Saints in Catholic Church not biblical

[fbl9]

Then it is true that in order to be a Catholic you must pray to Mary and the saints. Correct?

Rather you must beleive that such prayers are efficent.Whether you use the aid of the saints is your personal choice.

 

[fbl9]

My problem is that I thought he was referring to private devotions, since that is usually what we are talking about with such subjects. I probably contributed to the comnfusion

That’s what it seemed to me as well. private devotion.
together our posts are the teaching regarding saints.
one needs not to practice devotional prayers to the saints but they still need to beleive in the efficency of these prayers.

 

[fbl9]

Wait a second.

I posted this in reply to somebody else trying to explain this to me, but with no luck helping me figure it out.
I understand mass is public prayer, but you pray from your heart correct? That makes it personal prayer from the heart in common with other people praying the same prayer.

But I got confused by your post and others for and this one:
:

I’m reading my grandpas missal and Mary and the saints are prayed to in the mass all over the place. Your comment don’t make sense to me.’’

In fact that comments seems to be against from everything I study and read. I looked in grandpas missal and here is just one example of a quote taken from the mass book:

“Accept most Holy Trinity this offering which we are making to Thee in remembrance of the passion resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ Our Lord and in honor of blessed Mary ever virgin blessed John the baptist, the holy apostles Peter and Paul and of these and of all the saints that it may add to their honor and aid our salvation and may they deign to intercede in heaven for us who cherish their memory on earth. Through the same Christ our Lord. Amen”

Therefore, I don’t have to cherish saints memory because that would be devotion to them. And I don’t have to be believe it will aid our salvation because I don’t have to pray to them for interceding in heaving for us.

That seems to conflict with the saying I don’t have to have devotion or prayers to Mary and the saints. Since these kinds of prayers are said in every mass, which is suppose to be prayed by me in common with the church, is it correct that if I omit participation in parts of mass prayers, I can still be Catholic?

The prayer you quoted is said by the priest not you.You give your assent to the prayer with the response “Blessed be God forever”.
It is writtten paraphrased. “the evil man will be forgotten but the memory of the just will go on” proverbs. if i remember correctly. Cherishing is not deovtion, you are grateful to God for having the examples of these persons living the Faith.
You must beleive they(saints) can be an aid in your salvation, but your salvation is dependent on you using the aid that can be gotten from devotional prayers.

 

[AmosTown]

The prayer you quoted is said by the priest not you.You give your assent to the prayer with the response “Blessed be God forever”.
It is writtten paraphrased. “the evil man will be forgotten but the memory of the just will go on” proverbs. if i remember correctly. Cherishing is not deovtion, you are grateful to God for having the examples of these persons living the Faith.
You must beleive they(saints) can be an aid in your salvation, but your salvation is dependent on you using the aid that can be gotten from devotional prayers.

Are you saying then that Catholics don’t have to pray the mass with the priest? Catholics can go to mass and not pray the prayers the priest prays?

This quote below is in my grandpa’s missal. Is the quote below not true? I’m really confused.

“The Holy Mass [The Divine Liturgy] is a prayer itself, even the highest prayer that exists. It is the Sacrifice, dedicated by our Redeemer at the Cross, and repeated every day on the Altar. If you wish to hear Mass as it should be heard, you must follow with eye, heart, and mouth all that happens at the Altar. Further, you must pray with the Priest the holy words said by him, in the Name of Christ and which Christ says by him. You have to associate your heart with the holy feelings which are contained in these words and in this manner you ought to follow all that happens on the Altar. When acting in this way you have prayed Holy Mass.”

– His Holiness, Pope Saint Pius X

 

[pablope]

Are you saying then that Catholics don’t have to pray the mass with the priest? Catholics can go to mass and not pray the prayers the priest prays?

This quote below is in my grandpa’s missal. Is the quote below not true? I’m really confused.

“The Holy Mass [The Divine Liturgy] is a prayer itself, even the highest prayer that exists. It is the Sacrifice, dedicated by our Redeemer at the Cross, and repeated every day on the Altar. If you wish to hear Mass as it should be heard, you must follow with eye, heart, and mouth all that happens at the Altar. Further, you must pray with the Priest the holy words said by him, in the Name of Christ and which Christ says by him. You have to associate your heart with the holy feelings which are contained in these words and in this manner you ought to follow all that happens on the Altar. When acting in this way you have prayed Holy Mass.”

– His Holiness, Pope Saint Pius X

I think what fb9 and PO are trying to inform you…is there is a difference between personal devotions and community prayers, and you are confusing both.

Private devotions are the novenas…which are optional.

A community prayer, the Mass, the Benediction…we all pray together and give assent as part of the community.

Hope this helps clarify.

 

[ahs]

It is VERY Biblical!

