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TNMan
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I think the Eastern Orthodox would beg to differ.
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Jen7
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Well, first off, the sacraments in the Catholic Church (except for baptism) differ from what you’re most likely seeing in Protestant churches. Lutheran communion is not reception of the Living God’s Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. Their confession to God alone is not the Sacrament of Confession.
Now, all this said - what are we saying here? That God is some OCD monarch in the clouds who demands that his subjects fulfil his bizarre rituals or their not in his intimate circle? No. The Sacraments are the route he has given US whereby WE can be sure we’re “on the way” (Although never assured of having arrived! Unlike the “once saved always saved” Theology of some Protestants.)
Are OTHERS also “on the way” to intimate union with God (ie, heaven)? That is not for me to say. God knows. But as far as we on earth are concerned the way to union with him is through the sacraments.
Why is this? Because the sacraments are hoops we jump through? No. Because the sacraments are encounters with the living God. God guarantees we will intimately encounter him in each one, whether we “feel” we have done so or not. That’s why some old Catholic writing use the phrase ‘reception of the sacraments is a sign of predestination.’ Not because we need to clock in a certain number of receptions to “make it,” but because the sacraments ARE the closest thing to heaven on this earth & we are expressing our desire for union with God AND more importantly ARE ACTUALLY uniting with god through them!
Does that help?
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annad347
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what does this mean? tried looking it up but still not sure.
And it does sound like if you’re not Catholic, you’re not saved… even if you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
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Jen7
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It just means you greatly help to ensure your own salvation by receiving the sacraments.
The Church does NOT say you can’t be saved if you’re not Catholic. Just that Catholicism is the route he has revealed to us. I trust he saves many other people everyday!
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sunandstars
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Awesome summation.
Bravo!
Bravo!
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Gab123
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The Church STILL teaches that outside the Church there is no salvation. In order to be saved one has to be part of the body of a Christ in one way of another, and in some instances this includes baptism of desire, meaning that if someone through no fault of their own does not know the truth of Christ and His Church they can still be saved if they have a perfect contrition first their sins and strive to serve God with the grace they were given. Obviously a life without the sacraments will be much tougher to live and the pitfalls are many. That being said, Catholics have been given the treasures of faith and sanctifying grace in overflowing measures through the sacraments. Thus:
The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.-Luke 12:47-48
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annad347
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Still sounds like you’re saying if Im not Catholic Im not saved…that Im missing something to complete my salvation.
I dont know that just doesnt feel right…God willing if the feeing needs to change God will change it.
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Gab123
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The word Catholic simply means universal. Jesus founded One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church for all peoples of the earth, to teach the truth about salvation, and to to provide the spiritual nourishment for our earthly journey through this dark world, in order to be able to spiritually persevere until the end. As Jesus said, only those who persevere until the end will be saved.
The 7 Sacraments of the Church are visible signs that were instituted by Christ to give us sanctifying grace. The sacraments aid us in our journey, from the cradle to the grave, beginning with Baptism. Those outside the Church are lacking these fountains of grace for the journey. Thus the task of the Church is to evangelize the world. Those who reject the truth and choose to live in darkness reject Christ.
One has to realize that Jesus did not hand out Bibles, nor did the Bible fall out of the sky. Instead Jesus founded His Church to teach in His name throughout the ages until the end of human history. Thus we got the Bible from God through the Catholic Church. The Bible doesn’t tell us what books belong in the Bible; it was the Catholic Church who defined and assembled the Bible in the first place. There’s a reason why Jesus founded His Church.
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vsedriver
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that is correct. Doesn’t contradict the statement that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. Salvation comes from Jesus through his church.
The only thing that the Church has done to this statement is to expand the understanding of what it means to be a part of the Catholic Church.
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vsedriver
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think of it like this.
You are hungry. You are invited to the feast. You choose to eat celery because you think all you need is to eat something but don’t feel you need to eat anything else to stop being hungry.
Meanwhile Catholics are also hungry and also at the same feast. But they are eating double layer chocolate cake and baby back ribs smothered in heavenly BBQ sauce.
Both will no longer be hungry. But I’m eating at the Catholic table!
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TNMan
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Lutherans do teach that we receive the actual Body and Blood of our Lord.
Confession is either corporal or can be done individually.
Confession is either corporal or can be done individually.
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annad347
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No other church can perform or offer the 7 Sacraments?
- Baptism
- Confirmation
- Eucharist
- Penance
- Anointing the Sick
- Marriage
- Holy Orders
The person who translated the bible from Hebrew to a language everyone could understand was Catholic?
so even though I’m full… loved what I ate. Its wasn’t good enough because I didn’t eat from the Catholic table. That I missed out on something, my eating was lacking, because it wasn’t Catholic.
I just believe the Catholic is one part of the church that Jesus wants us to be part of.
