Salvation through christ church affiliation

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Strider:
I just spent twenty minutes, laboriously typing out the relevant passages from John 6, hit a wrong key and it all disappeared.
I don’t have time to do it again,so let me just suggest that you read John 6:35 - 71. In that span, Jesus claims six times that he is the “bread of life,” and we must, “eat his flesh and drink his blood.” His listeners, native Aramic speakers who would have fully understood what he was saying, “drew back and no longer went about with him.” Jn 6:66
Jesus does not correct himself or call them back. He really wants us to eat his flesh and drinik his blood; in fact, he requires it. We can on only do that in a Catholic Church, and it is required that we at least attend Mass in that Church on Sunday.
Yes, good works are required, but you can’t work yourself into heaven. Faith, the free gift from God, is necessary first, and it is faith that brings us to Mass and the Eucharist our Lord commanded us to do in rememberance of him. Then your works will be efficacious.
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I disagree. I absolutely think you can work your way into heaven. I actually think that’s the entire point. I think serving others is the best way to live the Two Great Commandments. Faith is important, but I think if you do God’s work, he’s not really interested in who gets credit.

I really don’t like the “eat the flesh and drink the blood” talk. I know it’s what’s written and it was thought to be literal, but again, it doesn’t make sense: if it’s to be taken literally, then bread is not flesh, wine is not blood, etc. It just sounds creepy to me.
 
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ReformedCatholic:
I absolutely think you can work your way into heaven…I really don’t like the “eat the flesh and drink the blood” talk. I know it’s what’s written and it was thought to be literal, but again, it doesn’t make sense: if it’s to be taken literally, then bread is not flesh, wine is not blood, etc. It just sounds creepy to me.
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To say that you can work your way to Heaven is heresy according to Catholic doctrine. Specifically, it’s the heresy of Pelagianism. Also, take the Real Presence debate somewhere else.
 
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NotWorthy:
Oh, but yes there is. Christ built a Church and He gave that Church the power to bind and loose! That’s authority! All throughout the OT, that was the authority equal to the rulers authority in the rulers absence. You see it in Joseph, and you see it many times in Israel.

So, until Christ comes again, He has left that authority with the Pope and the college of Bishops.

Notworthy

P.S. What about the authority I mentioned in posts 103 and 110
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I keep hearing this “bind and loose” term and it seems to be heavily relied on in terms of church authority. It seems to be interpreted accordingly, where it’s meaning is not entirely clear.

My argument with this however is that Christ is ever-present “where two or more are gathered…” so indeed the Ruler is “back.”
 
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ReformedCatholic:
I keep hearing this “bind and loose” term and it seems to be heavily relied on in terms of church authority. It seems to be interpreted accordingly, where it’s meaning is not entirely clear.

My argument with this however is that Christ is ever-present “where two or more are gathered…” so indeed the Ruler is “back.”
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No, Christ put the authority of the Church higher than that of “two or three.”
 
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santaro75:
he gave us all the power to bind and loose.

**A Brother Who Sins Against You **

MT18 15"If your brother sins against you,**(“http://bibleresources.bible.com/pas...passage1=Matthew+18&version=31#fen-NIV-23741b”)] go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Code: 
18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.     19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."
Christ is King.
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Wow, that’s fascinating. The very passage I used to challenge the “bind and loose” authority of the church actually contains the terms “bind” and “loose” as applied to the authority of the individual. That’s really cool.
 
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santaro75:
I am not saying that confession is bad and not a holy thing, I just do not think it is the only way to have your sins forgiven and to recieve graces.
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How would you suggest we go about having our sins forgiven then?
 
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ReformedCatholic:
Wow, that’s fascinating. The very passage I used to challenge the “bind and loose” authority of the church actually contains the terms “bind” and “loose” as applied to the authority of the individual. That’s really cool.
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Yes…the individual APOSTLES!
 
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NotWorthy:
So… what you bound on earth is bound in heaven???

Let’s use your same logic on other passages. The sins that you forgive, they are forgiven?

It sounds like Christ doesn’t have all the authority. It sounds like WE ALL have authority.

Do you think that maybe when Christ was talking to the Apostles, maybe he was talking just to the Apostles?