For example,** Heb 12:1-5** Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely,[a] and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the sake of* the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 Consider him who endured such hostility against himself from sinners,[c] so that you may not grow weary or lose heart. 4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.** 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as children—

“My child, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
or lose heart when you are punished by him;

Other verses that may be helpful:
Rom 15:30 - join me by your prayers to God onmy behalf
Col 4:3; 1Thess 5:25 - pray for us
2Th 1:11 - we always pray for you
2Th 3:1 - pray for us
Eph 6:18-19 - making supplication for all of us
Tob 12:12 - angel presents prayer to God
Rev 5:8 - angel offers prayers of the holy ones of God
Mk 12:26-27 - He is God of the living, not of the dead
Mk 9:4 - Jesus converses with Moses and Elijah
Rev 6:9 - martyrs under teh altar want earthly vindication
Lk 16:19-30 departed rich man intercedes for brothers
Rev 20:4 - saw teh souls of those beheaded
Wis 3:1-6 - the souls of the just are in the Hands of God
Mt 18:10 - angles in heaven always behold teh Face of God
1Jn 3:2 - we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is
(again…God of teh living, not of the dead…we don’t “die” when we pass on…we are fully alive…part of that great cloud of witnesses…)

This is not an exhaustive list…just a sample.*

 

[AmosTown]

I think what fb9 and PO are trying to inform you…is there is a difference between personal devotions and community prayers, and you are confusing both.

Private devotions are the novenas…which are optional.

A community prayer, the Mass, the Benediction…we all pray together and give assent as part of the community.

Hope this helps clarify.

It doesn’t clear things up because I asked the question “do Catholics have to pray to Mary and the saints” and people on this forum say “No”.

I was taught that praying has to come from the heart? Is it just repeating of words that you might not agree with or believe in? Really this is the most confusing batch of answers to me.

You praying prayers at mass is a different way of praying in private? I understand it as a community of members praying the same prayer from their own heart

 

[AmosTown]

It is VERY Biblical!

For example,** Heb 12:1-5** Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely,[a] and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the sake of** the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 Consider him who endured such hostility against himself from sinners,[c] so that you may not grow weary or lose heart. 4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.** 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as children—

“My child, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
or lose heart when you are punished by him;

Other verses that may be helpful:
Rom 15:30 - join me by your prayers to God onmy behalf
Col 4:3; 1Thess 5:25 - pray for us
2Th 1:11 - we always pray for you
2Th 3:1 - pray for us
Eph 6:18-19 - making supplication for all of us
Tob 12:12 - angel presents prayer to God
Rev 5:8 - angel offers prayers of the holy ones of God
Mk 12:26-27 - He is God of the living, not of the dead
Mk 9:4 - Jesus converses with Moses and Elijah
Rev 6:9 - martyrs under teh altar want earthly vindication
Lk 16:19-30 departed rich man intercedes for brothers
Rev 20:4 - saw teh souls of those beheaded
Wis 3:1-6 - the souls of the just are in the Hands of God
Mt 18:10 - angles in heaven always behold teh Face of God
1Jn 3:2 - we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is
(again…God of teh living, not of the dead…we don’t “die” when we pass on…we are fully alive…part of that great cloud of witnesses…)

This is not an exhaustive list…just a sample.

That is not what I am asking. I asked as simple question and no one will give me a direct answer. And that is beginning to make me believe that maybe the Catholic church has secret cult teachings like I’ve been told.

I want an answer. Do you have to pray to saints and Mary to be a Catholic? Why won’t anybody answer my question?

This persons quote says No you don’t have to:
po18guy;10268086:

We need not have a single devotion to her - ever - to be a Catholic in good standing.

 

[fbl9]

:

I’m reading my grandpas missal and Mary and the saints are prayed to in the mass all over the place. Your comment don’t make sense to me.’’

“Accept most Holy Trinity this offering which we are making to Thee in remembrance of the passion resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ Our Lord and in honor of blessed Mary ever virgin blessed John the baptist, the holy apostles Peter and Paul and of these and of all the saints that it may add to their honor and aid our salvation and may they deign to intercede in heaven for us who cherish their memory on earth. Through the same Christ our Lord. Amen”

Therefore, I don’t have to cherish saints memory because that would be devotion to them. And I don’t have to be believe it will aid our salvation because I don’t have to pray to them for interceding in heaving for us.

To whom is this prayer addressed to? The most Holy Trinity,not to the saints.
nor is asking for their intercession specifically.

since you do not cherish the memories of the saints they aren’t going to pray for you. But that should not be an impediment for you to beleive that the saints will intercede for those that do cherish them.
You are required to beleive that they can interecede.
Also a missal isn’t a study guide.
The quote you take from Pious x does say holy words, which i assume to mean the words of concencaration, not every word uttered by the priest.
in fact this is the first i have heard of one “needing” to say everything the priest says.

