Saint Maria Goretti being attacked for protecting her Virginity

[AnemoneNarcisus]

She is considered a martyr for purity because she died trying to defend her moral purity as well as her attacker. She forgave him as she died. What is wrong with that? Dying for doing what is right or refusing to do what is wrong can make you a martyr. More often people are considered martyrs because they refused to do something wrong such as renounce their faith in God, as the Macabees in the OT to eat unclean food, and as in St Maria here give into immorality. You have a narrow view of what a martyr is.

But you still didn’t answer my question… If a Martyr of Purity is someone who tries to defend either their moral purity or their attacker’s, why are the other Martyrs of Purity considered martyrs? The only thing we know about their deaths is that they were killed when they resisted rape - we don’t know WHY they resisted. That suggests that a Martyr of Purity is a woman who chooses death over rape, and thus supports the idea that a woman is ‘better dead than raped.’.

 

[robwar]

How does a woman lose her dignity when she is raped? Many feminists are against people viewing women as sex objects, but most would agree that it is better to be raped than to be dead.

Are you serious? Rape (female or male victims) is probably one of the worse crime against the dignity of the person. It take years for victims to overcome. did you even watch that horrible Penn State blow up? You are support rape and that’s ok? Who say most agree it would be better to be raped than dead?

 

[Sneaux]

It’s because in this day and age, most people worship sex more than they worship Christ.

 

[AnemoneNarcisus]

Are you serious? Rape (female or male victims) is probably one of the worse crime against the dignity of the person. It take years for victims to overcome. did you even watch that horrible Penn State blow up? You are support rape and that’s ok? Who say most agree it would be better to be raped than dead?

Definition of dignity: The state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect.
I don’t see how a woman loses her right to be honoured or respected when she is raped.

I’ve no idea what Penn State is. I do not support rape; I couldn’t be more against rape - it’s something I’m VERY passionate about.

The existance of ‘Martyrs of Purity’ agrees that it is better to be dead than raped - as I’ve proven above.

EDIT: It’s because in this day and age, most people worship sex more than they worship Christ.]

Consenting to sex is completely different to being raped.

 

[SonCatcher]

It isn’t only women. St. Charles Lwanga was martyred under similar circumstances.

A person is not required to accept violence in order to save his/her life.

 

[robwar]

But you still didn’t answer my question… If a Martyr of Purity is someone who tries to defend either their moral purity or their attacker’s, why are the other Martyrs of Purity considered martyrs? The only thing we know about their deaths is that they were killed when they resisted rape - we don’t know WHY they resisted. That suggests that a Martyr of Purity is a woman who chooses death over rape, and thus supports the idea that a woman is ‘better dead than raped.’.

There are also male martyrs for purity and you have a very sad view of morality and rape and those who do die resting being physically abuse and taken advantage of sexually. You have a very sad view that victims should just roll over and take it in order to live.

 

[AnemoneNarcisus]

It isn’t only women. St. Charles Lwanga was martyred under similar circumstances.

A person is not required to accept violence in order to save his/her life.

How so? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think I remember St. Charles Lwanga being a Martyr of Faith, not Purity. Not to mention, it wouldn’t make any difference if there were also male Martyrs of Purity - the negative message would still be the same.

EDIT: ****There are also male martyrs for purity and you have a very sad view of morality and rape and those who do die resting being physically abuse and taken advantage of sexually. You have a very sad view that victims should just roll over and take it in order to live. ****

Like I said above, it doesn’t change anything if there is a male Martyr of Purity (although, I don’t know of any). I said in one of my earlier posts that it wasn’t wrong to fight a rapist, and even die doing it. It just DOESN’T make a person a MARTYR.

 

[april32010]

What’s being overlooked is that St. Maria told her attacker that what he was trying to do was a sin… in effect, she was trying to stop HIM from sinning, warning him that he would go to Hell. He lived to testify to this at her canonization proceedings.

I think that is a very important point. Her concern was for preserving his soul as much as preserving her virginity.

thank you,that alway has been my impression too.

 

[robwar]

Definition of dignity: The state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect.
I don’t see how a woman loses her right to be honoured or respected when she is raped.

I’ve no idea what Penn State is. I do not support rape; I couldn’t be more against rape - it’s something I’m VERY passionate about.

The existance of ‘Martyrs of Purity’ agrees that it is better to be dead than raped - as I’ve proven above.