Notworthy
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If that’s the case, then we don’t have to listen to anything in there, yes? Because the teachings only applied to them?

It sounds like Christ does have all the authority and invites us each to personally use His authority in our lives. Cool.
 
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ReformedCatholic:
Wow, that’s fascinating. The very passage I used to challenge the “bind and loose” authority of the church actually contains the terms “bind” and “loose” as applied to the authority of the individual. That’s really cool.
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Placing individuals on a pedestal leads to relativism.

“Trust in Yahweh with all your heart, and don’t lean on your own understanding.” (Proverbs 3:5)

“You shall not do as we are now doing; here, everyone does what seems right to himself…” (Deuteronomy 12:8, Judges 17:6, Judges 21:25)

“There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.” (Proverbs 16:25)

“…Teacher, we know that you are a truthful man and that you are not concerned with anyone’s opinion. You do not regard a person’s status but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth.” (Mark 12:14 also Matt. 22:16) Sorry, but your opinions don’t matter to God.

“But Peter and the Apostles answered and said, ‘We must obey God rather than men.’” (Acts 5:29)

“Obey your superiors and be subject to them, for they keep watch as having to render an account of your souls; so that they may do this with joy, and not with grief, for that would not be expedient for you.” (Hebrews 13:17)
 
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NotWorthy:
So… what you bound on earth is bound in heaven???

Let’s use your same logic on other passages. The sins that you forgive, they are forgiven?

It sounds like Christ doesn’t have all the authority. It sounds like WE ALL have authority.

Do you think that maybe when Christ was talking to the Apostles, maybe he was talking just to the Apostles?

Notworthy
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maybe he wasn’t just talking to the apostles here. sounds like he was talking to the regular folks hence the “take them to the church” in the verses preceeding it?
 
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santaro75:
maybe he wasn’t just talking to the apostles here. sounds like he was talking to the regular folks hence the “take them to the church” in the verses preceeding it?
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I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. I don’t see the connection of that quote with “talking to the regular folks.”
 
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ReformedCatholic:
I keep hearing this “bind and loose” term and it seems to be heavily relied on in terms of church authority. It seems to be interpreted accordingly, where it’s meaning is not entirely clear.
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The precedent is well established throughout the Old Testament, beginning with Joseph in Egypt, with the power to lock and unlock (I think). Eliakim was likewise authorized with the power to open and close (again, I think). There are several more incidences, but I’m feeling a little lazy tonight.

Notworthy
 
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JSmitty2005:
To say that you can work your way to Heaven is heresy according to Catholic doctrine. Specifically, it’s the heresy of Pelagianism. Also, take the Real Presence debate somewhere else.
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Heresy, pelagianism, blah blah blah. Label something so you can disregard any valid points it may make. Also, the real presence comment was in direct response to something referenced by a previous poster in regards to the topic thread.

Yes, and let’s also censor things we don’t want to hear, that’ll make us feel more secure and then we won’t have to think or pay any attention to the valid contradicions to our beliefs that others point out.
 
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ReformedCatholic:
Heresy, pelagianism, blah blah blah. Label something so you can disregard any valid points it may make.
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It really is heresy, though, and as such it doesn’t make any valid points.
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ReformedCatholic:
Also, the real presence comment was in direct response to something referenced by a previous poster in regards to the topic thread…Yes, and let’s also censor things we don’t want to hear, that’ll make us feel more secure and then we won’t have to think or pay any attention to the valid contradicions to our beliefs that others point out.
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:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
I’ve heard it all many times. I just thought it would be more suited in another thread specific to the topic. I was not aware that it was in direct response to another poster, so I apologize. Chill out, man. :o
 
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JSmitty2005:
How would you suggest we go about having our sins forgiven then?
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I would suggest you do what it takes. You know when you are forgiven, no one can tell you that.
 
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JSmitty2005:
It really is heresy, though, and as such it doesn’t make any valid points.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
I’ve heard it all many times. I just thought it would be more suited in another thread specific to the topic. I was not aware that it was in direct response to another poster, so I apologize. Chill out, man. :o
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Okay, sorry, I took you the wrong way. My bad.
 
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