Salvation Through Mary?

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I believe you can gain salvation through Mary:

Jesus came into the world through Mary;

Mary leads us ALWAYS to Jesus;

Jesus is my salvation;

I have a simple mind, but kinda makes sense to me.

Through Mary to Jesus đź‘Ť
 
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mkw:
I believe you can gain salvation through Mary:

Jesus came into the world through Mary;

Mary leads us ALWAYS to Jesus;

Jesus is my salvation;

I have a simple mind, but kinda makes sense to me.

Through Mary to Jesus đź‘Ť
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Ok. That’s cool, but what about all this stuff about Mary distributing graces and what have you? What grace does Mary distribute and why isn’t God doing it directly?
 
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Juxtaposer:
Ok. That’s cool, but what about all this stuff about Mary distributing graces and what have you? What grace does Mary distribute and why isn’t God doing it directly?
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In response to this comment brother I will ask a question with a question: When God chose to be born of a woman, why did he do it that way instead of just snapping His fingers and getting the work as quickly as possible? Psss…(whisper) I have a hunch that he wanted to include his creatures in His greatest act;)
 
Michael Howard:
In response to this comment brother I will ask a question with a question: When God chose to be born of a woman, why did he do it that way instead of just snapping His fingers and getting the work as quickly as possible? Psss…(whisper) I have a hunch that he wanted to include his creatures in His greatest act;)
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Fine, He wanted to include His creatures. This doesn’t mean that Mary disstributes grace. It just shows how much He loves us.
 
Well…God chose her to distribute grace to the world the first time (through her) by giving birth to “Emmanuel”, what’s wrong with Christ honoring His mother by using her as the perfect vessel to give grace to the world (by the merits of her Son) & bring His sons and daughters back home to Him? Read the book of Esther with an open heart and you will see her role in the end. It’s beyond our wildest dreams brother. Again…the seed of the Woman will crush the head of the serpant. Anyway you slice the pie she has a part to play friend;)
 
Michael Howard:
Well…God chose her to distribute grace to the world the first time (through her) by giving birth to “Emmanuel”, what’s wrong with Christ honoring His mother by using her as the perfect vessel to give grace to the world (by the merits of her Son) & bring His sons and daughters back home to Him? Read the book of Esther with an open heart and you will see her role in the end. It’s beyond our wildest dreams brother. Again…the seed of the Woman will crush the head of the serpant. Anyway you slice the pie she has a part to play friend;)
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Yes, she helped bring grace into the world initially, but I thnk the Holy Spirit had a little something to do with that. What grace would you say she disstributes today?
 
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Juxtaposer:
Yes, she helped bring grace into the world initially, but I thnk the Holy Spirit had a little something to do with that. What grace would you say she disstributes today?
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everything, Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix of **all ** graces is a doctrine, though not yet infallibly defined as a dogma (there’s a movement to promote this happening). God’s graces passing through the hands of Mary will be all the more sweeter to souls who ask for it through her! 👍
 
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Juxtaposer:
Yes, she helped bring grace into the world initially, but I thnk the Holy Spirit had a little something to do with that. What grace would you say she disstributes today?
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I think that is a fair question, but I would ask you first what you believe about Mary. For instance I believe she was assumed bodily into heaven by the power of Christ, that changes the way I think about her. I also believe that at conception she was preserved from sin. And on top of that I believe she was and is a perpetual virgin.

With that, here is what I believe about Mary and her vocation to the church. Jesus said He will come for a pure and spotless bride without stain. When Mary asks us to be devoted to her immaculate heart what is she really asking? She is saying that Christ dwells in her perfectly for her heart in a sense is a mystical garden that God is pleased to dwell in. Therefore she can fill you with virtue and purity like no creature can because she is the perfect model of purity and humilty in all of creation.

Yet all her strength and power rests on and is drawn from the merits of Christ. In other words she gives you through her purity powerful graces to (as Bush would say) stay the course. Like I said before, God could have done it all without a single creatures help, but He actually is more glorified when His humble creatures do His will!! That is where Mary’s power comes from, her complete humilty. And that is why the devil cannot touch her (Revelation 12)

So in essence she delivers virtue, purity, perfect love for Christ, untainted humilty and a whole host of other blessings to numerous to count! And her words to the devil are, “I am nothing, my Son is everything”…this is why she is so powerful.
Peace friend
 
This thread has strayed from salvation through Mary to grace through Mary. Let’s get beck on track. Would you agree with me then that salvation does not come through Mary, but she helps get us there by leading us to Jesus?
 
