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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Can anyone show me where in scripture the Saints in Heaven are praying for us? I have read where they collect the prayers of the earthly saints and present them to the Lord. 
God Bless
God Bless
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Della
Guest
What you are really asking about it the teachings that come from the Communion of Saints.
The Catholic Church teaches, as did Christ, that the dead are not dead but alive with God (cf. Mt. 22:32).
Also, check out the Transfiguration in Luke 9. Who appears with Jesus? Two OT figures: Elijah, the Prophet, and Moses, the Lawgiver. And what do they do? They talk to Jesus about what he was about to suffer in Jerusalem. Now, how would they know about that if they were out of the loop “dead” or “asleep?”
It is obvious that if the dead know what is going on here amongst the living, then they can pray for us, and would want to pray for us especially since their prayers can no longer be tainted by self-interest or worldly concerns.
The Catholic Church teaches, as did Christ, that the dead are not dead but alive with God (cf. Mt. 22:32).
Also, check out the Transfiguration in Luke 9. Who appears with Jesus? Two OT figures: Elijah, the Prophet, and Moses, the Lawgiver. And what do they do? They talk to Jesus about what he was about to suffer in Jerusalem. Now, how would they know about that if they were out of the loop “dead” or “asleep?”
It is obvious that if the dead know what is going on here amongst the living, then they can pray for us, and would want to pray for us especially since their prayers can no longer be tainted by self-interest or worldly concerns.
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Genesis315
Guest
Rev. 5:8 And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures, and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints:
Here of course, the word “saints” is the broader use meaning all of us and the “ancients” would be what we call canonized saints.
Here of course, the word “saints” is the broader use meaning all of us and the “ancients” would be what we call canonized saints.
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Philena
Guest
You might be referring to these passages in Revelation:
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
I do see the Holy Angels and the heavenly Saints collecting these prayers(Rev 8;3-4 and Rev 5;8) which come from earthly saints being presented. I still do not see them doing the actual prayers,just the presenting.There is a difference I believe. God Bless
God Bless
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arieh0310
Guest
How does one collect prayers? Are they scattered about in heaven and God needs His angels and saints to sweep them up for Him?I do see the Holy Angels and the heavenly Saints collecting these prayers(Rev 8;3-4 and Rev 5;8) which come from earthly saints being presented. I still do not see them doing the actual prayers,just the presenting.There is a difference I believe.
Seems to me that the passage is illustrating a distinctly Catholic teaching. The belivers on earth are asking the saints and angels for intercession, since the angels and saints have no power of thier own they present them to God on the believer’s behalf.
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Honestly I don,t know how they collect them.Its all done supernatural.The fact that they are collecting them is helping us,but its not their prayers its ours
God Bless.
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cyprian
Guest
saints in heaven recieve our offerings/penances/prayers and present them (pray) to God on our behalf. as Jesus presented his offering of sacrifice to the Father(the Father had to accept it) that we might be saved, we too can offer prayers for others or ourselves that we might recieve the help that God knows we need, from the merits of the saints who came before us (they) can plead(pray) on our behalf. God’s holy transmission of love(a love we don’t understand) finds it’s perfection in and through the saints in heaven who glorify God in all they do, perfection in charity to ask His help for us as charity is the first step to holiness. jUST MY THOUGHTSHonestly I don,t know how they collect them.Its all done supernatural.The fact that they are collecting them is helping us,but its not their prayers its ours
PEACE AND LOVE
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Pax
Guest
SPOKENWORD,
The most apt scritural passage describing heavenly intercession by a saint is found in 2 Maccabees 15:11-16. The passage reads as follows:
“Having armed each one of them not so much with the safety given by shield and lance as with that confidence which springs from noble language, he encouraged them all by describing to them a convincing dream, a vision, as it were. What he had seen was this: Onias, the former high priest, that paragon of men, modest of bearing and gentle of manners, suitably eloquent and trained from boyhood in the practice of every virtue, Onias was stretching out his hands and praying for the whole Jewish community. Next, there appeared a man equally remarkable for his great age and dignity and invested with a marvellous and impressive air of majesty. Onias began to speak: “This is a man”, he said, “who loves his brothers and prays much for the people and the holy city, Jeremiah, the prophet of God.” Jeremiah then stretched out his right hand and presented Judas with a golden sword, saying as he gave it, `Take this holy sword as a gift from God; with it you will shatter the enemy.”
