Salvation Through Mary?

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I think the idea is heretical, but apparently popes throughout history didn’t. Check out these quotes:

**The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: that we obtain everything through Mary. Sweet heart of Mary, be my salvation! **Pope Pius IX

**For, since it is the will of Divine Providence that we should have the God-Man through Mary, there is no other way for us to receive Christ except from her hands. **Pope Pius X

**He will not taste death forever who, in his dying moments, has recourse to the Blessed Virgin Mary. What will it cost you to save us? Has not Jesus placed in your hands all the treasures of His grace and mercy? You sit crowned as Queen at the right hand of your Son: your dominion reaches as far as the heavens, and to you are subject the earth and all creatures dwelling thereon. Your dominion reaches even down into the abyss of Hell, and you alone O Mary, save us from the hands of Satan. **Pope Pius XI

**Nothing comes to us except through the mediation of Mary, for such is the will of God. O Virgin Most Holy, no one abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; no one O Mother of God, attains salvation except through thee! Every one of the multitudes, therefore, whom the evil of calamitous circumstances has stolen away from Catholic unity, must be born again to Christ by that same Mother whom God has endowed with a never-failing fertility to bring forth a holy people. **Pope Leo XIII

**Mary, not one of thy devout servants has ever perished; may I, too, be saved! **Pope Benedict XV

I know that Mary points us to Jesus, but that’s NOT what these popes are saying.
 
These quotes are taken out of context. What was the original text of each of these quotes?
 
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MariaG:
These quotes are taken out of context. What was the original text of each of these quotes?
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Not sure. I found them here:
reachingcatholics.org/pastpopes.html

If they’re out of context PLEASE show me the real context and how it justifies them.
 
I’ll be glad to:) . It will take a little time to track down the oringinals. My guess without even going to the site you say is your source is completely anti-Catholic. Think Catholics need to be truly saved. I or others will gladly get back to you on this. You can search yourself at the site of our host www.catholic.com or I like www.monksofadoration.org

God Bless
 
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MariaG:
I’ll be glad to:) . It will take a little time to track down the oringinals. My guess without even going to the site you say is your source is completely anti-Catholic. Think Catholics need to be truly saved. I or others will gladly get back to you on this. You can search yourself at the site of our host www.catholic.com or I like www.monksofadoration.org

God Bless
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Oh yeah, the site is very anti-Catholic. Mary Ann Collins is an ex-nun.
 
So, are these things that the Church has defined, or are they from the private writings of these men?

Also, do you understand why there is such devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary? It is very much like being devoted to your spouse and kids or parents or siblings. In this case, we’re talking of a very important person (which is a huge understatement). She is a great help, and the mother of our Lord, and in keeping with the 10 commandments, Jesus honors his mother. In following with the Davidic tradition, the queen is the king’s mother, not his wife, and the king does not deny her requests. Devotion to Mary is a wonderful thing because she does care, and she does lead people back to her son, let me tell you!
 
It is the Passion and Death of Jesus which redeems the rest of us from sin that preserved Our Lady from ever being affected by Original Sin because she was to be the Mother of God.
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This is an example of the beginning of writing on Mary by Pope Pius IX. It starts off stating, okay all of this is possible because of Jesus. A then starts talking about how great Mary is, but it is understood that Mary is great only because of Jesus.

This actually is not the one you quoted:o . But I will keep looking, I just knew you were still hanging around(?) so I wanted to get back quickly!
 
What these popes are saying is that without Mary’s “yes” salvation would never have been possible. Christ would not have come into the world had Mary refused the archangel.

Mary sits enthroned in heaven as our intercessor. Scripture backs up intercessory prayer in several places and there are threads on that. Additionally Sacred Scripture tells us to “Honor thy father and mother” Christ’s mother is Mary, and anything that she would present to her son on our behalf will be answered by him.
 
Totus Tuus:
So, are these things that the Church has defined, or are they from the private writings of these men?

Also, do you understand why there is such devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary? It is very much like being devoted to your spouse and kids or parents or siblings. In this case, we’re talking of a very important person (which is a huge understatement). She is a great help, and the mother of our Lord, and in keeping with the 10 commandments, Jesus honors his mother. In following with the Davidic tradition, the queen is the king’s mother, not his wife, and the king does not deny her requests. Devotion to Mary is a wonderful thing because she does care, and she does lead people back to her son, let me tell you!
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I’ve got no problem with what you’re saying, but Mary is NOT our salvation. I know you’re saying Mary leads us to Jesus, but she doesn’t do the work of Jesus!
 
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Juxtaposer:
Oh yeah, the site is very anti-Catholic.
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Am I misreading the above post? Does it refer to the link you gave us, reachingcatholics.org/pastpopes.html, which is totally anti-Catholic. Anyone who can read can see that, considering the very next lines after your quotes are: To summarize, Roman Pontiffs throughout history have shut off the kingdom of heaven from men by proclaiming a false gospel. These destructive heresies have sent millions to their graves with a false hope.

Geez, I am so fortunate to be Catholic. And most Catholics here I would think feel pretty much the same. I’m still surprised when someone thinks we need to be saved from the one true Church–as given to us by Jesus Christ himself. I’ll keep praying for non-Catholic Christians to see the truth.

JELane
 
Really, isn’t this carrying the Mary bit a little too far. Honor and revere Mary as the Mother of Jesus by all means. However this latest nonsense of co-redemptrix and fourth member of the Trinity is making Jesus a second class citizen.
 