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Juxtaposer:
Yes, she helped bring grace into the world initially, but I thnk the Holy Spirit had a little something to do with that. What grace would you say she disstributes today?
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Juxtaposer:
Yes, she helped bring grace into the world initially, but I thnk the Holy Spirit had a little something to do with that. What grace would you say she disstributes today?
Click to expand...
I think that is a fair question, but I would ask you first what you believe about Mary. For instance I believe she was assumed bodily into heaven by the power of Christ, that changes the way I think about her. I also believe that at conception she was preserved from sin. And on top of that I believe she was and is a perpetual virgin.

With that, here is what I believe about Mary and her vocation to the church. Jesus said He will come for a pure and spotless bride without stain. When Mary asks us to be devoted to her immaculate heart what is she really asking? She is saying that Christ dwells in her perfectly for her heart in a sense is a mystical garden that God is pleased to dwell in. Therefore she can fill you with virtue and purity like no creature can because she is the perfect model of purity and humilty in all of creation.

Yet all her strength and power rests on and is drawn from the merits of Christ. In other words she gives you through her purity powerful graces to (as Bush would say) stay the course. Like I said before, God could have done it all without a single creatures help, but He actually is more glorified when His humble creatures do His will!! That is where Mary’s power comes from, her complete humilty. And that is why the devil cannot touch her (Revelation 12)

So in essence she delivers virtue, purity, perfect love for Christ, untainted humilty and a whole host of other blessings to numerous to count! And her words to the devil are, “I am nothing, my Son is everything”…this is why she is so powerful.
Peace friend
 
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mrS4ntA:
everything, Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix of **all ** graces is a doctrine, though not yet infallibly defined as a dogma (there’s a movement to promote this happening). God’s graces passing through the hands of Mary will be all the more sweeter to souls who ask for it through her! 👍
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Not yet infallibly defined?!?!

Do you know something the rest of the church doesn’t know?

One could say it has not yet been declared heretical and be just as close to the truth. No one can see the future. :whacky:

In the Theotokos,
 
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Hesychios:
One could say it has not yet been declared heretical and be just as close to the truth.
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LOL… Hesychios, you’re pretty funny.
 
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Juxtaposer:
This thread has strayed from salvation through Mary to grace through Mary. Let’s get beck on track. Would you agree with me then that salvation does not come through Mary, but she helps get us there by leading us to Jesus?
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Here’s what the cathecism has to say on the matter:

**she is our Mother in the order of grace **

967 By her complete adherence to the Father’s will, to his Son’s redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity. Thus she is a “preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church”; indeed, she is the “exemplary realization” (typus)510 of the Church.

968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."511

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512

970 "Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514

Hope these help a bit…
 
Basically what I’m getting out of that is the only way Mary gives us grace is through her intercession to Jesus, who in turn, answers our prayers. Therefore, it isn’t really Mary GIVING us the grace, but we received it because she interceeded for us. Am I right? I’m not Catholic if you coulnd’t tell.

…], "the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514

What exactly does that mean?
 
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Juxtaposer:
I think the idea is heretical, but apparently popes throughout history didn’t. Check out these quotes:

**The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: that we obtain everything through Mary. Sweet heart of Mary, be my salvation! **Pope Pius IX

**For, since it is the will of Divine Providence that we should have the God-Man through Mary, there is no other way for us to receive Christ except from her hands. **Pope Pius X

**He will not taste death forever who, in his dying moments, has recourse to the Blessed Virgin Mary. What will it cost you to save us? Has not Jesus placed in your hands all the treasures of His grace and mercy? You sit crowned as Queen at the right hand of your Son: your dominion reaches as far as the heavens, and to you are subject the earth and all creatures dwelling thereon. Your dominion reaches even down into the abyss of Hell, and you alone O Mary, save us from the hands of Satan. **Pope Pius XI

**Nothing comes to us except through the mediation of Mary, for such is the will of God. O Virgin Most Holy, no one abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; no one O Mother of God, attains salvation except through thee! Every one of the multitudes, therefore, whom the evil of calamitous circumstances has stolen away from Catholic unity, must be born again to Christ by that same Mother whom God has endowed with a never-failing fertility to bring forth a holy people. **Pope Leo XIII

