Salvation for Protestants?

[clfire]

From “Summa Theologica”

Q84 Article 5: Whether This Sacrament (Penance)Is Necessary for Salvation?

“First, absolutely. Secondly, on the supposition. A thing is absolutely necessary for salvation, if no one can obtain salvation without it…it is necessary for the sinner’s salvation that sin be taken away from him; which cannot be done without the sacrament of Penance, wherein the power of Christ’s Passion operates through the priest’s absolution and acts of the penitent, who co-operates with grace unto the destruction of his sin.”

Question: So God loving Protestants cannot be saved?

 

[TomD123]

No…of course not.
There is more to say on this but here are some basics:

If they are baptized, they are members of the Church in virtue of their baptism until they become fully culpable for their heresy. So if they do not and they remain in the state of grace with help from the grace of God then they do not need the Sacrament because they have no serious sins to confess.

If they do commit mortal sin perfect contrition with a desire for the sacrament (at least implicit) will suffice for those who are unable due to no fault of their own to recieve the sacrament.

 

[Bballer32]

Salvation outside the Church.

1.) God is the final Judge.

2.) If the person has full knowledge of Jesus Christ and His Church and continuously denies to enter it or accuses it, their chances are probably not good at all. (Again it’s God’s Judgement not ours. We are just using simple logic and reasoning for this question. AND I’ll be more than happy to discuss the simple logic on this. )

3.) if the person has no knowledge of Jesus Christ and His Church, but continues to seek for truth through the goodness of his heart can be saved.

 

[nickybr38]

A sin cannot be mortal without full knowledge.

Therefore, Protestants are not committing mortal sin.

Therefore, they can absolutely be saved outside of the Church so long as they try to live moral lives.

That’s just my humble opinion though.

 

[SaintPatrick333]

If protestants can be saved by remaining in man made religions than I guess all Catholics are saved automatically by default. Otherwise, it would greatly benefit us for “not” being Catholic. Since it’d be easier to get into Heaven. Obviously we know that can’t be true. In the end, God will be the judge of us all. But He also told us Himself that the road is narrow and few who walk it will make it. That should make even us Catholics, who alone possess fullness of the Truth, be fearful for our own salvation. Mortal sin condemns us all equally. Most protestants don’t acknowledge the existence of mortal sin. Many erroneously believe in the heresy of sola fide, which goes hand in hand with the heretical system of belief that is “once saved always saved”. Most protestants try their hardest to live what they understand to be a Christian life. That will go a long way to their credit when they should be judged. However, extra ecclesiam nulla salus (no salvation outside the Church). That is dogmatic. Only those fully ignorant of Christ’s Truth in His One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, can be saved for not being part of it. Most protestants can not claim this ignorance since they learn what Christ taught His Catholics, through dialogue with us (oftentimes confrontational, in my experience). Even though we can’t say that ignorance will save them, at least not with any degree of certainty, we do trust in God’s greater wisdom and mercy. Most protestants know enough of what we Catholics believe that they understand the Truth. Most of them will harden their hearts and close their minds before entering conversations, thus closing themselves off to the Truth. These are people who know the Truth but actively choose to deny it because “their” way is better. These people deny Christ by denying His Church. We can’t say definitively that they are going to hell, but all signs are pointing to a bad time come judgement day. But that will be nobody’s fault but their own. If any of us wind up in hell, it’s because we chose to go there by how we lived our lives. It’s a safe bet that anyone who arrogantly thinks they are saved no matter what, their chances might not be so hot. That is obviously the sin of pride. One I’ve encountered many times in my apologetics attempts. Worst still, the small number of the more vocal evangelical protestants who seem to believe that the Blessed Mother is the great whore of babylon. You call Jesus Christ’s mother the great whore? The very same woman whom He loves more than any of us? Gooooood luck You’ll need it.

 

[Bballer32]

A sin cannot be mortal without full knowledge.

Therefore, Protestants are not committing mortal sin.

Therefore, they can absolutely be saved outside of the Church so long as they try to live moral lives.

That’s just my humble opinion though.

Protestants don’t believe in degrees of sin.

My mom’s side of the family had this discussion just a few months ago. According to them (WELS Lutheran) all sins are of the same gravity. No sin is lighter than the other and no sin is greater than the other. They believe in Sola Fide so they think confession is a joke and not necessary.

