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holy_wood
Guest
I don’t follow. I posted…
The gate in which I was referring was the womb of Mary.
No man shall be born of Mary after Christ birth.
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No man shall be born of Mary after Christ birth.
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bobzills
Guest
Salvation of an indvidual depends on the will of God, not on the number of people on this forum who are voting one way or another on a given issue.Thanks Genesis.
Anyone else? Right now catholics are 50/50 on the issue.
According to Cardinal Kapser, the Old Covenant is salfivic for the Jews and this belief concerning Mary is not mentioned in the Old Covenant. Further, the doctrine of no salvation outside the Church has been interpreted quite liberally, so that as far as I can see, the doctrine simply means that if a person is saved, then somehow, and in a way that is perhaps unknown to us now, the Church has been involved in the process. It does not mean that you have to be a Catholic in order to be saved.
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look3467
Guest
That is an application which you are entitled to make and which would fit your understanding.
What I was saying is that prior to Jesus thing were as they were, without any changes to the conditions which barred the door for any man, from entering heaven, and that only Jesus was found worthy to open and or shut the door to those conditions.
The truer sense of the truth would be what Jesus accomplished, rather than what you explained about Mary’s perpetual virginity.
To Catholics, that application is a must, for that is a church dogma, but to any non Catholic, Jesus is the center of all adoration.
Peace>>>AJ
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holy_wood
Guest
Fair enough, but just as Rev 12:1 can have multiple meanings so too can Ezekiel 44:2
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look3467
Guest
Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
My view and application: The sun or throne is placed in the Jews hands. The moon or the establishment of that throne by Christ’s blood is under their power. The twelve tribes recorded as sealed in revelation make up the crown.
Here it is, Jesus has submitted to the power of the Jewish High priests of which have the power to get Jesus crucified.
The the crown are the 12 tribes are sealed, meaning, their safe because they are doing Gods will in the process of God bring salvation to all mankind.
Ezekiel 44:2 is a prophecy of Jesus only having the power to open or close the door.
Please remember this, prophecy and or the words of Jesus prior to the cross are as if Jesus had not gone to the cross and the things remained as they were until Jesus went to the cross.
After that, all Prophecy about Him was fulfilled, and changes to what then was, are now new.
Heres one verse that might help understand that: Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Jesus died in my place, therefore, I am His friend.
Peace>>>AJ
My view and application: The sun or throne is placed in the Jews hands. The moon or the establishment of that throne by Christ’s blood is under their power. The twelve tribes recorded as sealed in revelation make up the crown.
Here it is, Jesus has submitted to the power of the Jewish High priests of which have the power to get Jesus crucified.
The the crown are the 12 tribes are sealed, meaning, their safe because they are doing Gods will in the process of God bring salvation to all mankind.
Ezekiel 44:2 is a prophecy of Jesus only having the power to open or close the door.
Please remember this, prophecy and or the words of Jesus prior to the cross are as if Jesus had not gone to the cross and the things remained as they were until Jesus went to the cross.
After that, all Prophecy about Him was fulfilled, and changes to what then was, are now new.
Heres one verse that might help understand that: Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Jesus died in my place, therefore, I am His friend.
Peace>>>AJ
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jmcrae
Guest
It’s very, very good that you are a friend of Jesus - but you could be His brother or sister, if you would only just take Mary for your mother.
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look3467
Guest
By Adam and Eve, we are all brothers and sisters of the earthly kind, but of the heavenly kind, only those who are born of God make up the brother and sisters in spirit.It’s very, very good that you are a friend of Jesus - but you could be His brother or sister, if you would only just take Mary for your mother.
We, of the heavenly kind, work to share our wealth with those who have no knowledge, limited knowledge and or are just plain stubborn, and that wealth being the joy, the peace and the rest we have in Jesus.
Compassion is what drives us in the love of God.
Peace>>>AJ
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
There is a story that Mary was his second wife and raises the possiblity that he was too old for such relations. If he had ED that would explain a lot. If you read the gospels you will see that Joseph disappears from the life of christ, thus it is possible that he died due to old age of natural causes.^ As a NON-christian I dont think the perpetual virginity is realistic, unless Joseph was gay. If you are a catholic, please answer the question. Thanks.