**Mary, not one of thy devout servants has ever perished; may I, too, be saved! **Pope Benedict XV

I know that Mary points us to Jesus, but that’s NOT what these popes are saying.
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Well, its your personal opinion that the afformentioned Popes here are heretical as to The Church’s Mariuan teachings. I hope you don’t believe real mary devotion only began in Vatican II, and before that, all was heretical. Ummm, for a Catholic, the quolts you provide as per the popes are beutiful, for a protestant and fundamentalist one at that(any protestant which may read those quolts from those great Popes) they are heretical, but not for us catholics. After all, those Popes anmd the Present one: Pope John Paul II who is very devoted to the Blessed Mother, he re-crowned her at Fatima, he has KNELT many times in from of her sacred image to pray the Rosary(yes, an educated man with two doctorates can be devoted to Mary and Kneel to pray her Rosary), there is no excess. All the Saints have been very, very devoted to Mary, can anyone name one that in his or her writings does NOT demonstate a deep devotion to the Mother of God?
With Saint Bernard, the great Doctor of the Church I too say: "with regards to Mary, there is never to much devotion and prayer.
 
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misericordie:
With Saint Bernard, the great Doctor of the Church I too say: "with regards to Mary, there is never to much devotion and prayer.
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I hope you’d say the same about Jesus, Mary’s Lord.
 
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Juxtaposer:
Basically what I’m getting out of that is the only way Mary gives us grace is through her intercession to Jesus, who in turn, answers our prayers. Therefore, it isn’t really Mary GIVING us the grace, but we received it because she interceeded for us. Am I right? I’m not Catholic if you coulnd’t tell.

…], "the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514

What exactly does that mean?
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In a sense it’s semantics friend. Toward the end of the book of Jude (don’t have my bible near) the author speaks about "snatching people from the fire’ and that by doing this we save them. So…in one sense we save them not because we are God, but simply for the fact that we are allowing our selves to be used by Him. There are various parts of the Old covenant where the Lord actually says that the blood of souls who we refuse to turn from their wicked ways will be on our hands. So God takes our cooperation very seriously. Why? Because we are the instruments he has chosen to accomplish His will.

That is why there is reward and punishment. We all have a vocation to fill. So yes, as the church teaches all of Mary’s power and strength is drawn from the merits of Christ, but in another sense He has given her a special vocation to bring souls to Him, therefore we must also cooperate with her and the vocation Christ has given her to lead souls back to Jesus, make sense?

As far as your last question, "the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514
The Catholic church teaches that Christ is the only mediator between God and man, yet because he is the one true mediator He alone has the power to allow His creatures to participate in the work of salvation. Mary has been given a unique role, in giving birth to the Savior, and leading His sons and daughters back to him. Blessings
 
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hermit:
Really, isn’t this carrying the Mary bit a little too far. Honor and revere Mary as the Mother of Jesus by all means. However this latest nonsense of co-redemptrix and fourth member of the Trinity is making Jesus a second class citizen.
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What is according to you the real meaning of co-redemptrix?? Mary is in fact not only Mediatrix of all graces=as Vatican II said in Lumen Gentium, but rather, as many theologians have said she is the Co-Redemptrix. I hope the Pope proclaims this dogma, there are millions of signatures that have gone out to the pope on this and I have heard he will proclaim that dogma, but no one knows when. Many eminent theologians favor it. Here are a few: Cardinal Ratzinger, Cardinal Arinze’, Cardinal Gagnon of Canada, and also the late Luigi Cardianal Chiapi, O.P. who was the Pope’s persoanl theologian, and one of the drafters of the New Catechism. Many many others too. A great group supporting all this too is the VOX POPULI group.
And who wants to make Mary the 4th person of the trinity. That’s a hypothesis that many who despise any sort of Marian devotion promote to push her to the side. They believe Christ will get jeolous if we pray to His Mother. It is amazing how much the protestant ideas on Mary has made its way into certain sectors of the Catholic Church in the USA, certain Catholics here.
The Church in no way wants to make Mary the 4th person of the Trinity, but neither does she want mary thrown to the side a something which just gets in the way of God. That would be diabolical.
The OFFICIAL teachings of the Church on the Blessed Virgin Mary is found in a great way in the NEW Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Devotion to Mary=Catholic, non-devotion to Mary=non-catholic
 
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