I’m no way any type of scholar when it come to God, Jesus or the Bible. In fact I’m going to a class that is exploring, teaching the bible. It is a Catholic class so we are learning the Catholic bible. But just last week we talked about the translation of the bible… and I wish I remembered the name of the person who translated the bible from Hebrew to Greek, he was done to do it by order of some king. How he wasn’t really that familiar with the Jewish language so he had help of some women who were fluent in many languages, who never really got credit for it (from my understanding). Then his translations were rewritten by monks, by candle light, who sometimes didn’t understand what was written so they filled in the blanks… and it was translated to other languages… and time after time passed. Some people went back to the original scripture to correct some mistakes which bring us to the bible we have today. Then some people got together to decided which books belong, which books didn’t which is why we have two types bibles. (well maybe more but not sure) Catholic Bible and KJV… and I just believe something got lost in translation… maybe a little (but I could be wrong)
Bottom line, only faith in God is what helps know which bible is the word of God, which bible is telling us what God wants us to know, giving us the lessons, understanding and guidance to God He wants us to have. Faith and lot of prayers tell us which church is given to us by God…
So why is it if I’m Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, accept Him as my Lord and Savior, Repent my sins, give when I can, help those who I can, love my neighbors (still working on that) and live by the guidance of The Holy Spirit that God placed in me when I accepted Him… if I’m not Catholic I’m not saved?
Which tells me I’m saved only by the Catholic church?
You keep telling me if I’m not Catholic, I’m part of the church but not fully, that I’m missing something, and I don’t understand that part.
I’m sorry @Unique_name if I took this tread into a direction you never meant for it to go.
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Gab123
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Five of the seven sacraments require a valid priesthood, that is, a valid Apostolic succession. The sacraments in the Orthodox are valid, being that they do have Apostolic succession and a valid priesthood. Protestant groups have no Apostolic succession, thus no valid priesthood. The sacraments of baptism and holy matrimony do not require the priesthood.
The Catholic Church defined the Canon of Scripture- meaning, it dogmatically defined what books belong in the Bible. The Bible is not one big single book, but rather a collection of books and writings.
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Gab123
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The Holy Eucharist the reason to become Catholic.
I would encourage you to watch the series called The Journey Home, which interviews pastors from all different denominations explaining why they became Catholic. Here’s one show. They come out every week on EWTN
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annad347
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I just think its sad that I can do everything in my power to become a follower, devote my life to Jesus, do everything I read in the Bible, love Christ, be baptized in His name, confess my sins , live a holy Christian life, praise Jesus but when I die I will not be welcomed into the Kingdom of Heaven because I’m not Catholic… FYI not me specifically but any good Christian.
Didn’t know John the Baptist and Jesus Christ were both Catholic.
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Gab123
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It’s not about what we want it’s what Jesus wants. He founded the Church. Once we know the truth about the Church we are bound to join it. There’s a reason why you are on this site, as the Holy Spirit is leading you to the truth…
The problem is that there are so many false apostles teaching all kinds of false doctrines masquerading as Christian leading people astray into a false hope of salvation. And there’s always the risk of fooling ourselves into thinking we are safe. As for Baptism to be valid it must be made in the Name of The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit:
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit-Matt. 28:19
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Sirach2
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For the life of me, Anna, I cannot understand why you keep clinging to this erroneous belief, when many of us have shown you that “it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Romans 2:13
(This goes along with my second quotation, ""For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother.”)
Vs. 14 "Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Vs. 15 “They show that the *requirements of the law are written on their hearts.”
And again, this good comment from DiZent:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) DiZent:
Please rethink this in light of these scriptures, for the fact that you’re not Catholic is not a hindrance when you do all in your power to live God’s law that is written in your heart.
The Holy Spirit may lead you further into the fullness of our Catholic faith, but until you come into that belief, you are not doomed to die and not be able to enter heaven.
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annad347
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@Sirach2, I dont think most of my commets were meant for you. I liked the last commet you posted to me.
It was after that, that comments went in a very different direction. Giving the indications, if I wasn’t Catholic I was missing something in my salvation. That my faith in Jesus alone didnt save me but my commitment to a specific church.
I know that isnt true… I beieve you know that isn’t true… but others seem to think it is…and I dont know, that just seemed wrong.
@Sirach2 Thank you for understanding what I was asking, and for again pointing out a very important piece of scripture
It was after that, that comments went in a very different direction. Giving the indications, if I wasn’t Catholic I was missing something in my salvation. That my faith in Jesus alone didnt save me but my commitment to a specific church.
I know that isnt true… I beieve you know that isn’t true… but others seem to think it is…and I dont know, that just seemed wrong.
@Sirach2 Thank you for understanding what I was asking, and for again pointing out a very important piece of scripture
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annad347
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Yes what Jesus wants… not the specific church. Maybe The Holy Spirit is remind me why I left the Catholic church years ago and going back might not be what God wants. You unfortunately don’t know what The Holy Spirit is telling me.
Jesus warned us about that, so yes of course that’s true…I think Paul warned us about them as well in his Epistles letters
Exactly…not which specific church.
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Gab123
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Jesus founded the Catholic Church, so the Holy Spirit is not going to guide you away from the Catholic Church. Obviously there are spirits of deception that will always be misleading people away from the True Church. Bible-only Christianity is not Biblical; the Father of Protestantism was Martin Luther, a German ex-Catholic priest in the 16th century who took it upon himself to teach new doctrines and remove books from the Bible. Thus the reason why Protestant Bibles only have 66 books as opposed to the complete Bible which includes 73 books. Luther discarded the priesthood, denied the Communion of Saints, edited the Bible, and opened the doors to the myriad of different sects all teaching different doctrines.
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