotal impressions of emergency folks are useful, but I’d prefer some hard numbers.
I’m actually NOT an SUV basher. People who have families and decent size boats or campers have few other options.
But I AM bothered that people seem to buy them as status statements without considering the downsides. And that people seem to accept claims of extra safety that seem based more on advertising than real studies.
Folks, rollover is NOT just due to crazy driving. SUV rollovers happen a LOT when:
P.S. Driving to work this morning, saw a Chevy Malibu Maxx. Very versatile design with a lot of cargo space for a smaller midsize. I believe it gets 30+ mpg too!
I’m actually NOT an SUV basher. People who have families and decent size boats or campers have few other options.
But I AM bothered that people seem to buy them as status statements without considering the downsides. And that people seem to accept claims of extra safety that seem based more on advertising than real studies.
Folks, rollover is NOT just due to crazy driving. SUV rollovers happen a LOT when:
- Tires blow out and surprised drivers over-react.
- A second vehicle crashes into you.
- For whatever reason, (wind gust, lane crowding truck, etc) the outside tire goes off the pavement edge momentarily.
- An emergency swerve is required to avoid crashing into something.
P.S. Driving to work this morning, saw a Chevy Malibu Maxx. Very versatile design with a lot of cargo space for a smaller midsize. I believe it gets 30+ mpg too!
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Princess_Abby
Guest
Just to clarify…because I am not a vehicle person, I just want “safe, reliable and affordable,” as I have said all along…
Are these statements directed at ALL SUVs (including small and mid-size) or only the big, huge ones like suburbans?
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2shelbys
Guest
That is puzzling since he is the head of the department that determined that the single most imoprtant factor in surviving an accident was the size of the vehicle. Maybe he is new or maybe does not read their own findings. They actually determined that there was an increase in death rate for every 100 pounds less in vehicle weight. The original NHTSA report was like 334 pages long but here is a link to a summary of the data and an excerpt from it:
usroads.com/journals/p/rilj/9709/ri970901.htm
“Large, heavy cars generally offer more protection to their occupants, with fatalities in lighter vehicles averaging two to three times the fatalities in heavier vehicles. Because of their additional size, larger vehicles allow more “crush space” to absorb impact. Vehicle size is not a major consideration in single-vehicle crashes as a whole, but it is “the key factor” in rollovers. A disadvantage of larger vehicles, however, is their increased fuel consumption. Although consumers should be provided a vehicle’s size and weight information to evaluate its crashworthiness, this is only one factor to consider.”
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manualman
Guest
Maybe that’s a contradiction, maybe it’s not.
The first sentence implies that the comparison is among CARS of varying sizes. I admit I don’t at the moment have time to read the whole link, but are you sure their study wasn’t just on cars?
The feds consider SUV’s light trucks, which, in fedworld is a whole separate class from automobiles.
IIRC the major concern was truck based SUV’s. The smaller ones I listed above are unibody car-based psuedo SUVs. (Jacked up station wagons with big tires). These have lower centers of gravity than trucks, but higher than cars and wagons with ‘normal’ size tires.
Truck based SUV’s are things like the Tahoe, Suburban, Expedition, Sequoia, 4Runner, Pathfinder, Armada, Trailblazer, Explorer, Durango, Grand Cherokee. Generally, if it offers real off-road 4x4, its a frame truck. If the only 4 wheel drive system is described as “all wheel drive” it’s probably a unibody (a few exceptions).
The first sentence implies that the comparison is among CARS of varying sizes. I admit I don’t at the moment have time to read the whole link, but are you sure their study wasn’t just on cars?
The feds consider SUV’s light trucks, which, in fedworld is a whole separate class from automobiles.
IIRC the major concern was truck based SUV’s. The smaller ones I listed above are unibody car-based psuedo SUVs. (Jacked up station wagons with big tires). These have lower centers of gravity than trucks, but higher than cars and wagons with ‘normal’ size tires.
Truck based SUV’s are things like the Tahoe, Suburban, Expedition, Sequoia, 4Runner, Pathfinder, Armada, Trailblazer, Explorer, Durango, Grand Cherokee. Generally, if it offers real off-road 4x4, its a frame truck. If the only 4 wheel drive system is described as “all wheel drive” it’s probably a unibody (a few exceptions).
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2shelbys
Guest
It is a LONG read. The study was very comprehensive and covered all scenarios. Car vs. car, car vs. truck, car vs. SUV, truck vs. truck, truck vs. SUV, SUV vs. SUV, etc.