The most apt scritural passage describing heavenly intercession by a saint is found in 2 Maccabees 15:11-16. The passage reads as follows:
“Having armed each one of them not so much with the safety given by shield and lance as with that confidence which springs from noble language, he encouraged them all by describing to them a convincing dream, a vision, as it were. What he had seen was this: Onias, the former high priest, that paragon of men, modest of bearing and gentle of manners, suitably eloquent and trained from boyhood in the practice of every virtue, Onias was stretching out his hands and praying for the whole Jewish community. Next, there appeared a man equally remarkable for his great age and dignity and invested with a marvellous and impressive air of majesty. Onias began to speak: “This is a man”, he said, “who loves his brothers and prays much for the people and the holy city, Jeremiah, the prophet of God.” Jeremiah then stretched out his right hand and presented Judas with a golden sword, saying as he gave it, `Take this holy sword as a gift from God; with it you will shatter the enemy.”
R
Reformed_Rob
Guest
Another example is given in the book of Tobit:
Tobit 12:11-15
“I will not conceal anything from you, I have said, ‘It is good to guard the secret of a king, but gloriously to reveal the works of God.’ And** so, when you and your daughter-in-law Sarah prayed, I brought a reminder of your prayer before the Holy One**; and when you buried the dead, I was likewise present with you. When you did not hesitate to rise and … So now God sent me to heal you and your daughter-in-law Sarah. I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints and enter into the presence of the glory of the Holy One.”
If you have not done so, you can read the book of Tobit, it’s not long, and get the context. Basically, God sent the angel Raphael (in the form of a man) to help Tobias out as he was on an errand for his dad, Tobit, and also in danger of a demon from the woman he ended up marrying.
Tobit 12:11-15
“I will not conceal anything from you, I have said, ‘It is good to guard the secret of a king, but gloriously to reveal the works of God.’ And** so, when you and your daughter-in-law Sarah prayed, I brought a reminder of your prayer before the Holy One**; and when you buried the dead, I was likewise present with you. When you did not hesitate to rise and … So now God sent me to heal you and your daughter-in-law Sarah. I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints and enter into the presence of the glory of the Holy One.”
If you have not done so, you can read the book of Tobit, it’s not long, and get the context. Basically, God sent the angel Raphael (in the form of a man) to help Tobias out as he was on an errand for his dad, Tobit, and also in danger of a demon from the woman he ended up marrying.
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Church_Militant
Guest
One thing that no one has mentioned is Hebrews 12:1 which says:
1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us and persevere in running the race that lies before us
I see here a great cloud of witnesses (enumerated somewhat in Hebrews 11 as well as the things they went through for the faith) and an exhortation for us to run our race well because of them. Have you EVER seen a race where the fans (“witnesses”) just sat there stoically? Can anyone really imagine that those holy saints who have finished their race would not be seriously aware and interested in our races? Especially since it is a race with such eternal consequences for other members of the Body of Christ?
Pax tecum,
1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us and persevere in running the race that lies before us
I see here a great cloud of witnesses (enumerated somewhat in Hebrews 11 as well as the things they went through for the faith) and an exhortation for us to run our race well because of them. Have you EVER seen a race where the fans (“witnesses”) just sat there stoically? Can anyone really imagine that those holy saints who have finished their race would not be seriously aware and interested in our races? Especially since it is a race with such eternal consequences for other members of the Body of Christ?
Pax tecum,
F
fellicia
Guest
Do you ever ask someone to pray for you? Well its the same thing why can not someone even more alive than you pray for you also?
