Salvation outside Catholicism

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lonegreywolf20 said:
As I said, I am a formal kinda guy. Since there is no formal way to defect, I am stuck as a Catholic.
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I’m not sure I understand your reasoning. You are stuck as a Catholic due to a technical formality, based upon the church’s authority that you don’t believe is valid?
 
lonegreywolf20 said:
I believe that each of the Christian churches make up the whole true Church together. That they all bring their part of the truth to the table and that none hold the whole truth at once.
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Don’t just say it, Prove it.
 
Basically, yes.

As I said, there is some truth in each Christian church bringing that truth to the table for the full truth.

Because, I am a formal kinda guy, since there is no formal way to defect from the Catholic church, I am indeed stuck.

I realize that most do not understand, and my girlfriend said as much that most wouldn’t, but if you fully knew me, you would understand fully why I am stuck as she does.
 
I don’t think that I will. There are too many churches and too little time to do so.

No one here has to accept why I believe what I do and it is truly your decision to do so or not do so. I know why, God knows why and that is all that truly matters!
 
As I said… I realize that most do not understand, and my girlfriend said as much that most wouldn’t, but if you fully knew me, you would understand fully why I am stuck as she does.
 
I did but it cant work that way. If one only has part of a truth then they also have part of a lie. So they cant all come together to make one truth because the lies come along too.
And then we are not being led to all truth but half truths and half lies.
 
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lonegreywolf20 said:
As I said… I realize that most do not understand, and my girlfriend said as much that most wouldn’t, but if you fully knew me, you would understand fully why I am stuck as she does.
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You certainly didn’t feel stuck in the past. It’s you, not the Church.
 
Thank you all for the responses, but I have other things that I need to get done now and don’t have time to respond anymore.

I realize you all believe as you do, and I understand that belief and truly respect that belief. i just do not believe as you all do. The Catholic church is truly your home within Christianity. My true home is elsewhere within Christianity.

Have a great rest of your day as I will have a great rest of mine.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
According to Catholic teaching, if a person repents sincerely prior to their death, they will be saved
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Right. And it’s also taught that it’s extremely rare and that it is a special grace. IOW, if you’re counting on that you’re probably going to hell.
JimR-OCDS said:
So, Adolf Hitler, realizes his error before drawing his last breath, and asks God for forgiveness. According to Church teaching, he will be saved.
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Can’t say he didn’t get that grace but I don’t have any reason to think he did based on the above.
JimR-OCDS said:
However, according to the Baltimore Catechism, the Jews he murdered who were not Baptized, too bad, they’re all went to hell.
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They had the same chances as the man above. That is, not much of one according to the teaching of the Church. Soooo, convert while you have time because all of us eventually run out of that precious commodity.
JimR-OCDS said:
Is there any wonder why people reject the Church with such teaching about a merciless and hopeless God ?
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People reject it for all kinds of reasons…none of them good. It’s their eternity, they choose their destination.
 
JimmyTolder said:
There is a reason we used (cough cough pre Vatican 2 cough cough) to pray for their conversion specifically.
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Is it wrong to ask if they stopped it because they don’t want them to be saved? I mean it seems rather heartless not to pray for someone’s conversion.
 
lonegreywolf20 said:
I don’t think that I will. There are too many churches and too little time to do so.
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if you did even a modicum amount of homework, you’d see that argument falls apart before it even gets started.

Here’s a short read. Won’t take much of your time at all. Bp Ignatius was a Catholic bishop in the Catholic Church from ~69 A.D. to ~107 A,d. He was a direct disciple of St John the apostle. He wrote 6 letters to the Church in 6 locations, putting into writing what he learned DIRECTLY from the apostles, and St John in particular.

Please read these 3 letters
You mention 2 PROTESTANT GROUPS , either one you’d be happy to join.

For your information, Protestantism (regardless of stripe) is one of the great heresies in history
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lonegreywolf20:
No one here has to accept why I believe what I do and it is truly your decision to do so or not do so.
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True

HOWEVER

When the opportunity presents itself, one is to speak up and not remain silent.

Reason being,

Ez 3:17-21 Ez3:17-21 RSVCE - “Son of man, I have made you a - Bible Gateway

Ezekial describes 4 scenerios
So putting this in terms of Catholic teaching

Let’s say
A=Catholic,
B = anyone doing/thinking wrongly
Life=heaven,
Death=hell,

here’s 4 potential scenerios

“If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand.”
  1. IOW A gives B no warning. A & B are both screwed. Both die
“But if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you will have saved your life.”
  1. IOW A gives B warning. B ignores the warning. A lives B is screwed.
“if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you have not warned him, he shall die for his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand.”
  1. IOW A gives B no warning. A is screwed. B is being B and is screwed and ALSO, his good works are not remembered
"Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man not to sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he took warning; and you will have saved your life.”
  1. IOW A warns B and B listens and changes, A & B live
Therefore, putting this as God sees it

I would do all I can to be in scenerio 2 & 4 and avoid #s 1 & 3.

I did what I needed to do. 🙂
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lonegreywolf20:
I know why, God knows why, and that is all that truly matters!
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Free will makes us culpable for the choices we make
 
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lonegreywolf20 said:
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MagdalenaRita:
If you seek the truth with all your heart you will find it.
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I understand that you believe that whole truth and your home and for you it is, I truly do, but I have done that, and it solidifies my resolve even more that the Catholic church isn’t my home.

To each their own though. I believe that each of the Christian churches make up the whole true Church together. That they all bring their part of the truth to the table and that none hold the whole truth at once.
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That cannot be true at all. Truth cannot contradict truth so if the Catholic church is true, than any other belief that contradicts it is false by definition. Likewise if a protestant church was true, then the Catholic belief would be false. It is impossible for all Christian beliefs to be true as they contain contradicting beliefs.
 
Gorgias said:
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Bataar:
If someone never had the opportunity to join or never heard of the church, they can be saved due to God’s mercy.
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Ahh… then it all comes down to how you define “never had the opportunity to join”, then, doesn’t it? 😉
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It doesn’t come down to how I define it, but how God defines it. I believe, that the vast majority of non Catholics, especially mainline protestants have an opportunity to join. I could be wrong, but that’s my belief. With the age of the Internet, it’s hard to believe that anyone living in a first world country will be able to claim ignorance or lack of choice as an excuse.
 
Bataar said:
if the Catholic church is true
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That right there is the crux of it!

I do not believe that the Catholic church has the corner market on the whole truth. If you had read my post fully you would have seen where I stated, “That they all bring their part of the truth to the table and that none hold the whole truth at once.”

So, what you believe to be true, I do not when it comes to the above statement by you and other Catholics. That alone is where the conversation breaks down. Until, I or those who hold your stance believe what the other is touting, the conversation can go no where.
 
Bataar said:
Because when Paul VI closed Vatican II, he explicitly said that they did not make any of the documents Infallible.
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I do not believe it is true. The Church does not announce which of its teachings are infallible and which are not; and none of the teachings are “optional”. I believe the quote you are thinking of is that Vatican II did not set out to create any new dogma. Which means that if you believe that the Vatican II teaching on a dogmatic issue is different than the earlier teaching on that dogma, you likely are misinterpreting the earlier teaching. It certainly does not mean that a Catholic is free to ignore any Vatican II teachings.
 
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