Same-sex couple says priest denied them communion due to relationship

[Cider]

In reading the article, the one thing that is disappointing is that the priest called the woman via phone - on the day of her mother’s funeral rosary - to say that he would be denying communion to her. The timing is insensitive. She needed comforting during this time. The priest could have provided comfort during the funeral, and then made his comment to the woman a week later. In the article, the woman said she would never set foot in that church again. And why would she, as every time she would be reminded of the discomfort and rejection she felt during an emotional time in her life.

Well he found out about it because of statements in the newspaper. If the mother was having a funeral mass I do think it was better that he call the woman and tell her she can’t receive than to just wait and then deny her reception without explaining. And he certainly couldn’t just let it go and let her receive unworthily.

 

[pnewton]

Maybe in the end she and her partner will be happier at the other church that welcomes their relationship.

The sad thing is that happiness is fleeting. In the end, will she go to Heaven or Hell for eternity.

 

[HansTrappist]

fox4kc.com/2014/01/30/same-sex-couple-says-priest-denied-them-communion-due-to-relationship

Saint Thomas Aquinas:

"Given the sin of impiety through which they [the Romans] sinned against the divine nature [by idolatry], the punishment that led them to sin against their own nature followed… I say, therefore, that since they changed into lies [by idolatry] the truth about God, He brought them to ignominious passions, that is, to sins against nature; not that God led them to evil, but only that he abandoned them to evil…

"If all the sins of the flesh are worthy of condemnation because by them man allows himself to be dominated by that which he has of the animal nature, much more deserving of condemnation are the sins against nature by which man degrades his own animal nature…

"Man can sin against nature in two ways. First, when he sins against his specific rational nature, acting contrary to reason. In this sense, we can say that every sin is a sin against man’s nature, because it is against man’s right reason…

“Secondly, man sins against nature when he goes against his generic nature, that is to say, his animal nature. Now, it is evident that, in accord with natural order, the union of the sexes among animals is ordered towards conception. From this it follows that every sexual intercourse that cannot lead to conception is opposed to man’s animal nature.”

Saint Peter Damian:

"Truly, this vice is never to be compared with any other vice because it surpasses the enormity of all vices.… It defiles everything, stains everything, pollutes everything. And as for itself, it permits nothing pure, nothing clean, nothing other than filth.…

"The miserable flesh burns with the heat of lust; the cold mind trembles with the rancor of suspicion; and in the heart of the miserable man chaos boils like Tartarus [Hell]…. In fact, after this most poisonous serpent once sinks its fangs into the unhappy soul, sense is snatched away, memory is borne off, the sharpness of the mind is obscured. It becomes unmindful of God and even forgetful of itself. This plague undermines the foundation of faith, weakens the strength of hope, destroys the bond of charity; it takes away justice, subverts fortitude, banishes temperance, blunts the keenness of prudence.

“And what more should I say since it expels the whole host of the virtues from the chamber of the human heart and introduces every barbarous vice as if the bolts of the doors were pulled out.”

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Personally I’d rather that the Church started barring high profile people who clearly know better and are clearly and unrepentantly supporting moral evil on a grand school, i.e. Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden who are both strong supporters of abortion before barring people who have never been properly catechized.

 

[Corki]

Well, clearly there is no “right” to communion. Perhaps she didn’t realize that participation in church won’t atone for sin. Repentance and abstinence from further sin helps atone for sin.

Maybe in the end she and her partner will be happier at the other church that welcomes their relationship.

But she claims to be a Catholic in good standing. Part of being an adult Catholic in good standing is knowing what the Church teaches and doing one’s best to live it.

 

[Mark121359]

This story is troubling in so many ways. Many here are blaming poor catechesis, and that could very well be true. But you also have to consider that they may know full well what the Church teaches. But they don’t despair because they know they have a sympathetic ear of the vast majority of Catholics. A recent Quinnipiac University poll finds that American Catholics support same-sex marriage 60 - 31 percent, compared to 56 - 36 percent support among all U.S. adults. More devout Catholics, who attend religious services about once a week, support same- sex marriage 53 - 40 percent, while less observant Catholics support it 65 - 26 percent. Boy!..talk about disturbing! And equally disturbing was this at the end of the original OP’s article;

Parker and Martin say they have found another church that has welcomed them.