There was a good quote on here like a year ago al see if i can find something similar in my bible.
x x x
There was a good quote on here like a year ago al see if i can find something similar in my bible.
x x x
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allhers
Guest
They are alive in Christ, do you think that they quit praying and caring about others when they are in heaven? I would think that they even more so would pray for us to “run the race to the finish.”
Do you think that if you are in heaven that you are no longer going to praise and pray? How do you think they “collect the prayers” that you are asking about?
Revelation is the Mass, and all the Martyr’s, the Holy Angels, the Blessed Mother, the Saints are present, right there with us, praising and praying to God, all the prayers of the Catholic Church are directed to God (in Him, with Him and through Him),…we enter into the Mass. Next time you go to Mass, listen to the prayers.
Do you think that if you are in heaven that you are no longer going to praise and pray? How do you think they “collect the prayers” that you are asking about?
Revelation is the Mass, and all the Martyr’s, the Holy Angels, the Blessed Mother, the Saints are present, right there with us, praising and praying to God, all the prayers of the Catholic Church are directed to God (in Him, with Him and through Him),…we enter into the Mass. Next time you go to Mass, listen to the prayers.
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GregoryPalamas
Guest
How so? Isn’t that what is done in intercessory prayers?I do see the Holy Angels and the heavenly Saints collecting these prayers(Rev 8;3-4 and Rev 5;8) which come from earthly saints being presented. I still do not see them doing the actual prayers,just the presenting.There is a difference I believe.
Dan L
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Hi Pax,none of my bibles contain either Maccabees or Tobit. I do see Angels and Saints worshipping,singing and praising God but no mention of them praying. Maybe this is a question that only will be answered when we arrive. Only God knows what my duties are.There are alot of things that are happening in heaven that we know nothing about.
God Bless
M
Mickey
Guest
Bummer.
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Della
Guest
We do not have to wait until we die to know that certain things are true. The vast experience of the Church, which includes what is written in the Bible but is not limited to it (Jesus never said he would give us a book in which all we would ever know about matters of faith and morals would be found or limited to that book, you know…none of my bibles contain either Maccabees or Tobit. I do see Angels and Saints worshipping,singing and praising God but no mention of them praying. Maybe this is a question that only will be answered when we arrive. Only God knows what my duties are.There are alot of things that are happening in heaven that we know nothing about.
). Jesus gave us the Church. He declared that he would establish his Church which would withstand the gates of hell and be led into all truth by the Holy Spirit. No mention of an all-encompassing book mentioned.The Bible is a part of the Sacred Tradition handed down from Christ to his Apostles. The Church came first and then the NT. That is significant. It is the Church which decides matters of faith and morals with the Sacred Scripture as support and witness, but it is not limited to searching out verses or passages before making prayerful decisions consistent with the teaching of Christ and the Apostles.
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GregoryPalamas
Guest
What do you think “worshipping, singing, and praying” are?Hi Pax,none of my bibles contain either Maccabees or Tobit. I do see Angels and Saints worshipping,singing and praising God but no mention of them praying. Maybe this is a question that only will be answered when we arrive. Only God knows what my duties are.There are alot of things that are happening in heaven that we know nothing about.
Dan L
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Church_Militant
Guest
That’s pretty easy to remedy…why dont you? You’re an NIV kinda guy I’m thinkin’ so a good NAB study Bible or RSV-CE would be a fine present to yourself.
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Pax
Guest
SPOKENWORD,
Maybe connecting some NT verses that are in all Christian bibles will be of some help here as well. Together they make for a compelling case. Speaking of bibles…if you get a printing of the original 1611 edition KJV you will have a non-Catholic bible that contains the Deuterocanonical books.
Anyway, in Luke 15:7 it says:
“Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.”
Romans 8:38-39 says:
"For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Eph 6:18 says:
Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,"
Taken together with all of the other verses that have been quoted in other posts we can draw on logic to see that the saints in heaven are more likely to be praying for us than not praying for us.
First of all, every saved Christian whether they be living or deceased is alive in Christ and are forever members of the body of Christ. Eph 5:25-27 says "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. This Church, the body of Christ, clearly refers to every saved Christian that has and will ever live. This connection is made again in Col 2:19 where reference is made to “holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.”
