Salvation outside the church

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Citizenfitz said:
If someone spells out, “apostacy” instead of “apostasy”, or “dialoge” rather than “dialogue”, then you don’t know what they mean?
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Yep. Eye shure due.

I betcha I can fine the words in the dictonry in the liberry.

peace
 
jim28 said:
I don’t understand. Are the Feenyphobics, (people who disagree with Fr. Feeney), schimatics, apostates and heretics? Or do you think the people who agree with Fr. Feeney, and Church teaching by the way, are schimatics, apostates and heretics?
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You’re new here jim28…and the fact that you don’t understand mgrfin is a good sign. I would advise that you not even try to understand him…it would be a waste of your time. 🙂

SFD
 
SFD said:
You’re new here jim28…and the fact that you don’t understand mgrfin is a good sign. I would advise that you not even try to understand him…it would be a waste of your time. 🙂

SFD
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Thanks for the heads up SFD. I kind of figured that out on the sedevacantism thread. I’m not sure I read one of his replies that were based on logic or fact and especially any that were based on Church Teaching.

Thanks
 
jim28 said:
I don’t understand. Are the Feenyphobics, (people who disagree with Fr. Feeney), schimatics, apostates and heretics? Or do you think the people who agree with Fr. Feeney, and Church teaching by the way, are schimatics, apostates and heretics?
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Absolutely, and btw, Fr. Feeney didn’t agree with Church teaching. He reconciled to the Church before he died. Before that he broke his vow of obedience to the Holy Father. He was also excommunicated. Some agreement with Church teaching!!!

peace
 
SFD said:
You’re new here jim28…and the fact that you don’t understand mgrfin is a good sign. I would advise that you not even try to understand him…it would be a waste of your time. 🙂

SFD
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Jim28 is new here? or is he just assuming a new name for one of your foot-soldiers?
 
mgrfin said:
Absolutely, and btw, Fr. Feeney didn’t agree with Church teaching. He reconciled to the Church before he died. Before that he broke his vow of obedience to the Holy Father. He was also excommunicated. Some agreement with Church teaching!!!

peace
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Fr. Feeney was excommunicated because he did not report to Rome. Not because of his beliefs. When he was summoned to Rome he was not given a reason why, which he was entitled to under Canon Law.
BTW he was reconciled with the Church without ever giving up his stance on EENS.

Thanks
 
jim28 said:
Fr. Feeney was excommunicated because he did not report to Rome. Not because of his beliefs. When he was summoned to Rome he was not given a reason why, which he was entitled to under Canon Law.
BTW he was reconciled with the Church without ever giving up his stance on EENS.

Thanks
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Easy to excommunicate him on his disobedience. As a Jesuit, he has a special vow of obedience to the Holy Father.

He was not given a reason why he was excommunicated? He certainly was, and it was obvious to every one.

Tell me the canons in the Code where Feeney was entitled to anything of the sort.

Feeney was not condemned for what he thought - he didn’t have to be, cause of his disobedience.

He hated the Jews, and he taught that salvation thru baptism of desire was ineffective, which is heretical.

He should have stuck with Fish on Friday. He was a writer, and a poet, not a theologian.

peace
 
Citizenfitz said:
Of course!

And didn’t you just defended the Latin Mass?
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I understand Latin, and the Latin Mass is for my own personal use. But, the vernacular is the thing. We should pray to God in the language we understand, not in the ‘language of the angels’ or in ‘God’s language’.

Even where I live in Southern California, English is still king. Faith comes by hearing, and if I can hear the word of God proclaimed in my own language, I believe further.

peace
 
mgrfin said:
I understand Latin, and the Latin Mass is for my own personal use. But, the vernacular is the thing. We should pray to God in the language we understand, not in the ‘language of the angels’ or in ‘God’s language’.
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What does this mean? For your own personal use? What is the origin of your orders?

SFD
 
SFD said:
What does this mean? For your own personal use? What is the origin of your orders?

SFD
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Don’t try to read anything into it. My focus on the Latin mass is for my own personal use. What don’t you understand by that?