 

[nickybr38]

Protestants don’t believe in degrees of sin.

My mom’s side of the family had this discussion just a few months ago. According to them (WELS Lutheran) all sins are of the same gravity. No sin is lighter than the other and no sin is greater than the other. They believe in Sola Fide so they think confession is a joke and not necessary.

Yes, I know. I was Protestant and still struggle with understanding the difference between venial and mortal but regardless…

when I came into the church I didn’t even KNOW I had committed grave sins! I had to be shown. Which means, I hadn’t committed mortal sins.

I remember reading somewhere that if a Protestant acts against their conscience, however, that would be akin to a mortal sin.

I don’t know. I do know they are baptized into Christ so they are part of the family and most likely a great deal of them will end up in purgatory.

 

[clfire]

I would love to believe that Protestants can be saved…most of my family were baptized Catholic but have gone the Protestant route but are Christian Believers, etc…

I would like to know the official Catholic stance on this issue…Code of Cannon Law so I can read it for myself…apologetics help???

 

[Yehuda_Dion]

I don’t know. I do know they are baptized into Christ so they are part of the family and most likely a great deal of them will end up in purgatory.

According to a story I once read on the 'net, some do! Although I don’t wish to or wish to be seen as promoting or otherwise supporting the Protestant religion. I’m a cradle Catholic and to this day remain a proud knight of the Catholic faith.

 

[Yehuda_Dion]

I would love to believe that Protestants can be saved…most of my family were baptized Catholic but have gone the Protestant route but are Christian Believers, etc…

I would like to know the official Catholic stance on this issue…Code of Cannon Law so I can read it for myself…apologetics help???

I’m very sorry… but your family members are in grave danger. Once baptised Catholic, they must remain loyal. No exceptions. God won’t make exceptions for his true religion founded by Blessed Peter.

 

[TheKingdomOfGod]

So are you saying as an Anglican I will not be saved?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

So are you saying as an Anglican I will not be saved?

I think a lot of it has to do with why you’re not Catholic. However, no, no one is saying that. We’re saying that God is the final judge, but logic tells us you may have some problems.

 

[Bballer32]

So are you saying as an Anglican I will not be saved?

Let’s put it this way.

First, it’s God’s Judgement. So, we have no say in who goes to heaven or hell.

Now, let me tell you this. If the Catholic Church is truly the Church of Christ (which the chances are good that it is since we can technically point it out through history) then we can hold to the truth that the Church and the Mass are the Heavenly Banquet and Building on Earth. So, if that’s the case, then everyone in heaven will become Catholic to enter, since the Eucharist and Mass are heavenly. Therefore, not being in communion with this Heavenly feast and denying what the Foundation has put forth, you are denying Christ himself and his teachings. Basically, by not Trusting the Church, you are not Trusting God.

But again, God is the final Judge. I’m just trying to help make a little bit of sense. I’m DEFINITELY not trying to judge anyone or condemn anyone. I’m just following what the Church teaches.

 

[Bballer32]

I think a lot of it has to do with why you’re not Catholic. However, no, no one is saying that. We’re saying that God is the final judge, but logic tells us you may have some problems.

There it is

 

[TheKingdomOfGod]

Let’s put it this way.

First, it’s God’s Judgement. So, we have no say in who goes to heaven or hell.

Now, let me tell you this. If the Catholic Church is truly the Church of Christ (which the chances are good that it is since we can technically point it out through history) then we can hold to the truth that the Church and the Mass are the Heavenly Banquet and Building on Earth. So, if that’s the case, then everyone in heaven will become Catholic to enter, since the Eucharist and Mass are heavenly. Therefore, not being in communion with this Heavenly feast and denying what the Foundation has put forth, you are denying Christ himself and his teachings. Basically, by not Trusting the Church, you are not Trusting God.

But again, God is the final Judge. I’m just trying to help make a little bit of sense. I’m DEFINITELY not trying to judge anyone or condemn anyone. I’m just following what the Church teaches.

Thank you for all your replies.

But let me ask you this. The Church of England, to which I belong, sees itself as both reformed, in that it has taken on some of the Protestant reforms of the 16th century. But it also sees itself as Catholic and I quote-‘in that it views itself as part of the universal church of Jesus Christ in unbroken continuity with the early apostle’s churches.’

