Saint Paul and Islam

[viper78912]

I can see you don’t claim Jerusalem as your mother place like in Psalm 87 (86)!!! Therefore you can’t fathom what’s at stake there!!
It’s rather easy for you to make this comment.

I respect your feelings and sentiments.
Incidentally, during the 1947 India Pakistan Partition riots and turmoil, my father disappeared forever into thin air.
An Urdu song says that all through life every human being carries a sad spot in the heart that only God Can Touch and Heal.
Isaac and Ishmael were biological sons of Abraham (Genesis 16-21).
Do you think there is a solution to end this fratricidal war?

 

[planten]

Is there anything in Islam about the duty to admonish sinners charitably? It would be a great thing.

Dear Lapell, I would answer your question if you could expand on it so as to make the question more clear. Thanks.

 

[Booklover]

According to who, critics who want to use them to sling mud? There is no evasion, I go by Quran only, same as Christians who go by Bible only and not all the apocryha.

The day you accept all apocrypha as true, I’ll accept Hadith. That’s fair.

You’re still using a tu quoque! Typical! We are not discussing the apocrypha! You’re obfuscating the issue by bringing them up and doing exactly what the article stated, completely dismissing anything unpalatable about Muhammad! How do you know these things are not true? Why are the hadiths kept so meticulously by Muslim scholars? Why haven’t they been trashed if they’re not true? After all, they were not written by Muhammad’s detractors, but by his own followers!

Denial, denial, Muslims live in denial and you’ve proven that everything that article states is true!

Vickie

 

[Lapell]

Why is it any more irrational than Christians who dismiss apocrypha about Jesus killing playmates in a temper tantrum, and all the other ludicrous things they say? Do you accept every bit of trash that comes along about Jesus, just because the writings say some pal of his claimed it was true?
Sounds like a double standard to me.

This is rather twisted. Apocrypha not only are not considered inspired by God, but some of them, if not all, might not even be true.

 

[ralphinal]

I respect your feelings and sentiments.
Incidentally, during the 1947 India Pakistan Partition riots and turmoil, my father disappeared forever into thin air.
An Urdu song says that all through life every human being carries a sad spot in the heart that only God Can Touch and Heal.
Isaac and Ishmael were biological sons of Abraham (Genesis 16-21).
Do you think there is a solution to end this fratricidal war?

You have my prayers.

Personally, I do not think that there is a solution that can come from men. Many people hold on to a desire for vengance, even if the cause was years ago. Some even hold it for generations. This is one example of it to the extreme. You add to it conflict over land and resources, different understandings of how to worship God, and socio-economic forces that place some into poverty that there seems to be no escape from. Even if everyone converted to Islam, you still have major secterian violence. Only God can solve the problems. That is the only hope.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

This is rather twisted. Apocrypha not only are not considered inspired by God, but some of them, if not all, might not even be true.

Well that’s how I feel about Hadith, so then I shouldn’t have Hadith forced on me anymore than I should try to force apocrypha on you. Nothing twisted in that.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

You’re still using a tu quoque! Typical! We are not discussing the apocrypha! You’re obfuscating the issue by bringing them up and doing exactly what the article stated, completely dismissing anything unpalatable about Muhammad! How do you know these things are not true? Why are the hadiths kept so meticulously by Muslim scholars? Why haven’t they been trashed if they’re not true? After all, they were not written by Muhammad’s detractors, but by his own followers!

Denial, denial, Muslims live in denial and you’ve proven that everything that article states is true!

Vickie

We’re discussing apocrypha now, you just apply your same standards about apocrypha to me and Hadith and you have your answer as to why I don’t have to accept them. If something is not my Holy Book then it’s not – not Hadith, not Mormon, not Bhagavad Gita. Nothing ominous in that.

 

[Lapell]

According to who, critics who want to use them to sling mud? There is no evasion, I go by Quran only, same as Christians who go by Bible only and not all the apocryha.
The day you accept all apocrypha as true, I’ll accept Hadith. That’s fair.

Hum! Catholic scholars certainly don’t go by the Bible alone! They also use the commentaries of the Fathers of the Church, for example saint John Chrysostom, saint Hilaire of Poitiers, saint Augustin, saint Ignatius of Antioch… must I go on? And even though some doctrines are not found explicitly, they still are there implicitly and are solid doctrine of the Christian faith. There also are the teachings of the Popes throughout the centuries, especially the encyclicals and the Apostolic letters… The Catechism of the Catholic Church, of which Father John Corapi said that all the words of it can be compressed into one word: the Eternal Word, Jesus the Christ! Solid doctrine there too! So, no, it’s not limited to just the Bible!
In some instances anyway, it could be a dangerous thing for you to go just by the Bible alone. You want to make sure that the interpretation goes according to the True Spirit of God. It’s VERY possible to go otherwise, you know! (Or maybe you don’t?)