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hermit:
Really, isn’t this carrying the Mary bit a little too far. Honor and revere Mary as the Mother of Jesus by all means. However this latest nonsense of co-redemptrix and fourth member of the Trinity is making Jesus a second class citizen.
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With respect to “fourth member of the the Trinity”, I believe you are right. - Because it is not a teaching of the Church as far as I know.
If “co-redemptrix” is understood properly it is just another name for the role Mary played, and isn’t new teaching.
 
This is a tricky thing and we must approach it with the greatest of care. I want to state first that twhat I am about to say is only my “opinion” and not dogmatic church teaching to my knowledge. We know that one of the titles given to the blessed mother is “Spouse of the Holy Spirit” because of the Spirit overshadowing her at the conception of our Lord. “Overshadow” is marital language and the most intimate of terms. we know for fact that she was created by God to bring the Savior into the world so that all men could be saved and so I believe it is fair (some will disagree) to call her (Co-redeemer) partnering with God to bring about salvation. With that she can rightly be called “Mother of God” and “Mother of the Church” not that she created the church or God but God created her to partner with Him in redemption.

Perhaps there is a something that is hidden from our sight in her vocation to bring souls to Jesus. Perhaps, and I repeat perhaps she still partners with the Holy Spirit with each and every conversion to bring us the merits of her Son who won us salvation by His precious blood. Perhaps even as Protetstants ( I had a powerful conversion experience) she is used. I was thinking about the book of Esther one day after reading it and pondering the similarities between the Blessed Mother and Esther and I dawned on me that Esthers name means 'hidden"…much like the Mother is to most of us who were Protetstant. Did she partner with the Holy Spirirt to bring us to Jesus even when we were not aware? This is just an idea but let me know what you think.
 
So you’re all telling me that salvation through Mary is not doctrine, and therefore, has never been taught? Well, that’s good to hear, but these quotes would suggest otherwise. Unless, that is, they’ve been taken that far out of context. I can’t wait to see the whole thing.
 
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hermit:
Really, isn’t this carrying the Mary bit a little too far. Honor and revere Mary as the Mother of Jesus by all means. However this latest nonsense of co-redemptrix and fourth member of the Trinity is making Jesus a second class citizen.
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It’s not quite cricket to put the concept of co-redemptrix and “fourth person” together. “Fourth person” is right out, no ifs ands or buts.

But we use “co-” words in two senses. When two diverse groups come together to to discuss something, or to cooperate on a certain initiative, there will often be “co-chairmen” of the group. Each person has the authority of a chairman. That is NOT the sense of co-redemptrix.

I used to fly for a living (navigator on C-130s in the RCAF, when there was such an animal), and up front sat a pilot and a co-pilot. Each was a qualified pilot, but the one called “pilot” was the aircraft commander, and the one called “co-pilot” cooperated with the aircraft commander in the flying of the aircraft. Mary was that kind of “co-”.

Remember her last recorded words in Holy Scripture, when she told the servants at the wedding at Cana “Do whatever He [Jesus, her son] tells you.”

Blessings

Gerry
 
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hermit:
Really, isn’t this carrying the Mary bit a little too far. Honor and revere Mary as the Mother of Jesus by all means. However this latest nonsense of co-redemptrix and fourth member of the Trinity is making Jesus a second class citizen.
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It’s not making Jesus a second class citizen if for one,*** He created her from the foundation of the world to give birth to Him fair to say?*** Who gets the glory?

Next, I think we fail to understand that the flesh and blood that bring us the rewards of eternal salvation were a part of his mother…sounds like co-redemption to me wouldn’t you say? Again, who brought all of this about, Jesus being God and all? Jesus did!

He gives Mary a part to play in salvation history and a great part I might add. And on a smaller scale we are also partnering with Him to bring about His glorious return correct? Some of these things take some meditation but are not unreasonable when though out. Peace
 
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Juxtaposer:
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I know that Mary points us to Jesus, but that’s NOT what these popes are saying.
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You said so; but the popes you quoted DID say that Mary points us to Jesus. Notice the recurring theme? keyword: “through”?

Mary, being great and having the power to distribute all graces from God to us, is so because God wills it, because God grants her the power to do so. Mary does not stand alone, she is with God! Is this a concept so hard to understand? Once we grasp this (that all that is Mary’s is God’s) we can see past the “shorthand”-way of speech of Marian devotees.

Mary is the mediatrix of all graces – graces necessary for man’s salvation included. Hence, Mary… be my salvation!

In Christus via Maria,
S4ntA.
 
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hermit:
Really, isn’t this carrying the Mary bit a little too far. Honor and revere Mary as the Mother of Jesus by all means. However this latest nonsense of co-redemptrix and fourth member of the Trinity is making Jesus a second class citizen.
Click to expand...
Mary as co-redemptrix IS being considered, but Mary as a fourth member of the Trinity is not and cannot. Where’d you get that?
 
The thread referred to by Brian has its best posts on 13,16,17 and 60.

I had the same trouble finding the source document for these quotes as people do on the other thread. If you type in the Pope along with key words you get anti-catholic sites but still no mention of the **source **of what the words were taken from. And if you just type in the pope’s name, there are way too many documents to go throug to find a few words within them. I did look for Pope Pius IX as well as Pope Benedict XV. I did not find any words they had written that were even close. However, if they did say them, context is everything and in every document written about Mary I have ever read, it always starts off telling us that it is only because of JESUS that Mary is anything.

God Bless
 
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