The one consideration I have not seen mentioned in relation to the “center-of-gravity” issue is that the full frame and HD 4WD systems in larger trucks and SUV’s helps to lower the center of gravity because of the extra weight of the frame and extra axles, drive shafts, and differentials all of which are at the lowest point on the vehicle. The vehicles with the highest center-of-gravity would tend to be higher 2WD vehicles with unibody frames. This is of couse negated when you lift a truck with a lift kit or bigger wheels and tires.
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MooCowSteph
Guest
Princess_abby, I bet you had no idea that your innocent topic would end up in so lively a discussion! 
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DJgang
Guest
Gosh, long thread…I’ll give my .02
Had a Ford Explorer…hard to lift babies up in car seat! I’m only 5 ft tall…when they get to be a year or more old…they get heavy. Plus insurance was higher.
So, I now have a Mazda MPV mini-van. I Love it! Worth every dime.
I suggest a mini-van. Insurance on my new MPV was cheaper than a 5 year old Ford Explorer…go figure.
Also, look for a minivan a few years old with only about 15000 or 20000 miles. You’ll save a ton.
Had a Ford Explorer…hard to lift babies up in car seat! I’m only 5 ft tall…when they get to be a year or more old…they get heavy. Plus insurance was higher.
So, I now have a Mazda MPV mini-van. I Love it! Worth every dime.
I suggest a mini-van. Insurance on my new MPV was cheaper than a 5 year old Ford Explorer…go figure.
Also, look for a minivan a few years old with only about 15000 or 20000 miles. You’ll save a ton.
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Princess_Abby
Guest
Ha… and I still have no idea what we’ll be buying.Princess_abby, I bet you had no idea that your innocent topic would end up in so lively a discussion!
Hubby wants to put it off another month or so to allow him some time to really research, too.
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Courtneyjo
Guest
Don’t believe the mileage that the sticker states. It’s been in the news lately that the sticker milege is best of all possilbe worlds mileage, not real world mileage.
We enjoyed our Honda CRV for many years. Ver reliable, four doors, good mileage, small SUV. My tall husband fit in it just fine. I really appreciate a car that is a bit higher off the road; the driver’s visibility is much better.
We enjoyed our Honda CRV for many years. Ver reliable, four doors, good mileage, small SUV. My tall husband fit in it just fine. I really appreciate a car that is a bit higher off the road; the driver’s visibility is much better.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
That might be due to their poor safety record. I mentioned in an earlier post that EMS workers refer to them as Ford Exploders
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2shelbys
Guest
That is exactly what we called them in the car business. As a side note on Ford’s flammable history; there is a guy around here who has a Pinto station wagon all restored and he has a vanity plate on it that says “KABOOM”.That might be due to their poor safety record. I mentioned in an earlier post that EMS workers refer to them as Ford Exploders
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paramedicgirl
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mjt
Guest
hi, just as a thought, if safety is a priority I would consult your local fire dept. on what vehicles they recommend. I know that may sound funny, but I a firefighter and work at a lot of car accidents, in reality the vehicles with the high test results are not always the safest in real life situations. just a few cents.
happy shopping.
happy shopping.
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Princess_Abby
Guest
That’s a great idea… what would you suggest? I live in the midwest too.
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2shelbys
Guest
This is a very good point. When I was in the car business there was a growing concern that some manufacturers were “building to the test” and concerning themselves less about real-world survivability. The other point is that the difference between a vehicle that just made 5 star and one that just missed it is negligible in reality. The ratings are a good guidline but they are not gospel and are not necessarily meaningful unless you are looking at a 5 star vehicle versus a 3 star one.
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Glenn_Lego
Guest
Island Oak:
Take a look at the 2006 Hyundai Sonata. For around $20,000 you get a pretty well-equipped car with just the equipment you want. along with a 100,000 mile warranty. No I’m not a Hyundai salesman! Hope this helps God Bless
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DJgang
Guest
:yup: Also heard because of high roll over accidents! I sure am glad I don’t have it anymore!That might be due to their poor safety record. I mentioned in an earlier post that EMS workers refer to them as Ford Exploders
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TNT
Guest
I’ve been a “car guy” all my life.
Your choice is longterm excellent.
However, if money is a limiting factor, consider the new 06 Ford Fusion
Or, go to cars.com
You can do a complete comparison from any standpoint, including side by side on safety, fuel mileage and prices…
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Al_Masetti
Guest
Don’t know how true this really is, but I read somewhere that if you get bumped gently and your vehicle has a hundred airbags and they all go off, even if there is no actual damage to the car, … then the insurance company will “total” your car on account of because the cost of replacing all those air bags is more than the car is worth.
BTW, also at a place where I used to rent cars a lot, they also called the Ford Explorer, a Ford Exploder.
BTW, also at a place where I used to rent cars a lot, they also called the Ford Explorer, a Ford Exploder.
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