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Hum! Catholic scholars certainly don’t go by the Bible alone!

Ok then when you start going by that other book about Jesus from Mormon let me know, maybe I’ll consider Hadith.

 

[Lapell]

Then the same thing is possible if one goes by the Koran alone, isn’t it! It can happen! Errare humanum est!!

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Then the same thing is possible if one goes by the Koran alone, isn’t it! It can happen! Errare humanum est!!

I trust myself more than anyone else to do the interpreting, I have a better track record so far.

 

[Lapell]

Ok then when you start going by that other book about Jesus from Mormon let me know, maybe I’ll consider Hadith.

Sorry, it’s not a Catholic source by any means. Don’t confuse apples with oranges…

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Sorry, it’s not a Catholic source by any means. Don’t confuse apples with oranges…

It’s Christian.

Look if I started dumping parts of the Quran you might have a reason to gripe. But no reason at all if I choose not to accept every little thing written by some Muslim, just like Catholics aren’t expected to accept everything written by some Christian. Any other expectation pushed on me is a double standard.

 

[Lapell]

I trust myself more than anyone else to do the interpreting, I have a better track record so far.

So you can’t make mistakes in matters of faith? You trust your senses more than God? If this is the case, IF this is the case… well, you are in danger, then! Unless you are God Himself, you are prone to make mistakes at least several times… unless God gave you the gift of infallibility (and only when teaching in matters of faith and morals, like our Popes since saint Peter)…

 

[FaithofAbraham]

So you can’t make mistakes in matters of faith? You trust your senses more than God? If this is the case, IF this is the case… well, you are in danger, then! Unless you are God Himself, you are prone to make mistakes at least several times… unless God gave you the gift of infallibility (and only when teaching in matters of faith and morals, like our Popes since saint Peter)…

I trust my sense enough so as not to be spoonfed interpretations of the Bible or Quran. I may agree with a lot of people, but validity of an interpretation is all about if it makes sense or not to me, rather than about the claimed authority of some other human.

 

[Lapell]

It’s Christian.

Look if I started dumping parts of the Quran you might have a reason to gripe. But no reason at all if I choose not to accept every little thing written by some Muslim, just like Catholics aren’t expected to accept everything written by some Christian. Any other expectation pushed on me is a double standard.

Mormons call themselves Christians, but unlike Christian Churches, even in the basic doctrines they went away from what the early Church taught… The Catholic Church recognizes the baptism received in most other Christian Churches, but it’s not the case with the Mormon baptism. So your example is rather lame!

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Mormons call themselves Christians, but unlike Christian Churches, even in the basic doctrines they went away from what the early Church taught… The Catholic Church recognizes the baptism received in most other Christian Churches, but it’s not the case with the Mormon baptism. So your example is rather lame!

Hadith also go away from the Quran so there you go, we’re alike in rejecting things that depart from our core beliefs.

 

[Lapell]

I trust my sense enough so as not to be spoonfed interpretations of the Bible or Quran. I may agree with a lot of people, but validity of an interpretation is all about if it makes sense or not to me, rather than about the claimed authority of some other human.

Do you just accept the things that you understand? Then how do you accept God, who is full of paradox and mystery? Aren’t there any mysteries of God which you somehow struggle with. We do struggle with a few of them, or rather we don’t understand them fully. Are you going to tell me you can comprehend and understand God fully? Congratulations then… provided that it’s the One True God you deal with!

 

[Lapell]

Hadith also go away from the Quran so there you go, we’re alike in rejecting things that depart from our core beliefs.

But unlike the Catholics, you don’t have a Sacred Tradition with solid teaching along with your Holy Book? How then can you be so sure your interpretation is right according to the spirit of Allah? What tells you THAT?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Do you just accept the things that you understand? Then how do you accept God, who is full of paradox and mystery? Aren’t there any mysteries of God which you somehow struggle with. We do struggle with a few of them, or rather we don’t understand them fully. Are you going to tell me you can comprehend and understand God fully? Congratulations then… provided that it’s the One True God you deal with!

I understand God well enough to have a compact belief.

The first Adam cursed all his children with death by accepting Satan, with the promise of David the last Adam Jesus is Messiah (bread) who brings the New Covenant (wine), and all who accept him and repent of sin (baptism) can eat from the Tree of Life again, ending Adam’s curse and defeating Satan.

Pretty simple.