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LilyM
Guest
You can’t call yourself Christ’s brother or sister, of the heavenly kind, unless you take His mother for your own as well! After all, He didn’t deny Mary, His (almost) last thoughts on the cross were of her welfare and plcing her under John’s protection.
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Singinbeauty
Guest
Who’s my Father and who is Christ’s Father???
THAT makes us Christ’s brothers and sisters… Not Mary.
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HailMary
Guest
She who gave birth to the Head, must, consequently, give birth to the Body.
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LilyM
Guest
Never. Christ chose to come into this world having both a mother AND a Heavenly Father when he absolutely didn’t need to do so. He chose this deliberately and for a very good reason, as He did nothing without purpose or significance. He chose Mary because He knew that as weak human beings we frankly need all the help we can get. We NEED a spiritual mother to guide us towards our Heavenly Father. That motherly guide is Mary.
He chose to have both a mother and a Father, and moreover to be fully obedient and subject to her as well as to the Father (and there’s no incompatibility between the two). He intended us who are of His body to accept BOTH of them as our own. Either you accept His Father AND His mother as your own, and honour both of them as He did, or you’re not fully part of Him - and you’re disobeying the Commandment too.
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Singinbeauty
Guest
You give way too much credit to a mere human following God’s Holy Will…
God the Father adopted all of us into His Heavenly Kingdom… That makes me a sister of Christ. I am also Mary’s sister as she is a daughter of God also.
Ephesians 1:4-6 said:
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look3467
Guest
Physically, absolutely, spiritually, only God can birth us with His Spirit.
Thank you.
Peace>>>AJ
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HailMary
Guest
Why don’t you define what you mean by Physically?
1 Cor 12:27
Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
BODY OF CHRIST.
You said, physically, absolutely, you’ve just asserted my point. The Blessed Virgin Mary was the Mother of who? Of CHRIST, who is God. Therefore you are a child of Mary, by your relationship with Christ.
And, Scripture clearly shows this:
John 19:26
When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he said to his mother: Woman, behold thy son.
God Bless
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LilyM
Guest
And yet God chose to birth HIMSELF through Mary. You think we don’t need her through whom HE chose to give Himself to us? You think we need not become her children when it pleased Him to be so? Sounds like the servant making himself greater than the Master to me.
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peary
Guest
It is my understanding that Christ is the ONE mediator between God and humankind.
Does this negate the role of Mary as an immediate intercessor for us? Certainly not.
However, nowhere in the Church’s tradition or in the Bible has it ever been taught that our salvation requires belief or hinges on the belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity.
And Mary acknowledged her *own *salvation in Christ in her Magnificat in the book of Luke.
But her own immaculate conception assures us of her intercession in our own salvation. She is, after all, our spiritual mother in heaven, and, she loves us!
Does this negate the role of Mary as an immediate intercessor for us? Certainly not.
However, nowhere in the Church’s tradition or in the Bible has it ever been taught that our salvation requires belief or hinges on the belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity.
And Mary acknowledged her *own *salvation in Christ in her Magnificat in the book of Luke.
But her own immaculate conception assures us of her intercession in our own salvation. She is, after all, our spiritual mother in heaven, and, she loves us!
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LilyM
Guest
The Perpetual Virginity of Mary is a dogma, has been proclaimed as such in various Church councils and documents - in the CCC itself. It is one of THE four Marian dogmas - right alongside her being the Mother of God, the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption.
Every blessed dogma the Church proclaims is proclaimed precisely because it IS an essential facet of the faith, and all are equally necessary to our salvation. There aren’t ‘major’ and ‘minor’ dogmas or anything.
All are required belief and every one of 'em is pertinent enough that wilful disbelief of any one of 'em is a grave sin.
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peary
Guest
I did not interpret the question in that way. Most protestant churches do not believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary but they do believe in the Virgin Birth. Does that mean they are not saved? Remember, because of valid baptism, they too share in a life of grace and they too have the Catholic scriptures - the Bible. And again, Jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and humankind. Mary is our intercessor BECAUSE She too is our mother and mother of the Church. And because of her immaculate conception, she too shares in our salvation, but you can’t say that we are not saved because one or another does not accept (or understand) a dogma of the Catholic Church. I am here speaking of our separated brethren in the Lord.
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jmcrae
Guest
Brilliantly put!!
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