I certainly have never been excommunicated, or suspected of heresy, schism or apostasy, and I walk to the beat of my own drum.

I just love to bait you.

What would you like to admit to: that I beat my wife, or berate my children?

peace
 
SFD said:
The condemnation of religious liberty found in Quanta cura is infallible. It has been contradicted.

Now go right ahead and make some goofy comments about it…don’t disappoint us…we expect no less from you.

SFD
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So, Quanta Cura is infallible? The Syllabus of Errors is infallible. Nonsense.

The document(s) was widely rejected by both Protestants and Catholics. Remember what it takes for a papal statement to be infallible? This document fails to meet those criteria.

Our own U.S. Constitution guarantees, no mandates, separation of Church and State.

You are not in favor of separation of church and state? I would hope you are.

Maybe some of your eeny people think it is infallible, but it was not. And maybe it is a prime example of when a statement of the Holy Father is not infallible.

peace
 
mgrfin said:
So, Quanta Cura is infallible? The Syllabus of Errors is infallible. Nonsense…You are not in favor of separation of church and state?
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Give me *Libertas *or give me death…for your reading enjoyment: 15…The end of all this it is not difficult to foresee, especially when society is in question. For, when once man is firmly persuaded that he is subject to no one, it follows that the efficient cause of the unity of civil society is not to be sought in any principle external to man, or superior to him, but simply in the free will of individuals; that the authority in the State comes from the people only; and that, just as every man’s individual reason is his only rule of life, so the collective reason of the community should be the supreme guide in the management of all public affairs. Hence the doctrine of the supremacy of the greater number, and that all right and all duty reside in the majority. But, from what has been said, it is clear that all this is in contradiction to reason. To refuse any bond of union between man and civil society, on the one hand, and God the Creator and consequently the supreme Law-giver, on the other, is plainly repugnant to the nature, not only of man, but of all created things; for, of necessity, all effects must in some proper way be connected with their cause; and it belongs to the perfection of every nature to contain itself within that sphere and grade which the order of nature has assigned to it, namely, that the lower should be subject and obedient to the higher…18. There are others, somewhat more moderate though not more consistent, who affirm that the morality of individuals is to be guided by the divine law, but not the morality of the State, for that in public affairs the commands of God may be passed over, and may be entirely disregarded in the framing of laws. Hence follows the fatal theory of the need of separation between Church and State. But the absurdity of such a position is manifest. Nature herself proclaims the necessity of the State providing means and opportunities whereby the community may be enabled to live properly, that is to say, according to the laws of God. For, since God is the source of all goodness and justice, it is absolutely ridiculous that the State should pay no attention to these laws or render them abortive by contrary enactments…
  • (cf Libertas 15, 18, Pope Leo XII, Vicar of Christ, 1888):coffeeread:*
I smell a hereschistasy brewing.
 
DustinsDad said:
Give me Libertas or give me death…for your reading enjoyment: 15…The end of all this it is not difficult to foresee, especially when society is in question. For, when once man is firmly persuaded that he is subject to no one, it follows that the efficient cause of the unity of civil society is not to be sought in any principle external to man, or superior to him, but simply in the free will of individuals; that the authority in the State comes from the people only; and that, just as every man’s individual reason is his only rule of life, so the collective reason of the community should be the supreme guide in the management of all public affairs. Hence the doctrine of the supremacy of the greater number, and that all right and all duty reside in the majority. But, from what has been said, it is clear that all this is in contradiction to reason. To refuse any bond of union between man and civil society, on the one hand, and God the Creator and consequently the supreme Law-giver, on the other, is plainly repugnant to the nature, not only of man, but of all created things; for, of necessity, all effects must in some proper way be connected with their cause; and it belongs to the perfection of every nature to contain itself within that sphere and grade which the order of nature has assigned to it, namely, that the lower should be subject and obedient to the higher…18. There are others, somewhat more moderate though not more consistent, who affirm that the morality of individuals is to be guided by the divine law, but not the morality of the State, for that in public affairs the commands of God may be passed over, and may be entirely disregarded in the framing of laws. Hence follows the fatal theory of the need of separation between Church and State. But the absurdity of such a position is manifest. Nature herself proclaims the necessity of the State providing means and opportunities whereby the community may be enabled to live properly, that is to say, according to the laws of God. For, since God is the source of all goodness and justice, it is absolutely ridiculous that the State should pay no attention to these laws or render them abortive by contrary enactments…
  • (cf Libertas 15, 18, Pope Leo XII, Vicar of Christ, 1888):coffeeread:*
I smell a hereschistasy brewing.
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So, your ‘allegiance’ to the Church requires you to reject separation of Church and State?