 

[po18guy]

That is not what I am asking. I asked as simple question and no one will give me a direct answer. And that is beginning to make me believe that maybe the Catholic church has secret cult teachings like I’ve been told. I want an answer. Do you have to pray to saints and Mary to be a Catholic? Why won’t anybody answer my question?

Because you are not asking honest questions. Your question is phrased so as to confuse. I know who the source of confusion is, and I will not play your game.

Time for you to answer a question:

Do you believe in Saints?

 

[SonCatcher]

That is not what I am asking. I asked as simple question and no one will give me a direct answer. And that is beginning to make me believe that maybe the Catholic church has secret cult teachings like I’ve been told.

I want an answer. Do you have to pray to saints and Mary to be a Catholic? Why won’t anybody answer my question?

This persons quote says No you don’t have to:

Your question has been answered. I’d be glad to address your confusion, but first I have a question:

Do you believe in the Communion of Saints? It is one of the twelve articles of the Apostles’ Creed. Even the most anti-Catholic of Protestants hold to it (though they use different terms to describe it).

 

[Ranp]

Your looking at the oral / written tradition argument where protestants believe that unless it is in scripture that it isn’t a part of God’s revelation.

It is not just tradition, it is Holy Tradition. The complete Word of God is given to us in Holy Scripture and in Holy Tradition. Holy Tradition is equal to Holy Scripture and the two are never in conflict. When one views the Bible as the only source of authority, as do the Protestants, then they are operating with only half of the Word of God.

Ran

 

[Ranp]

Do you have to pray to saints and Mary …

Below is the Hail Mary prayer that almost all Catholics say during their lives. Note that the first part of the prayer is just acknowledging who Mary is, the human mother of Jesus Christ, ie God made flesh. A most significant line in the prayer is where Mary is asked to pray for us. It is very clear to Catholics that in the prayer we are not worshiping Mary, such worship is reserved for the Holy Trinity alone. Likewise, when Catholics pray to saints we are not worshiping the saints, we are only asking the saints to pray for us. This is not unlike me asking everyone on this forum to pray for your understanding of this most simple concept that has been a part of the Catholic Church for the last 2,000 years.

Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

 

[AmosTown]

Your question has been answered. I’d be glad to address your confusion, but first I have a question:

Do you believe in the Communion of Saints? It is one of the twelve articles of the Apostles’ Creed. Even the most anti-Catholic of Protestants hold to it (though they use different terms to describe it).

There is a dilemma. Some on this forum have said “Yes” you must pray to Mary and the saints at least once per week at Mass.

pray - : entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea

Others say “No” you never ever need to pray to Mary or saints to be Catholic.

Which one is correct?

 

[AmosTown]

Below is the Hail Mary prayer that almost all Catholics say during their lives. Note that the first part of the prayer is just acknowledging who Mary is, the human mother of Jesus Christ, ie God made flesh. A most significant line in the prayer is where Mary is asked to pray for us. It is very clear to Catholics that in the prayer we are not worshiping Mary, such worship is reserved for the Holy Trinity alone. Likewise, when Catholics pray to saints we are not worshiping the saints, we are only asking the saints to pray for us. This is not unlike me asking everyone on this forum to pray for your understanding of this most simple concept that has been a part of the Catholic Church for the last 2,000 years.

Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

Thanks. But I asked if it is a requirement to pray to Mary and the saints to be a Catholic.

I’ve had some on Catholic Answers say yes and others say no.

The ones that have said yes say it is required at least once per week in the mass.

 

[po18guy]

Thanks. But I asked if it is a requirement to pray to Mary and the saints to be a Catholic.

I’ve had some on Catholic Answers say yes and others say no.

The ones that have said yes say it is required at least once per week in the mass.

What is your objection? Use only the bible, as you may not use anything else. Answer, please.

 

[SonCatcher]

There is a dilemma. Some on this forum have said “Yes” you must pray to Mary and the saints at least once per week at Mass.

pray - : entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea

Others say “No” you never ever need to pray to Mary or saints to be Catholic.

Which one is correct?

I said you must answer my question before I will respond to your confusion.

Do you believe in the Communion of Saints? You may review it here if you need to.

 

[po18guy]

I said you must answer my question before I will respond to your confusion.

Do you believe in the Communion of Saints? You may review it here if you need to.

Good luck!

 

[AmosTown]

I said you must answer my question before I will respond to your confusion.

Do you believe in the Communion of Saints? You may review it here if you need to.

Why is your question more important than mine. I asked my question first

 

[SonCatcher]

Why is your question more important than mine. I asked my question first

It is foundational to understanding the purpose of our invoking of the Saints in the first place.

If you don’t understand the doctrine, that is an acceptable answer. As I said, however, it is held by all Christians. Although Protestants often use other words to describe it.