Welcomed what? Homosexual behavior? You see, I’m of the belief that the majority of Catholics would probably support these women without hesitation! And I’m also of the belief that these Catholics do know exactly what the Church teaches, and they just flat out refuse to accept
it! 52 percent of American Catholics believe Church leaders are out of touch with the views of Catholics in America today. That’s astounding! I believe like others have posted here, that poor catechesis has its role. But attitude plays an even bigger role. And this attitude comes from a secular society that has no need for God or His laws. And this attitude seems to have taken root in Catholics by and large today…

Peace, Mark

 

[gabanzo]

I think that there are many Catholics that receive the Eucharist in a state of sin. I’m not saying what this priest did was wrong. I think there should be some consistency to it. For example every politician that is pro choice or pro euthanasia should be refused the Eucharist. I don’t know of any that have been refused. Any heterosexual couple that is living together and are partners should also be refused(e.g. a friend of mine is divorced and living with her boyfriend, when she does go to mass she receives communion). I know many people in that situation. One Catholic cousin of mine told me that the Eucharist is a nice tradition. Imagine that! She hardly ever attends Mass but when she does she always receives the Eucharist. I doubt she ever goes to confession. I think the Church should judge everyone or assume that everyone is in a state of grace when receiving the Eucharist.

 

[gabanzo]

Personally I’d rather that the Church started barring high profile people who clearly know better and are clearly and unrepentantly supporting moral evil on a grand school, i.e. Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden who are both strong supporters of abortion before barring people who have never been properly catechized.

I think you are right but that may never happen.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Well, clearly there is no “right” to communion. Perhaps she didn’t realize that participation in church won’t atone for sin. Repentance and abstinence from further sin helps atone for sin.

Maybe in the end she and her partner will be happier at the other church that welcomes their relationship.

How about if they break it off and live chase lives instead? :yup:

 

[ProVobis]

I think that there are many Catholics that receive the Eucharist in a state of sin. I’m not saying what this priest did was wrong. I think there should be some consistency to it. For example every politician that is pro choice or pro euthanasia should be refused the Eucharist. I don’t know of any that have been refused. Any heterosexual couple that is living together and are partners should also be refused(e.g. a friend of mine is divorced and living with her boyfriend, when she does go to mass she receives communion). I know many people in that situation. One Catholic cousin of mine told me that the Eucharist is a nice tradition. Imagine that! She hardly ever attends Mass but when she does she always receives the Eucharist. I doubt she ever goes to confession. I think the Church should judge everyone or assume that everyone is in a state of grace when receiving the Eucharist.

It depends on the culture, it seems. I just returned from a Spanish Mass where not even half went to communion. Blocks of families and others just sit there at communion time. The smaller kids approached either the priest or the deacon for a blessing. The Church was packed and vibrant but communion was over in 5 minutes.

 

[Nacho45]

This story is troubling in so many ways. Many here are blaming poor catechesis, and that could very well be true. But you also have to consider that they may know full well what the Church teaches. But they don’t despair because they know they have a sympathetic ear of the vast majority of Catholics. A recent Quinnipiac University poll finds that American Catholics support same-sex marriage 60 - 31 percent, compared to 56 - 36 percent support among all U.S. adults. More devout Catholics, who attend religious services about once a week, support same- sex marriage 53 - 40 percent, while less observant Catholics support it 65 - 26 percent. Boy!..talk about disturbing! And equally disturbing was this at the end of the original OP’s article; Welcomed what? Homosexual behavior? You see, I’m of the belief that the majority of Catholics would probably support these women without hesitation! And I’m also of the belief that these Catholics do know exactly what the Church teaches, and they just flat out refuse to accept
it! 52 percent of American Catholics believe Church leaders are out of touch with the views of Catholics in America today. That’s astounding! I believe like others have posted here, that poor catechesis has its role. But attitude plays an even bigger role. And this attitude comes from a secular society that has no need for God or His laws. And this attitude seems to have taken root in Catholics by and large today…

Peace, Mark

I am sure this is what many believe, but the truth is many American Catholics are out of touch with the views of the Catholic Church.

 

[Nacho45]

How about if they break it off and live chase lives instead? :yup:

If and when this happens…but lets be honest, it probably will not. If they do; however, relations with the Church can be repaired if they are sincere.

 

[Nacho45]

I think you are right but that may never happen.

It is sad that you are probably right.

