Same sex marriage laws

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Does anyone avoid all sins? I used to think I needed to repent from homosexuality, but now I realise it’s not a big deal.

(not sure if anyone can hear me, but here goes)

Sins are evil. Some sins are more evil than others. A person sins by stealing an HD TV, but he also sins by murdering his mother. Obviously, one is more sinful than the other.

 

[KarenNC]

What two men feel for each other, or two women feel romantically, is not love. I would sa the same about a man and a woman together- infatuation does not equal love.

I agree that infatuation, whether between same sex or opposite sex couples, is not the same as the love upon which a successful marriage is built. As to whether people should be allowed to marry who are infatuated with each other, well, that happens all the time in the heterosexual community, so I don’t see a basis for denying same sex marriage on this criteria.

However, you appear to be at minimum strongly implying that same sex couples are incapable under any circumstances of experiencing the sort of love that heterosexual couples do. On what do you base this claim?

As to sexual relationships, I believe that sexual relations belong only in the context of a committed monogamous relationship between two adults who are ready, able and willing to accept all the possible consequences of their actions, including the physical, financial and the emotional and expect their relationship to be lifelong. Sex is not and should not be a casual thing. It is possible to be in a romantic relationship without having sexual relations until that level of commitment is reached by both parties. This applies to same and opposite sex couples.

Unfortunately, currently same sex couples are denied the opportunity to enter into a legally binding marriage in most areas, but there is the option in many Christian churches (though not Catholic, but Teen4Christ is not Catholic) for holy union commitment ceremonies. The commitment does not have to be legal for the parties involved to consider it binding, but the legal aspects do indeed add a great deal of support to maintaining the relationship.

 

[Spirithound]

Does anyone avoid all sins? I used to think I needed to repent from homosexuality, but now I realise it’s not a big deal.

We try to avoid sinning. One of my biggest crosses to bear is that I’m a pornography addict. Sometimes I fall, but I get back up, go to confession, and get reconciled to God.
So I repeat my question, does your quote mean that you agree homosexual activity is sinful? If it is even a little bit sinful, don’t you owe it to God to fight the temptation?

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

I agree that infatuation, whether between same sex or opposite sex couples, is not the same as the love upon which a successful marriage is built. As to whether people should be allowed to marry who are infatuated with each other, well, that happens all the time in the heterosexual community, so I don’t see a basis for denying same sex marriage on this criteria.

However, you appear to be at minimum strongly implying that same sex couples are incapable under any circumstances of experiencing the sort of love that heterosexual couples do. On what do you base this claim?

I’m not claiming that. I was actually complaining about society in general, that would consider romaintic love the sole criterion for marriage. Marriage is a casual thing in our culture. As soon as the initial infatuation starts to wear off, someone files for divorce.

Love in the most Chrsitian sense can form between any two people. Christian love is what is descibed in that famous Bible passage (love is patient, etc). Real, enduring love never gets a chance to form in marriage as we see it today.

 

[Teen4Christ]

We try to avoid sinning. One of my biggest crosses to bear is that I’m a pornography addict. Sometimes I fall, but I get back up, go to confession, and get reconciled to God.
So I repeat my question, does your quote mean that you agree homosexual activity is sinful? If it is even a little bit sinful, don’t you owe it to God to fight the temptation?

I tried to fight it and it made me feel even worse, I need to accept it.

 

[iamrefreshed]

As to sexual relationships, I believe that sexual relations belong only in the context of a committed monogamous relationship between two adults who are ready, able and willing to accept all the possible consequences of their actions, including the physical, financial and the emotional and expect their relationship to be lifelong. Sex is not and should not be a casual thing. It is possible to be in a romantic relationship without having sexual relations until that level of commitment is reached by both parties. This applies to same and opposite sex couples.

Then, with setting law aside, would you also agree that an incestuous relationship is deserving of those same rights?

I see no bar on that based on this criteria you proposed.

“Two adults who are who are ready, able and willing to accept all the possible consequences of their actions, including the physical, financial and the emotional and expect their relationship to be lifelong.”

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

I tried to fight it and it made me feel even worse, I need to accept it.

Sorry, but what do you need to accept–that you are attracted to people of the same sex or that you are attracted to people of the same sex and need to have sex with them?
TEEN:

My mom(who’s catholic) says she supports me,

Does she support that you want to have sex with someone of the same sex? Or is she supportive of you as a person, her child and points out to you that acting on your attraction to someone of the same sex is not right?

 

[Teen4Christ]

Sorry, but what do you need to accept–that you are attracted to people of the same sex or that you are attracted to people of the same sex and need to have sex with them?

Does she support that you want to have sex with someone of the same sex? Or is she supportive of you as a person, her child and points out to you that acting on your attraction to someone of the same sex is not right?

The 2nd one

Yeah…

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

The 2nd one

Yeah…

Sorry the 2nd one to both questions?

 

[Teen4Christ]

Sorry the 2nd one to both questions?

Yes

 

[KarenNC]

I’m not claiming that. I was actually complaining about society in general, that would consider romaintic love the sole criterion for marriage. Marriage is a casual thing in our culture. As soon as the initial infatuation starts to wear off, someone files for divorce.