So, the Protestants would have it all over us, forcing our government to become a theocracy, or, that we Roman Catholics form a political allegiance to the Vatican?

I thought we resolved all of these issues in 1789.

Peace
 
mgrfin said:
…So, your ‘allegiance’ to the Church requires you to reject separation of Church and State?
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Of course.

It is tolerated for the time being - our very survival depends on this toleration it seems, unfortunately. But in principal it is an absurd damning notion and must be rejected.

And besides that - it’s not really in the Consitution of these United States. Not a significant matter, really, because truth is a pliable thing according to the Constitution - it is what the majority say it is. Hence, it’s inherent flaw.
mgrfin said:
…I thought we resolved all of these issues in 1789
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We?

'Twas a victory for the Evil One in 1789. As such, it will not last - doomed proposition from the get go so to speak. Choose your side wisely.

The Church has spoken clearly since:
 
DustinsDad said:
.

The Church has spoken clearly since:
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QUAS PRIMAS is a powerful encyclical. It explains exactly why the world is in such a sad state.

" for all men, whether collectively or individually, are under the dominion of Christ. In him is the salvation of the individual, in him is the salvation of society. “Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given to men whereby we must be saved.”

“With God and Jesus Christ,” we said, "excluded from political life, with authority derived not from God but from man, the very basis of that authority has been taken away, because the chief reason of the distinction between ruler and subject has been eliminated. The result is that human society is tottering to its fall, because it has no longer a secure and solid foundation
  1. When once men recognize, both in private and in public life, that Christ is King, society will at last receive the great blessings of real liberty, well-ordered discipline, peace and harmony"
QUAS PRIMAS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI
ON THE FEAST OF CHRIST THE KING
vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_11121925_quas-primas_en.html
  1. It would be a grave error, on the other hand, to say that Christ has no authority whatever in civil affairs, since, by virtue of the absolute empire over all creatures committed to him by the Father, all things are in his power
  2. Thus the empire of our Redeemer embraces all men. To use the words of Our immortal predecessor, Pope Leo XIII: “His empire includes not only Catholic nations, not only baptized persons who, though of right belonging to the Church, have been led astray by error, or have been cut off from her by schism, but also all those who are outside the Christian faith; so that truly the whole of mankind is subject to the power of Jesus Christ.”[28] Nor is there any difference in this matter between the individual and the family or the State; for all men, whether collectively or individually, are under the dominion of Christ. In him is the salvation of the individual, in him is the salvation of society. “Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given to men whereby we must be saved.”[29] He is the author of happiness and true prosperity for every man and for every nation. “For a nation is happy when its citizens are happy. What else is a nation but a number of men living in concord?”[30] If, therefore, the rulers of nations wish to preserve their authority, to promote and increase the prosperity of their countries, they will not neglect the public duty of reverence and obedience to the rule of Christ. What We said at the beginning of Our Pontificate concerning the decline of public authority, and the lack of respect for the same, is equally true at the present day. “With God and Jesus Christ,” we said, "excluded from political life, with authority derived not from God but from man, the very basis of that authority has been taken away, because the chief reason of the distinction between ruler and subject has been eliminated. The result is that human society is tottering to its fall, because it has no longer a secure and solid foundation
  3. When once men recognize, both in private and in public life, that Christ is King, society will at last receive the great blessings of real liberty, well-ordered discipline, peace and harmony
 
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