EDIT: It’s because in this day and age, most people worship sex more than they worship Christ.]

Constenting to sex is completely different to being raped.

the very act of rape, male or female rips apart at the core and dignity of the personhood.
none of these martyrs of purity wanted to be abused and there is nothing wrong with dying to defend yourself against abuse.

 

[AnemoneNarcisus]

the very act of rape, male or female rips apart at the core and dignity of the personhood.
none of these martyrs of purity wanted to be abused and there is nothing wrong with dying to defend yourself against abuse.

I’m not even arguing that. I’m arguing the meaning of ‘Martyr’.

And, again, ‘dignity’ really isn’t a fitting word.

 

[anp1215]

Well, she didn’t say kill me, from what I remember.

She resisted and begged him not to do this horrible thing and he stabbed her right?

Correct. She resisted and fought her attacker, and showed concern for HIS soul by telling him he was committing a sin by doing this to her. And on her deathbed, she forgave him for what he did. Her attacker had a vision of her after many unrepentant years, repented, and was present at her canonization.

Why anyone would think this amazing child was anything but saintly is beyond me.

 

[SMA_12]

So they blame Maria, for the sin of her rapist/murderer? That is a rather ignorant argument.
But, hey, if there is any doubt Maria did the right thing, she is in Heaven now because of the choice she made!
But just as Maria forgave her killer, we can forgive the lost souls making this absurd claim, and of course pray for them.

 

[anp1215]

I’m not even arguing that. I’m arguing the meaning of ‘Martyr’.

And, again, ‘dignity’ really isn’t a fitting word.

I get your question, it seems that others are confused by what you are asking.

I think she is a martyr because she died trying to protect the soul of her attacker, based on the things she was yelling at him while he was trying to rape her. She showed concern not only for her own virginity but for his soul. That’s how I see it.

 

[SonCatcher]

The existance of ‘Martyrs of Purity’ agrees that it is better to be dead than raped - as I’ve proven above.

“Dead” is a rather subjective term around here. Maria Goretti is more alive than you or me since she is among the saints with God.

As St. Paul wrote: to live is Christ, to die is gain.

(edit)
Likewise, consider the words of the Savior: Do not fear those who can kill the body but not the soul. Be afraid, rather, of the One who can destroy both body and soul.

 

[AnemoneNarcisus]

I get your question, it seems that others are confused by what you are asking.

I think she is a martyr because she died trying to protect the soul of her attacker, based on the things she was yelling at him while he was trying to rape her. She showed concern not only for her own virginity but for his soul. That’s how I see it.

But that doesn’t explain why there are at least two other woman who are also called Martyrs of Purity, and - from what I know - there is absolutely no evidence that they were trying to protect the soul of their attacker. The natural assumption to come to is that they were trying to protect themselves.

EDIT: ****“Dead” is a rather subjective term around here. Maria Goretti is more alive than you or me since she is among the saints with God.

As St. Paul wrote: to live is Christ, to die is gain.****

But, what did Maria gain by dying at eleven years old that she wouldn’t have gained if she had died at 101 years old?

EDIT: ****(edit)
Likewise, consider the words of the Savior: Do not fear those who can kill the body but not the soul. Be afraid, rather, of the One who can destroy both body and soul. ****

So… if Maria had been raped, God would have destroyed her soul?

EDIT: Sorry, my post was a bit muddled up. Think I’ve fixed it.

 

[SonCatcher]

But, what did Maria gain by dying at eleven years old that she wouldn’t have gained if she had died at 101 years old?

Exaltation

 

[AnemoneNarcisus]

Exaltation

What worth does that have? And why would she have not recieved the same thing if she had ‘lived’ for many more years?

 

[Sneaux]

X_X It doesn’t really matter what “Could have happened” because it didn’t, she did what she did, and it was exactly the way God planned it.

 

[AnemoneNarcisus]

X_X It doesn’t really matter what “Could have happened” because it didn’t, she did what she did, and it was exactly the way God planned it.

God planned for her to be murdered? And nobody has answered my question about the meaning of ‘Martyr of Purity’ yet.

 

[Sneaux]

God planned for her to be murdered? And nobody has answered my question about the meaning of ‘Martyr of Purity’ yet.

Yes. God knows exactly what’s going to happen, he has everyone’s life planned out exactly how he wants it. Some are murdered, and some die gently in their sleep. It’s life.