Love in the most Chrsitian sense can form between any two people. Christian love is what is descibed in that famous Bible passage (love is patient, etc). Real, enduring love never gets a chance to form in marriage as we see it today.

Ah, I see your point more clearly. I agree that many in our society have come to view both sex and marriage as very casual. temporary things. However, I disagree that real, enduring love never gets a chance in marriage today. I think that the situation you describe, where a couple files for divorce when the initial infatuation wears off, probably accounts for many of the marriages that end early.

divorcemag.com/statistics/statsUS.shtml
The median length of first marriages that end in divorce is just shy of 8 years, but over half of marriages reach their 15th anniversary. That points to a heavy weighting of divorces in the first few years of marriage.

It does indeed take time, effort, maturity and commitment for the kind of love that makes for a lasting marriage, one that doesn’t look primarily for quick gratification or see one’s own interests and desires as paramount. That half of marriages make it to 15 years, and a third to 25 years, I believe shows that such love is indeed possible in marriage even in this society. I certainly see it in many of the couples we know.

Now whether we can say that the high divorce rate shows that people don’t have the same kind of love in marriage now as they used to, I am not prepared to say. There were many societal factors and pressures that existed to keep couples together and a different expectation of whether one would, could and, more importantly, should be able to expect to have that kind of love for one’s partner.

 

[KarenNC]

So you are united with us then, at least in telling Teen4Christ that he should wait until marriage before engaging in sexual relations, as opposed to his current search?

He has said he is looking for a boyfriend, but I hope that that does not mean he is merely looking for sexual relations. As I have said, I would strongly encourage that, yes, look for a supportive and meaningful relationship, but do not rush into a sexual one.

I see no reason not to expect that homosexual couples can be in a relationship without sex just as much as heterosexual couples can be in a relationship without sex (and yes, by that I mean all sex, not just no intercourse, given that there seems a new sophistry among young people of claiming that somehow oral sex is not “real sex”—it is).

 

[KarenNC]

Then, with setting law aside, would you also agree that an incestuous relationship is deserving of those same rights?

When and if the laws regarding the types of relationships you describe (brother/brother, sister/sister, etc) are set aside, we can talk further about them. At present, attempts to address such relationships in terms of same sex marriage between unrelated consenting adults are basically irrelevant as no one has proposed legalizing marriage between siblings.

 

[KarenNC]

So then you agree that it’s sinful. And like all sins, it should be avoided?

US civil marriage laws are not based on whether or not the people involved are engaged in sinful behavior according to the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church also deems remarriage by divorced couples as just as sinful, but that does not mean that such people may not have a civil marriage. It does mean that the Catholic Church is well within its rights to refuse to provide a sacramental marriage to such couples.

 

[goofyjim]

He has said he is looking for a boyfriend, but I hope that that does not mean he is merely looking for sexual relations. As I have said, I would strongly encourage that, yes, look for a supportive and meaningful relationship, but do not rush into a sexual one.

I see no reason not to expect that homosexual couples can be in a relationship without sex just as much as heterosexual couples can be in a relationship without sex (and yes, by that I mean all sex, not just no intercourse, given that there seems a new sophistry among young people of claiming that somehow oral sex is not “real sex”—it is).

If that is the case every relationship I am already in involves no sex. I am a son to my mother, a brother to my siblings, a friend to many friends. All of these are relationships and could be defined under these conditions as homosexual and heterosexual. But one should feel free to eventually settle down with one sexual partner outside of his own family, be it the same or opposite gender.

 

[KarenNC]

I tried to fight it and it made me feel even worse, I need to accept it.

One can accept that one is sexually attracted to the same sex (or the opposite sex) without having to go out and have sexual relations outside of a longterm committed monogamous adult relationship in order to prove it. There is much more to a person than his or her sexual orientation.

 

[Teen4Christ]

One can accept that one is sexually attracted to the same sex (or the opposite sex) without having to go out and have sexual relations outside of a longterm committed monogamous adult relationship in order to prove it. There is much more to a person than his or her sexual orientation.

Yes, I don’t plan on having sex with any boy right now, but I might fool around a bit.
*blushes

 

[iamrefreshed]

When and if the laws regarding the types of relationships you describe (brother/brother, sister/sister, etc) are set aside, we can talk further about them. At present, attempts to address such relationships in terms of same sex marriage between unrelated consenting adults are basically irrelevant as no one has proposed legalizing marriage between siblings.

That’s a bit of a cop out

There are plenty of threads where we discuss things that are presently illegal AND legal.

I think the fact is that this comparision makes very many proponents of SSM very uncomfortable as there is little they can point to to refute the same marriage rights for couples desiring an incestuous relationship.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

But one should feel free to eventually settle down with one sexual partner outside of his own family, be it the same or opposite gender.

Nobody is stopping them but then if they make this choice no one has to accept them either, nor does anybody have to think it is morally ok!

Goofyjim.
You are a homosexual (I gather), not sexually active from what I gather, why not?

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Yes, I don’t plan on having sex with any boy right now, but I might fool around a bit.
*blushes

And you want people to tell you they are ok with that

Life is full of choices. Becuase of a choice you make there will be consequences. Hope you can accept the consequences of your choices!