Salvation requires belief in Mary's Perpetual VIRGINITY?

[AgnosTheist]

Only in your own mind.

The idea that a loving & attracted married couple tends to have sex, is only in my mind? my friend, get real.

Let’s look at your examples,

look at your elaboration of my examples. Two of God’s mightiest Chosen could not control their sexual urges. And then you would blindly agree with the wild assumption that Joseph, who was nowhere near as extraordinary as David & Solomon, would be able to hold himself from having sex with his own wife! That just doesnt compute. Unless Joseph was gay, or had become impotent by the Jesus was born.

Except that, Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit. Joseph knows this.

Except that Jews dont believe that Hashem espouses anybody. Such an idea is blasphemous to jews!

Joseph’s only reason for taking Mary into his home was to protect her, not so he could have sex with her.

They were engaged before Mary got pregnant. Dont you think he already had the honeymoon planned?

 

[jmcrae]

Hi

I think it is only a misconception of the half Catholics as stated by you and it is no essential requirement of the faith.

Thanks

Which faith? Yours (Islam) or ours (Catholicism)?

 

[MHalsey]

The idea that a loving & attracted married couple tends to have sex, is only in my mind? my friend, get real.

look at your elaboration of my examples. Two of God’s mightiest Chosen could not control their sexual urges. And then you would blindly agree with the wild assumption that Joseph, who was nowhere near as extraordinary as David & Solomon, would be able to hold himself from having sex with his own wife! That just doesnt compute. Unless Joseph was gay, or had become impotent by the Jesus was born.

Except that Jews dont believe that Hashem espouses anybody. Such an idea is blasphemous to jews!

They were engaged before Mary got pregnant. Dont you think he already had the honeymoon planned?

OK, now I’m beginning to think Manny was right. You are not here to understand Catholic teaching, you are here to insult. Adding you to my ignore list as of now.

Have fun Agnos. I’m tired of throwing pearls before swine.

 

[bankerdavid]

it wasnt jesus in the bible who said that mary was a perpetual virgin. this idea came from the religion of catholicism=teaching of Christ. it wasnt jesus in the bible who said that rejecting a teaching of the church is equal to rejecting him. this idea came from religion.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Matthew 1:24-25
And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. And he knew her not till she brought forth her first born son: and he called his name Jesus.

how do catholics explain the word ‘till’ there?

if the two had not had sex ever, then the author would have stopped short of saying “And he knew her not” PERIOD.

 

[AgnosTheist]

OK, now I’m beginning to think Manny was right. You are not here to understand Catholic teaching, you are here to insult. Adding you to my ignore list as of now.

Have fun Agnos. I’m tired of throwing pearls before swine.

you old folks are such quitters. yeah just give way to the new generation of reason & humour.

 

[look3467]

Jesus prayed:Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

We all are loved by the same God as one in Jesus.
Therefore, Jesus is the vehicle to the Father as stated to the Jews,Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

But because of that, we all have become divided instead of becoming as one.
One in spirit of Gods love and not as to mans understandings.
The options are that we may believe, practice anything we want in as long as love is demonstrated one to wards another and to worship God how we see fit.

Jesus has paid, past tense, the price for our eternal death, to free us up to do His will, without any restraints only those we put on ourselves.

Therefore, if you have love one to wards another, you are of God, born of His Spirit and living to that end.

I don’t condemn Islam, Catholics, protestants or any other religious beliefs, because it is not up to me to do so, but it is up to me to exercises Gods love!

You will never hear me speak out against any religious belief.
You will hear me give my views and if they help anybody have a better relationship with God, then I will joy with them.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[wanner47]

Matthew 1:24-25
And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. And he knew her not till she brought forth her first born son: and he called his name Jesus.

how do catholics explain the word ‘till’ there?

if the two had not had sex ever, then the author would have stopped short of saying “And he knew her not” PERIOD.

That’s already been explained to you numerous times, in this thread and others.

And given that Mary was without original sin, and that Joseph was told BY AN ANGEL OF GOD to be celibate, it’s entirely possible, not to mention probable, that God gave them both the grace to remain chaste. Don’t you think so? Joseph and Mary weren’t two ordinary people. They were two extraordinary people with extraordinary abilities.

Moreover, as has been mentioned, it’s speculated that Joseph may have been an elderly widower with grown children; if so, he probably didn’t have much of a sex drive to begin with. And if Mary was a temple virgin whom he only married in order to safeguard her virginity, then it makes sense that he would not have any expectations in that way regardless.

 

[LilyM]

Matthew 1:24-25
And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. And he knew her not till she brought forth her first born son: and he called his name Jesus.

how do catholics explain the word ‘till’ there?

if the two had not had sex ever, then the author would have stopped short of saying “And he knew her not” PERIOD.