So death does not separate from Jesus. We are part of his body now and will be so after we die. The saints and angels in heaven apparently rejoice whenever a sinner repents. They apparently have a desire to see this happen. They must be anticipating and must be aware when a sinner repents in order to have joy in response to the event. We, as Christians on earth, are to pray at all times in the Spirit. In heaven the “souls of just men made perfect” [Hebrew 12:23] are fully in the Spirit and in Jesus. Not only that, but scripture tells us that we will be like angels[Matt 22:30]. Moreover, we have guardian angels that are interested in our welfare[Matt 18:10].
If we can entertain angels and be unaware [Heb 13:2], and if angels rejoice when we repent, and if men are like angels in heaven, then it is reasonable to believe that the saints are praying for us. Moreover it is difficult to imagine that they aren’t praying for us. Afterall, they carry our prayers to the altar in golden bowls just as the angel then takes the prayers of the saints and offers them “upon the altar” to God in Rev 8:3-4.
The connections between heavenly saints and angels is simply too strong to ignore. Angels are messengers. Heavenly saints surely share some of this activity as evidenced in Revelation, and they clearly rejoice when a sinner repents. Moreover, 1 Cor 12:24-26 hammers home the meaning of unity in the body in a way that has a real bearing on your question. It says, “But God has so composed the body, giving the greater honor to the inferior part, that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.” Believe me, the saints in heaven are all pulling for us and cheering us on as we run the race. This is just another beautiful part of what it means to be a member of the body of Christ where not even death will separate us, and where we all care for one another. We love and pray for our brothers in this life and beyond and they pray for us. We are one body.
Maybe connecting some NT verses that are in all Christian bibles will be of some help here as well. Together they make for a compelling case. Speaking of bibles…if you get a printing of the original 1611 edition KJV you will have a non-Catholic bible that contains the Deuterocanonical books.
Anyway, in Luke 15:7 it says:
“Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.”
Romans 8:38-39 says:
"For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Eph 6:18 says:
Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,"
Taken together with all of the other verses that have been quoted in other posts we can draw on logic to see that the saints in heaven are more likely to be praying for us than not praying for us.
First of all, every saved Christian whether they be living or deceased is alive in Christ and are forever members of the body of Christ. Eph 5:25-27 says "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. This Church, the body of Christ, clearly refers to every saved Christian that has and will ever live. This connection is made again in Col 2:19 where reference is made to “holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.”
So death does not separate from Jesus. We are part of his body now and will be so after we die. The saints and angels in heaven apparently rejoice whenever a sinner repents. They apparently have a desire to see this happen. They must be anticipating and must be aware when a sinner repents in order to have joy in response to the event. We, as Christians on earth, are to pray at all times in the Spirit. In heaven the “souls of just men made perfect” [Hebrew 12:23] are fully in the Spirit and in Jesus. Not only that, but scripture tells us that we will be like angels[Matt 22:30]. Moreover, we have guardian angels that are interested in our welfare[Matt 18:10].
If we can entertain angels and be unaware [Heb 13:2], and if angels rejoice when we repent, and if men are like angels in heaven, then it is reasonable to believe that the saints are praying for us. Moreover it is difficult to imagine that they aren’t praying for us. Afterall, they carry our prayers to the altar in golden bowls just as the angel then takes the prayers of the saints and offers them “upon the altar” to God in Rev 8:3-4.
The connections between heavenly saints and angels is simply too strong to ignore. Angels are messengers. Heavenly saints surely share some of this activity as evidenced in Revelation, and they clearly rejoice when a sinner repents. Moreover, 1 Cor 12:24-26 hammers home the meaning of unity in the body in a way that has a real bearing on your question. It says, “But God has so composed the body, giving the greater honor to the inferior part, that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.” Believe me, the saints in heaven are all pulling for us and cheering us on as we run the race. This is just another beautiful part of what it means to be a member of the body of Christ where not even death will separate us, and where we all care for one another. We love and pray for our brothers in this life and beyond and they pray for us. We are one body.
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