Does that mean I am still part of the true Church of Christ, in Catholic’s view and yours?

 

[TheKingdomOfGod]

I think a lot of it has to do with why you’re not Catholic. However, no, no one is saying that. We’re saying that God is the final judge, but logic tells us you may have some problems.

And in what way does logic tell me I may have some problems?

 

[clfire]

I FOUND THIS VERY INTERESTING !!!

Forum Elder
Prayer Warrior
Book Club Member Join Date: June 4, 2004
Location: Port Colborne, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 53,191
Religion: Catholic

Re: what’s the Catholic view of Protestants?

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This is a leaflet written by CATHOLIC TRUTH PUBLICATIONS:

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534, because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to re-marry.

If you are Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1601.

If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.

If you are Protestant Episcopelian, your religion was an offshoot of the church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1979 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as ‘Church of the Nazarene,’ ‘Pentecostal Gospel,’ ‘Holiness Church,’ Pilgrim Hoiliness Church,’ ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses,’ your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past hundred years.

If you are Roman Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by jesus Christ, the Son of god, and it is still the same Church.

I will share my experience with my brother who was raised Catholic turned Anglican, turned Calvary Gospel, turned Faith Tabernacle in another post. He believes all Catholics are going to hell…

Shoshana

 

[Bballer32]

Thank you for all your replies.

But let me ask you this. The Church of England, to which I belong, sees itself as both reformed, in that it has taken on some of the Protestant reforms of the 16th century. But it also sees itself as Catholic and I quote-‘in that it views itself as part of the universal church of Jesus Christ in unbroken continuity with the early apostle’s churches.’

Does that mean I am still part of the true Church of Christ, in Catholic’s view and yours?

Technically (and im going by the history books here) the Anglican Church is not part of the Catholic Church for this reason.

King Henry VIII disobeyed the Catholic Church and was therefore excommunicated. Excommunication leads to a separation of the Church and no longer Catholic.

Here’s a reading

Meanwhile, Parliament had forbidden all appeals to Rome and exacted the penalties of praemunire against all who introduced papal bulls into England. Parliament prohibited the Church from making any regulations (canons) without the king’s consent. It was only then that Pope Clement at last took the step of launching sentences of excommunication against Henry and Thomas Cranmer,[nb 1][nb 2] declaring at the same time the archbishop’s decree of annulment to be invalid and the marriage with Anne null. The papal nuncio was withdrawn from England and diplomatic relations with Rome were broken off.[60] Several more laws were passed in England. The Ecclesiastical Appointments Act 1534 required the clergy to elect bishops nominated by the Sovereign. The Act of Supremacy in 1534 declared that the King was “the only Supreme Head in Earth of the Church of England” and the Treasons Act 1534 made it high treason, punishable by death, to refuse to acknowledge the King as such. In response to the excommunications, the Peter’s Pence Act was passed in and it reiterated that England had “no superior under God, but only your Grace” and that Henry’s “imperial crown” had been diminished by “the unreasonable and uncharitable usurpations and exactions” of the Pope.[66]
In defiance of the Pope the Church of England was now under Henry’s control, not Rome’s. Protestant Reformers still faced persecution, particularly over objections to Henry’s annulment. Many fled abroad where they met further difficulties, including the influential William Tyndale, who was eventually executed and his body burned at King Henry’s behest. Theological and practical reforms would follow only under Henry’s successors.

So, no. The Anglican Church does hold fast to Many Catholic beliefs and rituals, but it is technically not Catholic

 

[clfire]

I am still looking for something from official Catholic Apologetics on this matter, it’s very important to me…

I do believe the Church is the one created from the teachings of Jesus and passed on by apostles, etc…I just want to know if the official Church believes that God-believing Protestants will not be saved if they repent their mortal sins directly and not through the sacrament of Penance? Surely there is some Church doctrine written to clear this up…do Protestants have to become Catholics to be saved? Is there not a yes or no answer to this? (and of course God has the last say…) I would like to hear fron theologians who could refer to actual Church law…

 

[TheKingdomOfGod]

If you are Roman Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by jesus Christ, the Son of god, and it is still the same Church.

Could you direct me to the source where Jesus founded the Catholic Church? I never knew he actually founded the Church, under Catholic teachings anyway.