Salvation outside the church

[PRmerger]

According to the Catholic Church, if I ignore these facts, I am ‘Invincibly Ignorant’ and thus I am saved one way or another.’

This is absolutely an incorrect assertion, St. Donatus.

The Church has never proclaimed that anyone who “ignores these facts” is "invincibly ignorant.

If you disagree with me, please provide the Church document that declares this to be so.

 

[QuickCat]

Jesus, who fulfilled the law, was a religious Jew who kept the law. Here are some of Jesus’s To Do’s:

1. Love God first (Matthew 22:37-38)
2. Love your neighbor and your enemies (John 15:12, Matthew 5:43-45)
3. Keep His commandments (John 15:10)
4. Know/Do the 10 commandments (Mark 10:19)
5. Forgive (Mark 11:25)
6. Abide in Him and bear fruit (John 15:4)
7. Let people see your good works to glorify God (Matthew 5:16)
8. Be agreeable (Matthew 5:25)
9. Get rid of stuff that causes you to sin (Matthew 5:29)
10. Let your yes mean ‘yes’ and your no mean ‘no’ (Matthew 5:34-37)
11. Don’t return evil for evil (Matthew 5:38-39)
12. Be a giving person (Matthew 5:40-42)
13. Be generous with the poor (Matthew 6:1)
14. Pray (Matthew 6:5-7 & Matthew 6:9-15)
15. Fast in secret (Matthew 6:16)
16. Store treasures in Heaven (Matthew 6:19-21)
17. Don’t worry (Matthew 6:25-26)
18. Don’t judge (Matthew 7:1-2)
19. Ask & seek (Matthew 7:7)
20. Be charitable - feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless (Matthew 25:34-36)

and last but certainly not least

1. Eat the bread and drink the cup (Luke 22:19-20)

There are many, many others. For example, there are multiple verses on having Faith and Hope - these are things that you DO…

Are you presenting the above as the gospel by which man is saved? Putting us back under the Law? I pray not. The gospel of the grace of God is not found in the 4 gospels. I have pointed out over and over that our Lord’s earthly ministry was to Israel and it was about the coming earthly kingdom promised to Israel in the Old Testament. The gospel of the grace of God is found in Paul’s epistles:

1 Cor. 15:1-4 The gospel by which you are S-A-V-E-D.
Ephesians 1:13 Upon hearing and believing this gospel you are saved and sealed.
Col. 2:10 Believers are “COMPLETE IN Him…” You can’t add to this completeness.
Col. 2:13 ALL of your trespasses have been forgiven.
Col. 2:14 He "blotted out the handwriting of ordinances which was against us.
Phil. 3:20 Believers now have our citizenship in heaven.
Eph. 1:3 We are blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places.
Eph. 1:6 We are accepted in the beloved.
Eph. 2:6 We have been raised up together and seated [positionly] in heavenly places in Christ.
Eph. 2:8,9 We have been saved by grace through faith - NOT OF WORKS - IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD.
Eph. 2:15 He has abolished in His Flesh the enmity, even the Law of Commandments
2 Cor 5:21 We have been made the righteousness of God [imputation] in Him.
All these things are DONE and there are so many more.
QC

 

[PRmerger]

Are you presenting the above as the gospel by which man is saved? Putting us back under the Law? I pray not. The gospel of the grace of God is not found in the 4 gospels. I have pointed out over and over that our Lord’s earthly ministry was to Israel and it was about the coming earthly kingdom promised to Israel in the Old Testament. The gospel of the grace of God is found in Paul’s epistles:

1 Cor. 15:1-4 The gospel by which you are S-A-V-E-D.
Ephesians 1:13 Upon hearing and believing this gospel you are saved and sealed.
Col. 2:10 Believers are “COMPLETE IN Him…” You can’t add to this completeness.
Col. 2:13 ALL of your trespasses have been forgiven.
Col. 2:14 He "blotted out the handwriting of ordinances which was against us.
Phil. 3:20 Believers now have our citizenship in heaven.
Eph. 1:3 We are blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places.
Eph. 1:6 We are accepted in the beloved.
Eph. 2:6 We have been raised up together and seated [positionly] in heavenly places in Christ.
Eph. 2:8,9 We have been saved by grace through faith - NOT OF WORKS - IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD.
Eph. 2:15 He has abolished in His Flesh the enemity, even the Law of Commandments
2 Cor 5:21 We have been made the righteousness of God [imputation] in Him.
All these things are DONE and there are so many more.
QC

Indeed. Catholics give a hearty to the above.

However, Catholics also take the Bible* in its entirety,* not just bits and pieces, to understand how salvation is wrought.

And, unless you believe in Universal Salvation–and that even the atheists are saved–then you understand that there is something that we must DO in order to be saved.

 

[stewstew03]

Are you presenting the above as the gospel by which man is saved? Putting us back under the Law? I pray not. The gospel of the grace of God is not found in the 4 gospels. I have pointed out over and over that our Lord’s earthly ministry was to Israel and it was about the coming earthly kingdom promised to Israel in the Old Testament. The gospel of the grace of God is found in Paul’s epistles:

1 Cor. 15:1-4 The gospel by which you are S-A-V-E-D.
Ephesians 1:13 Upon hearing and believing this gospel you are saved and sealed.
Col. 2:10 Believers are “COMPLETE IN Him…” You can’t add to this completeness.
Col. 2:13 ALL of your trespasses have been forgiven.
Col. 2:14 He "blotted out the handwriting of ordinances which was against us.
Phil. 3:20 Believers now have our citizenship in heaven.
Eph. 1:3 We are blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places.
Eph. 1:6 We are accepted in the beloved.
Eph. 2:6 We have been raised up together and seated [positionly] in heavenly places in Christ.
Eph. 2:8,9 We have been saved by grace through faith - NOT OF WORKS - IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD.
Eph. 2:15 He has abolished in His Flesh the enmity, even the Law of Commandments
2 Cor 5:21 We have been made the righteousness of God [imputation] in Him.
All these things are DONE and there are so many more.
QC

We are “free from the ritual and juridical observances of the Old Law” (CCC 1972), but not the natural moral law:

[BIBLEDRB]Matt. 5:17-19[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[St_Donatus]

This is absolutely an incorrect assertion, St. Donatus.

The Church has never proclaimed that anyone who “ignores these facts” is "invincibly ignorant.

If you disagree with me, please provide the Church document that declares this to be so.

That is the point. I do agree with you. Once one ‘ignores these facts’, they are NOT ‘invincibly ignorant’. But, as was said earlier, only God can determine who is ‘invincibly ignorant’ or not. My point is that we have a responsibility to help others to come under the umbrella of ‘Salvation through the Church’ so there is no question as to their outcome. Jesus gave his disciples the ‘Great Commission’ and we have a responsibility to help others. We can’t sit back and ignore that commission he gave us, hoping that others will get by with ‘invincible ignorance’. I need to follow Jesus example, and do what I can to get my wife to join me in being part of our holy mother Catholic Church.

 

[PRmerger]

That is the point. I do agree with you. Once one ‘ignores these facts’, they are NOT ‘invincibly ignorant’. But, as was said earlier, only God can determine who is ‘invincibly ignorant’ or not. My point is that we have a responsibility to help others to come under the umbrella of ‘Salvation through the Church’ so there is no question as to their outcome. Jesus gave his disciples the ‘Great Commission’ and we have a responsibility to help others. We can’t sit back and ignore that commission he gave us, hoping that others will get by with ‘invincible ignorance’. I need to follow Jesus example, and do what I can to get my wife to join me in being part of our holy mother Catholic Church.

 

[mac1234567]

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