 

[Nacho45]

It depends on the culture, it seems. I just returned from a Spanish Mass where not even half went to communion. Blocks of families and others just sit there at communion time. The smaller kids approached either the priest or the deacon for a blessing. The Church was packed and vibrant but communion was over in 5 minutes.

If I do not make it to confession, I do not partake. Perhaps the people you are referring to feel the same way.

 

[Coatimundi]

I am not sure if anyone visited the parish website, but Fr Kneib is a youngster! I am not sure of his age, but he has a baby-face and was ordained in 2012. Here is a lengthy article about him finding his vocation
catholickey.org/2012/05/25/rev-benjamin-kneib-torn-by-call-to-service-new-priest-still-chose-the-few-and-the-proud/

As for this thread…

Any priest who takes such a public and unpopular stand, even though he is upholding the teachings of the Church, will be subjected to a lot of negative attention. A priest in that situation needs a lot of support from his bishop, from his fellow priests, and from ordinary Catholics. I wonder if Fr Kneib needs such support even more, given his youth and his freshness to the priesthood?

 

[ProVobis]

If I do not make it to confession, I do not partake. Perhaps the people you are referring to feel the same way.

I’ll bet they do. My upbringing by Polish priests convinced me that the optimal route was confession and communion. I feel most uneasy at English Masses where virtually everyone goes to communion, almost instinctively. But then I’m always accused of judging.

 

[1Samuel8]

Maybe the Church should take them to court for:

a) making a mockery of communion
b) intentionally and willfully violating the Sacrament of Communion
c) not confessing their sin during the 12 years of attendance, which means they intentionally withheld this information from the priest

…and I am certain I could think of a few others. Of course this will not happen, just as they would not win against the Church if they tried, but it would be an interesting thing so watch unfold.

Surely you jest. Take them to court? in which court of law???

Forgive me but I am quite certain that the “court of law” that is appropriate is up to God and God alone.

The very thought of the Church taking anybody to court seems borderline blasphemous to me. The implication that such matters should be adjudicated by arbitrary man-made clutters of rules and enforced by gend’armes is astonishing.

 

[Nacho45]

Surely you jest.

Jest? No. Why would I jest? (maybe a little)

Take them to court? in which court of law???

That depends on which country the incident occurs.

Forgive me but I am quite certain that the “court of law” that is appropriate is up to God and God alone.

Does this always go in the direction you seem to want this to go? If so, no more court action against the Church, yes? However, you are attempting to merge two different things into one.

The very thought of the Church taking anybody to court seems borderline blasphemous to me. The implication that such matters should be adjudicated by arbitrary man-made clutters of rules and enforced by gend’armes is astonishing.

Just how is this blasphemous? If someone damages Church property the Church calls the police which begins the entire process, yes? You are aware of the fact laws are designed to protect everyone, not just a few select people?

Of course, as I already pointed out, I very much doubt the Church would take such action as it can simply continue to deny unrepentant people living in willful sin the ability to receive the Eucharist, but whether you like it or not, it is always an option, especially considering we live in a “take them to court because they hurt my feelings” world.

Now, if I have missed something within the teachings of the Church, I am welcome to be provided the correction.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

But she claims to be a Catholic in good standing. Part of being an adult Catholic in good standing is knowing what the Church teaches and doing one’s best to live it.

So, what, maybe 5-10% of American Catholics are in good standing?

American catechesis is utterly abysmal

 

[Ms_Manners]

But she claims to be a Catholic in good standing. Part of being an adult Catholic in good standing is knowing what the Church teaches and doing one’s best to live it.

If she is unaware of her own lack of knowledge and understanding, then she might honestly think that she is a Catholic in good standing.
And maybe she was counting on the lack of knowledge and understanding in the general public as well. The story just would sound so good with a “Yup, I don’t care about some of the basics, but I want it and they should give it to me” title.

It depends on the culture, it seems. I just returned from a Spanish Mass where not even half went to communion. Blocks of families and others just sit there at communion time. The smaller kids approached either the priest or the deacon for a blessing. The Church was packed and vibrant but communion was over in 5 minutes.

If I do not make it to confession, I do not partake. Perhaps the people you are referring to feel the same way.

This is what we were also taught, that practically you can’t go to communion unless you’re fresh out of confession, because everyone does something during an average week.
(I see by some other threads as well, I had pretty strict teachers as a kid.)