2 Samuel 6:23 - “And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child till the day of her death.”

Surely this means Michal had children AFTER she died - if she didn’t, then why didn’t the author just say ‘she had no child’ PERIOD.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Jesus prayed:Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

We all are loved by the same God as one in Jesus.
Therefore, Jesus is the vehicle to the Father as stated to the Jews,Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

But because of that, we all have become divided instead of becoming as one.
One in spirit of Gods love and not as to mans understandings.
The options are that we may believe, practice anything we want in as long as love is demonstrated one to wards another and to worship God how we see fit.

Jesus has paid, past tense, the price for our eternal death, to free us up to do His will, without any restraints only those we put on ourselves.

Therefore, if you have love one to wards another, you are of God, born of His Spirit and living to that end.

I don’t condemn Islam, Catholics, protestants or any other religious beliefs, because it is not up to me to do so, but it is up to me to exercises Gods love!

You will never hear me speak out against any religious belief.
You will hear me give my views and if they help anybody have a better relationship with God, then I will joy with them.

Peace>>>AJ

AJ.

This has nothing to do with the topic at all… Your point is?

 

[Mannyfit75]

OK, now I’m beginning to think Manny was right. You are not here to understand Catholic teaching, you are here to insult. Adding you to my ignore list as of now.

Have fun Agnos. I’m tired of throwing pearls before swine.

Agnos needs to read Theology of the Body and get sex out of his mind.

 

[AgnosTheist]

2 Samuel 6:23 - “And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child till the day of her death.”

Surely this means Michal had children AFTER she died - if she didn’t, then why didn’t the author just say ‘she had no child’ PERIOD.

Yeah I think that means she died on the same day she gave birth. Whats the problem?

 

[bengal_fan]

Joseph and Mary weren’t two ordinary people. They were **two extraordinary people **with extraordinary abilities.
.

here is where i have to disagree with you. they were ordinary people. he was a carpenter, she was somewhat of a peasant girl (nothing derogatory). that is part of the miracle, that God uses the ordinary to shame the extraordinary. he uses the weak to shame the strong, the foolish to shame the wise. they were ordinary people asked to do an extraordinary thing and the only way that happens is to rely on God.

 

[BrianH]

2 Samuel 6:23 - “And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child till the day of her death.”

Surely this means Michal had children AFTER she died - if she didn’t, then why didn’t the author just say ‘she had no child’ PERIOD.

The author of the Greek in the translation you are using was not inspired by God. You are quoting an English translation of a Greek translation of the Hebrew original. Surely you see the difference. A translation of the Hebrew original is fallible. Most Christians believe the authors of the NT, writing in Greek, were infallible. You cannot take a translation and give it the same significance as the original.

 

[wanner47]

here is where i have to disagree with you. they were ordinary people. he was a carpenter, she was somewhat of a peasant girl (nothing derogatory). that is part of the miracle, that God uses the ordinary to shame the extraordinary. he uses the weak to shame the strong, the foolish to shame the wise. they were ordinary people asked to do an extraordinary thing and the only way that happens is to rely on God.

They were ordinary people who acted in an extraordinary matter, then.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Yeah I think that means she died on the same day she gave birth. Whats the problem?

until doesn’t always mean "up to the time that "

Consider this passage from Hebrews 15:21-25

21 For by a man came death, and by a man the resurrection of the dead. 22 And as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But every one in his own order: the firstfruits Christ, then they that are of Christ, who have believed in his coming. 24 Afterwards the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God and the Father, when he shall have brought to nought all principality, and power, and virtue. 25 For he must reign, until he hath put all his enemies under his feet.

Does this passage mean that Jesus’ reign will last and will end when his enemies are subject to him? We know for a fact that Jesus’ reign is for all eternity.

 

[HailMary]

FYI, if you are a Catholic and you disagree that you MUST believe in Mary’s Perpetual Virginity, you are ***gravely ***wrong.

 

[bengal_fan]

They were ordinary people who acted in an extraordinary matter, then.

by the grace of God they acted in an extraordinary manner.

 

[Mannyfit75]

The author of the Greek in the translation you are using was not inspired by God. You are quoting an English translation of a Greek translation of the Hebrew original. Surely you see the difference. A translation of the Hebrew original is fallible. Most Christians believe the authors of the NT, writing in Greek, were infallible. You cannot take a translation and give it the same significance as the original.

The Greek translation was translated by Helenistic Jews who knew both Hebrew and Greek. The original manuscripts were in Hebrew from which they were translated from.

 

[Mannyfit75]

FYI, if you are a Catholic and you disagree that you MUST believe in Mary’s Perpetual Virginity, you are ***gravely ***wrong.

I agree. Those** 27 Catholics who disagree **find themselves lying to themselves.

It’s too bad they can’t return their vote…

When they go to Mass and make a profession of faith and say,

“We believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.” Since they deny part of the divine truth such as the** Perpetrual Virginity of Mary is not necessary for salvation**, they lied because they don’t believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Since this** Church believes **that Mary remain a virgin all her life.